List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

[Tex200]

Elite Kick , Amazing Speed , can play forward and midfield and he's only 19-20.

Sounds like he had some injury issues last year which will have stalled s development.

Automatic best 22?

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Sounds like he had some injury issues last year which will have stalled s development.

Automatic best 22?

I would say yes

oh and he is a prolific tackler!

 

[scoota10]

One. I would look at, is Shane Nelson from the Falcons in W.A.
if he was around, late in the Draft. Adelaide need LEG SPEED
Any Thoughts

 

[huludicidal]

He's an average defender who has had a good day v Darling, beat a young Patton but seriously he breaks even with the oppositions 3rd best tall forward normally and offers nothing going the other way.

I've said before the Gunston debacle that he lacks pace, lacks agility, has poor foot skills (doesn't get distance right), terrible handballs (accuracy and penetration), falls over a lot, poor tackler (despite the one game of career it was acceptable v Power).

So yeah he's been mediocre to average, let's see if we can actually get a 3rd tall with greater flexibility of potential opponents.

Or do you see Otten as Rutten's replacement?

Yes, I do.

A taller (yes, that's correct), more agile (wouldn't be hard) Rutten replacement. Does he have the strength of Rutten? Probably not. But the fact that he has well beaten blokes such as Darling and Patton (both monstrous humans) in the past suggests to me that strength is far from an issue. I also loved his work on Westhoff in the most recent Showdown. Westhoff is one of the very few opponents that has repeatedly gotten the best of Talia, and Otten took him to the cleaners that day. Wasn't on him for the entire game (due to Port's injuries), but he mauled him when they were opposed to each other. Apparently you missed that. He doesn't have the leadership skills of Rutten either, but that's something that simply can't be replaced right away.

The reason that Otten doesn't provide the run you clearly desire is because that is not his role in the side. His role is as a shutdown defender, which he performs very well most weeks.

Talia and Otten moving forward will be our first choice KPDs, and blokes like Hartigan, LT and potential new draftees will be fighting it out for the '3rd tall' role IMO.

As for the other stuff you posted, your distaste for all things Otten appears to be causing you to believe that any time Otten beats his opponent it's just a random 'good day' or that his opponent is 'young'.

I guess he had a lot of random good days and young opponents last year when he finished 5th in the B&F huh. Injury has cursed him in the early part of this season, but his form leading into the Hawks game was very good IMO.


Not much point in discussing this any further I don't think. You don't rate him. I do. We're not changing each other's minds.

We'll just have to see what happens with Otten next year and beyond. I think if he stays relatively injury free and gets a full preseason under his belt he might blossom into a genuine weapon KPD working alongside Talia.

 

[Thrill 30]

I'm a firm believer that it's a lot easier to train someone to be a defender (or a ruck) than it is a forward or a midfielder. Rarely do we see players/converts succeed playing forward especially as it's such an acquired skillset that takes years to build. It's not just about having the physical tools but so much about the mental side. You've got to create your own ball and opportunity in the forward line whereas down back you follow and feed off your opponent. I agree that Durdin's a bit of a natural in the ruck but at his size he just won't get away with it - doesn't have the jump or sheer athleticism of a Paddy Ryder or a Stefan Martin. I've observed Sam a lot when playing forward and it's just so clear that he doesn't have the forward IQ you need to be successful. If he is to make it as a forward it'd be the perennial frustration that gives flashes of brilliance without ever dominating. I actually see a bit of Liam Jones in Durdin as a forward. With Goddard it's a similar story, he's got the athleticism and size and granted he's a better forward than Durdin (by virtue of having a bigger body and better ability at ground level in my opinion) but he's still got no idea where to run or lead and looks like a headless chook. In Durdin's case he's got a natural read, run and jump at the ball and is an incredible pound for pound contested mark. His field kicking is superb and below the knees he's reasonable as well as having good sprint speed and agility. They're all skills that transfer to defence. He reads the ball so well so he'll have no issue neutralising contests - when he does get the ball he's not going to be a liability releasing from defence and he won't be turned around at ground level. He needs more bulk but that'll come. What's clear to me is that his game is very naturally suited for defence. What he lacks is a footy IQ and that's something that in defence can be covered as he's not needing to create opportunities for himself.

