ASADA relied on 'vague' accounts - The Australian 27/12/13

[Whatsonswhat]

You mean the one that didn't even bother interviewing Robinson & Dank, the two men at the heart of all this?

Perhaps that's why I used the word extensive, rather than exhaustive.

 

[jenny61_99]

YES they did. I should have included that in my first post, the extension of contract was very much a message to the supporter base 'we are not abandoning him'.

We are not abandoning this man that has created this cluster **** in the first place. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Jade]

They didn't HAVE to pay him at all. Steven Trigg and Phil Harper were suspended and neither of them could be paid by the club.

WTF? You are privy to the details of Hird's contract?

They can just stop paying him because they see fit?

Christ this board...... the sky isn't blue anymore...... yeah, let's just break a contract because we'd like to.

 

[BigJoeD_]

You surely cannot be serious in that you're now looking to argue that there have been very few S0 prosecutions and hence it's ok to use.

What is wrong with you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not what I was saying at all.

I was stating that S0 was a contentious clause, due to its relative infancy in the code, among other things.

Perhaps read the context of the conversation before going off half cocked, eh?

 

[jenny61_99]

WTF? You are privy to the details of Hird's contract?

They can just stop paying him because they see fit?

Christ this board...... the sky isn't blue anymore...... yeah, let's just break a contract because we'd like to.

Can you explain to me how this is even remotely a penalty to him? ITS ONLY A PENALTY IF HE ACTUALLY SUFFERS FROM IT. An all expenses paid holiday and million dollars spending money does not qualify as a penalty in any shape or form in anyone's ****ing language.

How do you explain the fact that Steven Trigg, Phil Harper and Chris Connelly all had to forfeit their pay but James does not?

 

[nineteen eighty]

That's not what I was saying at all.

I was stating that S0 was a contentious clause, due to its relative infancy in the code, among other things.

Perhaps read the context of the conversation before going off half cocked, eh?

Agree that it's in its infancy but seems fairly clear cut to me in its applications.

I may have gone off half cocked but then again, it wouldn't be the HTB if one or two us from both sides don't fire up on mis-readings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jade]

We are not abandoning this man that has created this cluster **** in the first place. Makes perfect sense.

Geez mate.

You've gone from a quality poster that stands out on this board to something less in the space of two posts.

You assume Hird created this debacle without knowing the full facts. That (the assumption) is the major issue with this board.

 

[BigJoeD_]

How do you explain the fact that Steven Trigg, Phil Harper and Chris Connelly all had to forfeit their pay but James does not?

Perhaps the above need to improve their negotiation skills?

 

[Jade]

How do you explain the fact that Steven Trigg, Phil Harper and Chris Connelly all had to forfeit their pay but James does not?

Let's see, Steven Trigg, Phil Harper and Chris Connelly accepted they had done wrong?

Not offering comment on the innocence or guilt of any of those three - but I don't know the details of any of their contracts (or Hird's) - so how the hell would I know whey they are or are not paid.

Common sense tells me that if Hird is contracted, he gets paid unless he either chooses NOT to be paid, or a specific clause exists allowing Essendon to break that contract.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

If a player spilt their guts to ASADA their career would be over. No club would go near them. Footy clubs are extremely insular organisations as we all know, plus the average AFL career is somewhere around 4 years (I think) so it would be a massive risk to do it. The player might get a few paid interviews, but what after that? Even if they have a degree or trade to fall back on, they would still be known as a whistleblower and it normally doesn't turn out well for them.

And yet... Everyone on this board, including one who "liked" your post, jenny61_99, have excoriated the players for not doing that. Not sure how that is reconciled.

 

[DonsRule]

Can you explain to me how this is even remotely a penalty to him? ITS ONLY A PENALTY IF HE ACTUALLY SUFFERS FROM IT. An all expenses paid holiday and million dollars spending money does not qualify as a penalty in any shape or form in anyone's ******* language.

How do you explain the fact that Steven Trigg, Phil Harper and Chris Connelly all had to forfeit their pay but James does not?

Penalty if he's prefer to be coaching.

Wonder how this would have gone.

James Hird: Hi, Vlad, AFL commisions, Mr Fitzpatrick. I'll forgo my pay if I can coach next season?

AFL: That sounds acceptable James. We couldn't bare having you paid.

James Hird: Cool, I'll accept.


As for being railroaded.

That all depends on what went on behind closed doors. I'd be peeved at Hird personally, if the club clould close the door on AFL sanctions and he wouldn't be in on part of the deal, he isn't bigger than the club in that respect.

What is, AFL threatened Essendon's 2014 season (hypothetical of course) Do you think that is bullying Hird into line? You know enough the tactics the AFL uses behind closed doors with Adelaide. Vlad comments on Adelaide not co-operating like Essendon did.

My views are different to some, but, I'd say, if Hird was advised he had a good case against the AFL, and none of us could know one way or the other there, and he chose forgo it, to get the matter closed (re, above AFL sanctions) as long as he takes his contracted salary, I'm fine with it.

 

[neutralguy]

WTF? You are privy to the details of Hird's contract?

They can just stop paying him because they see fit?

Christ this board...... the sky isn't blue anymore...... yeah, let's just break a contract because we'd like to.

Calm down little buckaroo you will burst a blood vessel with all that faux outrage, need a cuddle little fella?

