Business & Finance Is workplace safety beyond the joke now?

[BALKAN]

That's my hand 20 odd years after getting it mashed in pizza dough roller, there were about 70 stitches in there at the time, it's now arthritic, painful and I haven't been able to properly straighten my fingers since then because of the scar tissue. I'd rather see OH&S over regulated than have somebody else go through the grief I went through.

Get some sunlight, ma man!

 

[The Coup]

Shouldnt the workers have control of the job site though?

You talk in generalities, but OHS is ****ing important for people who actually work.

 

[JuddsABlue]

Shouldnt the workers have control of the job site though?

You talk in generalities, but OHS is ******* important for people who actually work.

Define control?

Should the lunatics have control of the asylum?

Lets be honest, we are a fairly lazy nation. We demand the highest wages out there, and the great 'aussie sickie' is a funny way of describing one of the many ways we can get out of work because we cant be stuffed

For every person who says they "do a hard days work", theres 10 others who say it but dont do it.

Workers should have a massive input in what safety measures are required and their feedback on the job site is probably the most important cog in creating a safe workplace, but to give employees free reign over what they determine as dangerous or risky is just asking for the business to be ran in to the ground.

 

[Bosun]

Security & safety compliance rarely reflects actual methods of prevention. They are point of blame documents.

 

[The Coup]

Why the **** do you care how productive someone is anyway?

All of your post is bullshit about Australians being bad workers, but I don't need to point that out. I'm just wondering what your motivation is here.

 

[JuddsABlue]

Why the **** do you care how productive someone is anyway?

All of your post is bullshit about Australians being bad workers, but I don't need to point that out. I'm just wondering what your motivation is here.

I've got no motivation, just explaining some of my experiences in the workforce so far

As for why do I care how productive somebody is, I guess in an individual sense I dont care at all, a lazy person will have that reflected in their life

On a larger/national workforce scale I think it's important we are productive because we are already losing jobs overseas and the worse we get as employees the more jobs we'll lose which is bad for all of us

A lazy father may cost his son a job

 

[The Coup]

So you think we're losing jobs overseas because we're not productive enough and are lazy people?

That is an interesting take on things. Factually incorrect and worryingly supportive of an exploitative labour market, but interesting.

 

[JuddsABlue]

So you think we're losing jobs overseas because we're not productive enough and are lazy people?

That is an interesting take on things. Factually incorrect and worryingly supportive of an exploitative labour market, but interesting.

I don't think it like that. I think we are losing jobs overseas because people are working harder for less

It's exploitive by our standards, but to them we may be exploitive ourselves

You've got a very smug tone and not really offering anything here though, you're just questioning opinions with no counter argument, so if you feel like explaining yourself then go ahead, otherwise just keep sounding like a douchebag

I've seen a lot of guys rob their employers blind and steal non worked hours through petty excuses where the only motivation is laziness and I don't really like it or think it's an honest or respectable way to go about being a human being, I'm just sharing those experiences in a thread about it.

 

[The Coup]

I don't think it like that. I think we are losing jobs overseas because people are working harder for less

It's exploitive by our standards, but to them we may be exploitive ourselves

So why do we allow our companies to just go and move our jobs over there and still sell those products in our own country?

Why don't we just kick the company out, take over the manufacturing and keep going with it, keeping the profits in our own country while we're at it?

Its not simply working harder for less, its slave labour. We allow companies to exploit people and pretend its just business. Its ****ed up. And those same people are the ones whinging about lazy employees. How about the businesses of Australia give something back for once instead of the people?

You've got a very smug tone and not really offering anything here though, you're just questioning opinions with no counter argument, so if you feel like explaining yourself then go ahead, otherwise just keep sounding like a douchebag

I've seen a lot of guys rob their employers blind and steal non worked hours through petty excuses where the only motivation is laziness and I don't really like it or think it's an honest or respectable way to go about being a human being, I'm just sharing those experiences in a thread about it.

I needed to clarify why you think it's fair for companies to exploit workers and pit them against eachother, and why you feel like Australian workers have no control over that.

 

[JuddsABlue]

So why do we allow our companies to just go and move our jobs over there and still sell those products in our own country?

Why don't we just kick the company out, take over the manufacturing and keep going with it, keeping the profits in our own country while we're at it?
.

I dont know why really, but I assume some responsiblity falls with the government. On one hand we want to have access to the best products from around the world, but on the other hand we want to keep Australias economoy rolling and its people in work.