Goddard there's a bit of Sam Rowe in. He's got the athleticism and looks a natural but just makes clangers with ball in hand and can look like a headless chook. Goddard forward I think will be a bit like Rowe was forward. Down back (as much as I hate to admit it) Rowe's found a new career for himself and especially of late has been fantastic. Goddard given he's started earlier as a defender could reach similar heights as their skillsets are to an extent quite similar although down back I'd rate goddard as the more powerful offensive proposition. He's been a bit maligned this year because his performance forward has been pretty trashy but he's shown enough down back to indicate even if he doesn't pull it together forward there's a career for him.

I agree with regards to Wright. Clubs nowadays want their ruckman to impact the contested ball and create oppotunities like Mumford and Lobbe do. Of course there are rucks out there (our own Jacobs is a perfect example) who don't and still have good careers and personally I think Wright would probably be looking at playing a similar role as an AFL ruck. What Wright has is pace and agility that Jacobs doesn't as well as the best field kick and set shot from a 203cm+ bloke I've ever seen. Witts perhaps challenges him for field kicking but that's it. I actually think Witts might be a good comparison but Wright projects as better at the tap but slightly less natural around the ground. With all that said rucks are easy to find nowadays. There are always good ones around to trade for whereas dynasty forwards aren't as readily available which is why I'd play Wright forward. With his skillset he projects to me as a more consistent, advanced version of Kurt Tippett should he peak. And I think their ability in the ruck is somewhat similar - they've got the height but it just feels a little wrong. He mightn't make it but it's worth the punt because better versions of KT don't come around very often. Ottens is an okay comparison but Wright certainly leans more forward than Ottens.

I agree with your sentiments about Pickett. I think he's certainly closer to Leroy Jetta than Stephen Hill. I think you're underselling Garlett a little though. He's very dual sided - right or left he's going to hit targets. As an outside mid with pace and skills being dual sided is an absolute gift. Clubs are always looking for players in the Garlett/Pickett mold and there aren't many in this crop. A lot depends on how he tests at the combine but I think he could bolt into first round consideration.

As for Keitel he's a very likable player. Works hard, plays well back and forward and kicks goals. I'm not entirely sold on him yet and would like to see him play against some bigger bodies in the WAFL/reserves before the end of the season as I felt he lacked a bit of grunt.

Garlett and Pickett play together at South Freo and when there both at their best Picket is way more exciting than Garlett,you guys seen 3 games of Garlett in the Championships and his Best game was against Vic Country were he had 19 Disposals and against Vic Metro 13(ordinary) and 1st game against SA he had 13(ordinary) where Pickett got taken off in that game injured and and still had more posessions than Garlett,you obviously didnt see the SA game were Pickett was BOG and still had more to offer,he (Garlett)would struggle if he got tagged too,dont get me wrong , i think Garlett is agreat talent for I have seen him play for the last few years at South,but Picket is way more switched on than Garlett and Pickett is nothing like Leroy Jetta, when he makes it he will have way more impact than Leroy has.

 

[Team DJ]

Jack Hannath from Freo? Is 4th in line over there as a Ruck.
J Lyons for J Hannath (Maybe via a Vic Club so Lyons can go home).
Hannath would be second in line with us.

 

[Thrill 30]

Thanks for your efforts here Skippos, especially the vids are a great resource.