 

[coryne]

WTF? You are privy to the details of Hird's contract?

They can just stop paying him because they see fit?

Christ this board...... the sky isn't blue anymore...... yeah, let's just break a contract because we'd like to.

So Jade, what do you think will happen if IN are issued? Will Hird be given the boot? Will that be justified? And what about the contract extension you are defending, should that be paid out in full because that is his contract? You can bet your left nut that Hird wouldn't allow a clause to be written into the contract to state that he would void the contract if IN are handed out.

 

[jenny61_99]

Let's see, Steven Trigg, Phil Harper and Chris Connelly accepted they had done wrong?

Not offering comment on the innocence or guilt of any of those three - but I don't know the details of any of their contracts (or Hird's) - so how the hell would I know whey they are or are not paid.

Common sense tells me that if Hird is contracted, he gets paid unless he either chooses NOT to be paid, or a specific clause exists allowing Essendon to break that contract.

They all could not be paid as a part of their penalty handed down by the afl. But oh no, not Saint James.

If Hird had taken full responsibility for what happened under his watch as he proclaimed to do at the original press conference, if he'd stood down whilst awaiting the outcome - he would still be considered by most - not just bomber supporters - to be a man of integrity. There would be real compassion for him, I believe. But he has chosen to fight this by hiring spin doctors, by telling half truths and probably lies. And playing semantics. By demanding to be paid. FFS. As I said earlier, either he was complicit with what went down, or he was so incompetent to allow it to happen. Either way he should never have been given a contract extension and he should have been told to accept whatever punishment was handed to him with humility. Instead he has behaved like a spoilt brat believing that he, James Hird, is bigger than the game, and made most opposition supporters detest both him and the club. It could have been so different.

 

[coryne]

Let's see, Steven Trigg, Phil Harper and Chris Connelly accepted they had done wrong?

Not offering comment on the innocence or guilt of any of those three - but I don't know the details of any of their contracts (or Hird's) - so how the hell would I know whey they are or are not paid.

Common sense tells me that if Hird is contracted, he gets paid unless he either chooses NOT to be paid, or a specific clause exists allowing Essendon to break that contract.

How about a breach of the duty of care that Hird has towards HIS playing group, which has exposed them to experimental drugs (at best) and possibly PE drugs? Do you not think this breach of HIS duty of care to HIS players is enough to warrant a penalty during which he is ACTUALLY PENALIZED ???

 

[Jade]

and made most opposition supporters detest both him and the club. It could have been so different.

And yet most of you seem to believe that this particular part actually bothers us.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Wow, James Hird disliked by opposition supporters. Who would have thought?

 

[Jade]

How about a breach of the duty of care that Hird has towards HIS playing group, which has exposed them to experimental drugs (at best) and possibly PE drugs? Do you not think this breach of HIS duty of care to HIS players is enough to warrant a penalty during which he is ACTUALLY PENALIZED ???

I'm afraid you'll need a doping penalty for that to occur. As of right now no such penalty exists.

 

[jenny61_99]

Geez mate.

You've gone from a quality poster that stands out on this board to something less in the space of two posts.

You assume Hird created this debacle without knowing the full facts. That (the assumption) is the major issue with this board.

As I said, Hird was either complicit in the doping program or incompetent. As head coach he took full responsibility - that is until someone pointed out to him what that actually meant.

You are right, there is a lot of assumption on this board and that goes for BOTH sides. If evidence comes out that proves my perceptions wrong I will happily and humbly apologise.

 

[neutralguy]

lol touche, but seriously man I had a heart attack in January last year stress really isn't good for you. Calm down don't get upset it isn't worth it.

 

[Jade]

As I said, Hird was either complicit in the doping program or incompetent. As head coach he took full responsibility - that is until someone pointed out to him what that actually meant.

You are right, there is a lot of assumption on this board and that goes for BOTH sides. If evidence comes out that proves my perceptions wrong I will happily and humbly apologise.

I don't want your apology. Opinions are fine - my preference would be that you work hard to NOT assume where facts are not yet known.

 

[jenny61_99]

Wow, James Hird disliked by opposition supporters. Who would have thought?

Before this all happened I was a HUGE fan. Admired Hird tremendously. Thought his courage on field was something to be lauded. Never had an issue with Essendon either. Now? Well you know what I feel now.

 

[jenny61_99]

I don't want your apology. Opinions are fine - my preference would be that you work hard to NOT assume where facts are not yet known.

Yet you don't know the facts but make assumptions just like me. The difference is your assumption is based on hope, hope that your club wouldn't do these things.

 

[coryne]

I'm afraid you'll need a doping penalty for that to occur. As of right now no such penalty exists.

Thus the word IF. So I pose the question again IF IN are issues then what happens with Hird, his contract and his extension? Will you still be perfectly happy for Hird to be paid what somewhere between $2.25-$3 million for not coaching a game after he was involved in a "supplement" program (either directly encouraging it or not monitoring it correctly) which has lead to players being suspended and, as you put it, the "harshest penalties in the history of the AFL" being held against the EFC?

 

[Argy]

WTF? You are privy to the details of Hird's contract?

They can just stop paying him because they see fit?

Christ this board...... the sky isn't blue anymore...... yeah, let's just break a contract because we'd like to.

I'm not aware of what was in his contract, but in most employment contracts there is provision for dismissal for non-performance or poor behaviour.