Its not simply working harder for less, its slave labour. We allow companies to exploit people and pretend its just business. Its ****** up. And those same people are the ones whinging about lazy employees. How about the businesses of Australia give something back for once instead of the people?

I agree, it is slave labour, I certainly dont pretend its business, I think its disgraceful. Theres plenty of wrong doing on both sides. In my examples (two companies) its been extremely one sided though. The employers worked very hard and sacrificed a lot for the employees who didnt give two stuffs and did their best to eek everything out that they could while doing the least.

I wish there was more balance, the bigger companies acted more like the smaller companies in treating their employees, and employees all round were more willing to actually offer a fair days work than they currently are

 

[The Coup]

All good we're on the same page pretty much. Didn't intend to come across as condescending before either.

 

[Scotland]

Yes, it's out of control to the point that it's counter-productive, i.e. dangerous.

 

[bkozican]

In a simple answer.....Yes, Yes it has.

 

[kickazz]

I do think it has become too much of a box-ticking exercise and in some cases not practical enough. But you do want to err on the side of safety. Unfortunatley a lot of the 'training' and 'tests' you are forced to do don't actully teach you so much as allow the company to absolve themselves of liability should an accident occur - "but we trained them and they attested that they understood what they needed to do".

 

[Illinois Nazi]

I do think it has become too much of a box-ticking exercise and in some cases not practical enough. But you do want to err on the side of safety. Unfortunatley a lot of the 'training' and 'tests' you are forced to do don't actully teach you so much as allow the company to absolve themselves of liability should an accident occur - "but we trained them and they attested that they understood what they needed to do".

So much this. I did an online course in four parts just over a week ago. It was something safety related I'm pretty sure, but I cannot now remember at all what it was or anything it contained. I just did the tests by finding the bits with the answers, none of it has been retained at all.

I had to do one on fire extinguishers a couple of years back as well. Guess what, when the office catches fire I'm not going to be assessing exactly what type of fire it is and selecting the appropriate extinguisher, I'm going to be grabbing the only extinguisher we have anyway, pulling the pin and figuring it out as I go along. That's assuming I haven't already bolted for the stairs. Of course, if the fire is between me and the stairs I'm ****ed anyway as we only have one way out (which requires passing the kitchen area, the most likely source of a fire). But of course that would be a real safety issue that's expensive to fix so we will just keep ticking the boxes in the online courses.

 

[Scotland]

I worked at a site once where you had to wear your hard hat and glasses at all times while outside a building. The admin building had a quadrangle in the middle of it so if you walked across it without your PPE you risked getting in deep shit. It should be noted that the admin building is about 500m from the plant and a couple of km from the mine. And they wonder why people roll their eyes when the safety guy comes up to see what you're up to.

 

[Hudu Gurusingha]

So you think we're losing jobs overseas because we're not productive enough and are lazy people?

That is an interesting take on things. Factually incorrect and worryingly supportive of an exploitative labour market, but interesting.

The 'overseas threat' is actually a case of Australia shooting ourselves in the foot.

The Australian manufacturing and mining industries are becoming unviable for overseas investors because of the poor productivity rates and the huge amount of red tape and bureaucracy they need to go through to set-up business here. The way over-the-top safety compliance requirements are just one factor here.

Combined with this is the attitude of self-entitlement that bogan FIFO workers have - which is infiltrating the market. They expect top dollar but don't want to work for it. Unions are driving this - the fat, obscene, argumentative, whinging stereotype of the union leader is not an accident - its deliberate. Its something many bogans can relate to, and its in place to drive up membership numbers to fill their pockets.

These are the biggest threats to Australian worker jobs - not the Asian worker coming in and taking them instead, as has been scare mongered in the media. This is so far from the truth.

The anti-foreign sentiment forged by the Liberal party was just a ploy to win the votes of racist bogans - of which there are many - it doesn't address the real issues at hand that threaten the jobs of Australians in these industries.

The manufacturing industry may still be alive if the unions didn't constantly demand new EBA's for manufacturing workers. The amount of allowances these workers get is obscene for jobs of relatively low skill requiring little qualifications.

 

[PoppedCorn]

we make absolutely stupid rules at work sometimes
you just have to wonder who even comes up with half of them

and then when its flat out or its a once off, its ok to break the rule for ten mins
idiots

 

[The Coup]

The 'overseas threat' is actually a case of Australia shooting ourselves in the foot.