I would be happy with either of Pickett or Garlett, but I just feel we'll draft some vanilla tweener or another slow inside accumulator. We have overlooked the need for an outside executioner for so long I think we don't deem one necessary

Did you put the SA game in the footage for Pickett,Garlett is not even close to having a better attitude than Pickett, where do you guy's get your info from,I've seen these boy's play in the last few years,(not just the 18s Championship), I know who's the Better player and Better attitude and Pickett is miles more switched on than Garlett, Pickett has Days where he's blown players away offensively and Defensively and hes the first player in the team to be Tagged,Pickett knows what to expect at the next level, Garlett's not gonna to know what hit him.Hope you guys do draft Garlett and Pickett goes to a side that has Faith in and can teach him thing that he lacks because thats what AFL clubs do,dont forget that these boys are still 17 and have heaps of upside to their game especially Pickett.

 

[Thrill 30]

Thanks for your efforts here Skippos, especially the vids are a great resource.

I would be happy with either of Pickett or Garlett, but I just feel we'll draft some vanilla tweener or another slow inside accumulator. We have overlooked the need for an outside executioner for so long I think we don't deem one necessary

Cant compare Pickett and Garlett mate,Pickett is more switched on and a way better player.

 

[Thrill 30]

Skippos, loved the read of your appraisal of the popular draft picks ......can only concur with ALL your thoughts and reflects what i have previously posted.

Just some further comments regarding the top 10 :
1. absolutely agree that juniors playing roles are more natural playing that role at AFL. Durdin was a ruckman and they're trying to make a KPP of him at a late age ........history says that fails more times than succeeds. It's still an ok course for Durdin ....but as a top 3-5 in the draft, gee don't know about that.

2. I have said Wright lacks a bit of mongrel IF he is to be a ruckman ..........he may be ok as a forward / ruckman, or at 203 cm do clubs want a more nimble forward / ruck in the John Barnes mould?
Popular opinion is Wright is more a Ruckman / forward in which case he reminds more of a Brad Otten who really struggled early career.

3. Just on Pickett v Garlett ....watching the U18's Garlett was all class on his left foot ....neat kicking action, great pace and suits us perfectly, but is first round too early.
My opinion of Pickett is he looks like another Leroy Jetta to me ......highly rated junior with Elite speed and poor work ethic

Really struggling at this stage to lock a favourite in ......ask me last season and you'd say Goddard, but he's got critics this year .......is this just a poor year from Goddard?

My favourite ATS is Kytel ........Skippos what's your opinion of him?

Garlett better than Pickett,dont think so,dont just read up on the 18s champioships look into it more,why do you think Pickett is rated so highly even after the Championships.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Jack Hannath from Freo? Is 4th in line over there as a Ruck.
J Lyons for J Hannath (Maybe via a Vic Club so Lyons can go home).
Hannath would be second in line with us.

Would be a good 2nd ruck option

 

[Skippos]

Garlett and Pickett play together at South Freo and when there both at their best Picket is way more exciting than Garlett,you guys seen 3 games of Garlett in the Championships and his Best game was against Vic Country were he had 19 Disposals and against Vic Metro 13(ordinary) and 1st game against SA he had 13(ordinary) where Pickett got taken off in that game injured and and still had more posessions than Garlett,you obviously didnt see the SA game were Pickett was BOG and still had more to offer,he (Garlett)would struggle if he got tagged too,dont get me wrong , i think Garlett is agreat talent for I have seen him play for the last few years at South,but Picket is way more switched on than Garlett and Pickett is nothing like Leroy Jetta, when he makes it he will have way more impact than Leroy has.

Did you put the SA game in the footage for Pickett,Garlett is not even close to having a better attitude than Pickett, where do you guy's get your info from,I've seen these boy's play in the last few years,(not just the 18s Championship), I know who's the Better player and Better attitude and Pickett is miles more switched on than Garlett, Pickett has Days where he's blown players away offensively and Defensively and hes the first player in the team to be Tagged,Pickett knows what to expect at the next level, Garlett's not gonna to know what hit him.Hope you guys do draft Garlett and Pickett goes to a side that has Faith in and can teach him thing that he lacks because thats what AFL clubs do,dont forget that these boys are still 17 and have heaps of upside to their game especially Pickett.

