Opinion Brad Hartman

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MC Extra Dollop said:
So who's left? I'd say with the likely inclusions of Christensen and Blicavs and the omissions of Hartman and one of the rucks, it would be Caddy, Horlin-Smith, Varcoe, Kelly, Duncan, Christensen and maybe Stokes and Bartel from our best 22. I remember the game against North at the start of last year, where Stokes started as the sub and pretty much played the perfect sub's game. I don't think he's ever played as the sub again. He might be considered to be too good a player now and fair enough, but I think there's something to be said for looking at that Stokes game as the blueprint of what you want from the sub, rather than looking at it as 'WTF was he doing in the green vest in the first place?'

A lot of the players mentioned above can rack up big disposal and tackle numbers in a hurry. Many can also go forward and kick goals. Personally, I'd like to see whether a player that tends to drift in and out of games like Varcoe might still be able to get his usual dozen or so disposals, several tackles and kick a goal, if he's only given 30% or so of the game to make his mark. I'd like to see what Kelly would do in that role. And we have seen GHS and Christensen have outstanding games as the sub in the past.
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I'll take 120 mins, 30+ possessions and 2 goals from Stokes over 40 minutes, 15 possessions and a goal any day. I think there's a misplaced perception that the sub is a panacea, whereas in reality he's in the last four (and usually the last) picked. If we are relying on one to do the job in the last 40 minutes that twenty-one should have done in the first 80 minutes, then there's a problem. Pick the best twenty-one to play the maximum game time possible - the sub is overrated as a 'tactical weapon'.
 
They should put more thought in the use of the sub, a raw rookie almost never has an impact as a sub.

If there is no spot in the 21 for Hartman, the sub vest should go to someone like Stringer, who is more seasoned and has had an impact as sub before.
 
Rankin_1925 said:
I'll take 120 mins, 30+ possessions and 2 goals from Stokes over 40 minutes, 15 possessions and a goal any day. I think there's a misplaced perception that the sub is a panacea, whereas in reality he's in the last four (and usually the last) picked.
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Debatable. Players like Kersten, Murdoch, McIntosh/Simpson and - at times - someone like Bews or even Rivers could/have been close to the last players picked in the team. Yet, due to the roles that they fill, they are not options for the green vest.

If we want to use Stokes as an example, if he's not on the ground for 80 minutes, someone else is going to be. That could be an extra ruckman, which gives us a big advantage at the stoppages, or another small, who then needs to get 12 touches in 80 minutes for them to combine to exceed Stokes' per game averages for this year (he's kicking less than a goal per game). Plus, if the player knows that, barring injury, he's going to be subbed out of the game in the third quarter, he can also go hell for leather in his last 15-20 minutes of game time, while everyone else on the ground needs to pace themselves.

Rankin_1925 said:
If we are relying on one to do the job in the last 40 minutes that twenty-one should have done in the first 80 minutes, then there's a problem. Pick the best twenty-one to play the maximum game time possible - the sub is overrated as a 'tactical weapon'.
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Well, that's generally how it works, because usually your best 22 isn't available, so an emergency like Stringer or Sheringham is the obvious choice. But Hartman has had two goes as the sub and has been practically invisible in both. But Hartman has also been impressive in the two games he's been able to start and work himself into. So, even if Hartman is nominally the 22nd best player in the team, isn't it reasonable to have second thoughts about giving him the green vest, instead looking for a more established player who will be more likely to be: a) better equipped to hit the ground running and give us a spark; and b) stung by being chosen as the sub and go out when he gets his chance with a chip on his shoulder?

It's yet another reason why I think Chapman should have been kept: he'd be a frightening proposition as a designated sub.
 

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Rankin_1925 said:
I'll take 120 mins, 30+ possessions and 2 goals from Stokes over 40 minutes, 15 possessions and a goal any day. I think there's a misplaced perception that the sub is a panacea, whereas in reality he's in the last four (and usually the last) picked. If we are relying on one to do the job in the last 40 minutes that twenty-one should have done in the first 80 minutes, then there's a problem. Pick the best twenty-one to play the maximum game time possible - the sub is overrated as a 'tactical weapon'.
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which is the reason so many were pissed that geelong tried to use Chapman as a tactical sub in last years final.
 
Hartman has done enough now in 2 seasons to think he could be a player.

I still do not think it will be 2015, although hopefully he plays well enough to earn 4-5 senior games. I think he will be a 2016 player. Another pre-season, bigger tank and bigger body.
 
He earned 4 games this year.

I would hope to see him double that at least next year. Looks a likely type.
 

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JUBJUB said:
Hartman was Geelongs leading vote getter in last nights JJ Liston Trophy.He got 9 votes [3 B.O.Gs].Next bext was Schroder with 8.
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What's our track record with retaining & actually playing our leading JJ Liston vote getting AFL listed player (hope that makes sense)? Schroder wins it last year and can't get a senior gig this year, so hopefully Hartman doesn't have the same issue next year.
 
David the Cat said:
He earned 4 games this year.

I would hope to see him double that at least next year. Looks a likely type.
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Fantastic progress in 2 years , from a somewhat suss body shape and fitness he has really transformed himself.
If he keeps up the hunger he will be very exciting.
A future midfield with Hartman and JJ in it as the big tall bodies with Duncan, Caddy , GHS , Guthrie, Bundy , Lang and the Timbermerchant.........wowee !!:D
 
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