The Australian manufacturing and mining industries are becoming unviable for overseas investors because of the poor productivity rates and the huge amount of red tape and bureaucracy they need to go through to set-up business here. The way over-the-top safety compliance requirements are just one factor here.

Who do you care if they're unviable for overseas investors btw?

Can you give specific examples of "red tape" "Over the top safety" and "bureaucracy" too please? They are just buzzwords.

Combined with this is the attitude of self-entitlement that bogan FIFO workers have - which is infiltrating the market.

Nice classist attitude. You must be a hoot at the pub.

They expect top dollar but don't want to work for it. Unions are driving this - the fat, obscene, argumentative, whinging stereotype of the union leader is not an accident - its deliberate. Its something many bogans can relate to, and its in place to drive up membership numbers to fill their pockets.

And now Australian workers are lazy and greedy too, that's nice. Would be nice if any of your post was anything more than a bile filled rant lifted straight from Andrew Bolt's sphincter, but alas.

These are the biggest threats to Australian worker jobs - not the Asian worker coming in and taking them instead, as has been scare mongered in the media. This is so far from the truth.

The media don't scaremonger about foreign exploited labour at all, they tacitly support it in fact. The media hates refugees, totally different group of migrants.

The anti-foreign sentiment forged by the Liberal party was just a ploy to win the votes of racist bogans - of which there are many - it doesn't address the real issues at hand that threaten the jobs of Australians in these industries.

You're also racist towards Australians you realise. Common tactic used by the British - divide and conquer. The ruling class loves terms like bogans.

The manufacturing industry may still be alive if the unions didn't constantly demand new EBA's for manufacturing workers. The amount of allowances these workers get is obscene for jobs of relatively low skill requiring little qualifications.

According to you all the foreign investors would love to give everyone in Australia jobs, but greedy lazy bogan workers stop those poor multinationals from bringin wealth and prosperity to all. If we would only abolish unions and safety standards, capitalism could function properly and we could go back to pulling 18 hour shifts in the mines alongside our children (work life balance!).[/quote][/quote]

 

[DrKrieger]

Safety is very important.

But in my own very humble opinion, oh&s has never been about maximising safety, it's about minimising liability. In saying that, there is a lot of overlap between safety and oh&s, it's just that oh&s can sometimes be used to further aims not entirely rooted in looking after the best interests of workers.

 

[kfc1]

Someone dies on an Australian work site every single day. Higher than the state road toll.

What about the national road toll?

 

[Scotland]

Safety is very important.

But in my own very humble opinion, oh&s has never been about maximising safety, it's about minimising liability. In saying that, there is a lot of overlap between safety and oh&s, it's just that oh&s can sometimes be used to further aims not entirely rooted in looking after the best interests of workers.

This.

The last site I went to (late stages of construction, early stages of operation) had a couple of dedicated HSEC guys. Would be very surprised if they had any actual skills and they did nothing except force people to get paperwork signed by them in order to complete tasks they knew nothing about. Cleanest uniforms on site.

Whether or not safe work practices were employed was up to workers and supervisors doing the actual work.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Go on...

Its ridiculous - you cant argue this.

I don't even think it makes a workplace safer. The pressure to get the job done on time is increased, and there is so much crap to wade through most people just glaze over it without taking anything in

For a company it works out a cheaper to put all that stuff in than to deal with the aftermath of a workplace accident.

It comes down to the blame game when something happens. All they want to do is say "We put this person through training, inductions, ect. It's his fault"

I'm a Health & Safety Rep. While I agree many rules are over the top, you wouldn't believe the stupid things people do on a daily basis.

I can give a prime example of that.
At tafe someone decided using swimming goggles as eye protection when they were grinding. And no I'm not kidding.

I could give you another story about a prank involving acetylene and welding and the result of that to someone.

The silly stuff exists because someone has done stupid and hurt or killed themselves.

 

[Underdog]

There's a company in Perth, Woodside i think, where it's staff are banned from crossing St George's Terrace anywhere but at a set of lights even if the crossing is perfectly legal. I believe it's a dismissible offence if caught.

Anyone able to elaborate or qualify?

 

[kfc1]

There's a company in Perth, Woodside i think, where it's staff are banned from crossing St George's Terrace anywhere but at a set of lights even if the crossing is perfectly legal. I believe it's a dismissible offence if caught.

Was going to post this actually, have heard it as well.