Cant compare Pickett and Garlett mate,Pickett is more switched on and a way better player.

Garlett better than Pickett,dont think so,dont just read up on the 18s champioships look into it more,why do you think Pickett is rated so highly even after the Championships.

What is clear is that you are quite clearly a friend or family member of Pickett. Every year friends and family members sign up and either ask questions about their 'connection' or vehemently and blindly defend and talk them up. I'm assuming you're the latter.

Yes, Pickett had a fantastic game in WA v SA. His best game saw him get 21 touches. 21. That's his best. He isn't near enough a volume player due to work rate; as a pure outside he needs to be receiving the ball more to utilise his impact and he can't because he doesn't work.

Garlett works harder to win and receive the ball. But the main knock I have is something beyond the stat sheet. He just doesn't defend. It's not that he can't, it's that he won't. Somebody who refuses to buy in to team rules and directly lets the team down because they're 'lazy' isn't worth my time, no matter how good. I agree - there's probably a little more upside in Pickett. But despite that he's a front running, lazy kick chaser who even then doesn't work hard to chase his kicks.

 

[Bring back Bas]

Is Hannath any good?

 

[Matman23]

Really?

Because mine would be Angus Graham - and he is next in line at our club.

So where do you expect Vickery to play in the Adelaide team?

 

[WeeBlake]

I would be interested to know how many genuine outside mids we have drafted (not rookied) or traded for in the last 5 years. I can think of two- Smith, and Atkins.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Yes, I do.

A taller (yes, that's correct), more agile (wouldn't be hard) Rutten replacement. Does he have the strength of Rutten? Probably not. But the fact that he has well beaten blokes such as Darling and Patton (both monstrous humans) in the past suggests to me that strength is far from an issue. I also loved his work on Westhoff in the most recent Showdown. Westhoff is one of the very few opponents that has repeatedly gotten the best of Talia, and Otten took him to the cleaners that day. Wasn't on him for the entire game (due to Port's injuries), but he mauled him when they were opposed to each other. Apparently you missed that. He doesn't have the leadership skills of Rutten either, but that's something that simply can't be replaced right away.

The reason that Otten doesn't provide the run you clearly desire is because that is not his role in the side. His role is as a shutdown defender, which he performs very well most weeks.

Talia and Otten moving forward will be our first choice KPDs, and blokes like Hartigan, LT and potential new draftees will be fighting it out for the '3rd tall' role IMO.

As for the other stuff you posted, your distaste for all things Otten appears to be causing you to believe that any time Otten beats his opponent it's just a random 'good day' or that his opponent is 'young'.

I guess he had a lot of random good days and young opponents last year when he finished 5th in the B&F huh. Injury has cursed him in the early part of this season, but his form leading into the Hawks game was very good IMO.


Not much point in discussing this any further I don't think. You don't rate him. I do. We're not changing each other's minds.

We'll just have to see what happens with Otten next year and beyond. I think if he stays relatively injury free and gets a full preseason under his belt he might blossom into a genuine weapon KPD working alongside Talia.

So you know for sure that the coaches instruction to both Otto and Talia is to shutdown only?

I think you will find that all our defenders are instructed with the same philosophy that is that your primary role is to defend followed by having the courage and confidence to leave your man to create and attack

No defender in our side is instructed to be a shutdown player only and this is why Talia openly expresses that he is working hard on the offensive side of his game

Saying that Otto's role is purely as a shutdown player is simply not true

 

[Bailey01]

I would be interested to know how many genuine outside mids we have drafted (not rookied) or traded for in the last 5 years. I can think of two- Smith, and Atkins.

Knight?

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Yes, I do.

A taller (yes, that's correct), more agile (wouldn't be hard) Rutten replacement. Does he have the strength of Rutten? Probably not. But the fact that he has well beaten blokes such as Darling and Patton (both monstrous humans) in the past suggests to me that strength is far from an issue. I also loved his work on Westhoff in the most recent Showdown. Westhoff is one of the very few opponents that has repeatedly gotten the best of Talia, and Otten took him to the cleaners that day. Wasn't on him for the entire game (due to Port's injuries), but he mauled him when they were opposed to each other. Apparently you missed that. He doesn't have the leadership skills of Rutten either, but that's something that simply can't be replaced right away.

The reason that Otten doesn't provide the run you clearly desire is because that is not his role in the side. His role is as a shutdown defender, which he performs very well most weeks.

Talia and Otten moving forward will be our first choice KPDs, and blokes like Hartigan, LT and potential new draftees will be fighting it out for the '3rd tall' role IMO.

As for the other stuff you posted, your distaste for all things Otten appears to be causing you to believe that any time Otten beats his opponent it's just a random 'good day' or that his opponent is 'young'.

I guess he had a lot of random good days and young opponents last year when he finished 5th in the B&F huh. Injury has cursed him in the early part of this season, but his form leading into the Hawks game was very good IMO.


Not much point in discussing this any further I don't think. You don't rate him. I do. We're not changing each other's minds.

We'll just have to see what happens with Otten next year and beyond. I think if he stays relatively injury free and gets a full preseason under his belt he might blossom into a genuine weapon KPD working alongside Talia.

1) You're right, we'll agree to disagree
2) There's no way Otten took Westhoff to the cleaners and mauled him! Got easily beaten in at least 2 contested marks and poor goal kicking from easy angles cost Westhoff the honours.
3) He played a lot up forward/2R last year…not sure he got all those votes (in a crap year for Adelaide) as a lock down key defender!

 

[MyLittleSloaney]

Hearing more whispers about Phil Davis to Adelaide. Girlfriend lives here still and Phil's very tight with Danger.

Would probably have to cough up our first pick this year (#8 to #10) but I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, particularly if it would go a long way to keeping Danger at the Crows.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Hearing more whispers about Phil Davis to Adelaide. Girlfriend lives here still and Phil's very tight with Danger.

Would probably have to cough up our first pick this year (#8 to #10) but I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, particularly if it would go a long way to keeping Danger at the Crows.

I'm not against getting Davis back at all as it fills a need but no way would i give up our first pick this year.

 

[MRB37]

Hearing more whispers about Phil Davis to Adelaide. Girlfriend lives here still and Phil's very tight with Danger.

Would probably have to cough up our first pick this year (#8 to #10) but I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, particularly if it would go a long way to keeping Danger at the Crows.

As long as he doesn't expect to be paid the same when he's out of contract.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Davis is a very good footballer but is another slow defender who has a happy knack not being on the park.

The only thing which would stop GWS running off laughing with our 1st round pick is they are prob even more desperate for KPD's

 

[Sanders]

I find it funny when people say putting off contract talks is natural and to avoid distractions when its our players, and a sign of a coming exodus when players from other clubs do it

Myself, I think its never because the player is overjoyed at his current situation. Its not a positive for the club, and means the player is either unhappy or wants to send a message to his current club to sharpen up

I mean how distracting can contract talks between his agent and a club be?
Agent: here player X, I've fielded offers and this is the best deal on the table, Whaddya reckon?
Player: yeah / nah

Meeting adjourned, duration 7 seconds

 

[Sanders]

From what I've heard Adelaide are sitting pretty good in the Lycett deal. Like many others I don't think we need him as much as Port but we could push Port into give up more. I've been confident that he would come home for a while after hearing him speak. Also confident that we have been in his ear for a while. I know that Adelaide could satisfy West Coast better with their need of mid field depth. I think Adelaide would be stupid not to try and get involved.

I don't think he even gets a game for us.

Would not want to waste McKernan's list spot on him

 

[Bailey01]

I don't think he even gets a game for us.

Would not want to waste McKernan's list spot on him

Anyone's better than McKernan

 

[Sanders]

Anyone's better than McKernan

Ok draft me then.