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No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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If thymomodulin equals TB4 these texts are the most perplexing tidbit released thus far?
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Why aren't MFC in the gun?
Why can't ASADA find any evidence of Dank purchasing Thynomodulin?
If Dank was using thymomodulin at MFC while employed by EFC,isn't it possible he was using it at EFC?
 
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Mercurial89 said:
Your entire viewpoint is based on the idea the AFL will want players to miss time, or to have players under its banner marred as drug cheats while the entire time they have said the players were possibly duped and were the victims.

If the AFL play to the script they have followed they wont ban any players no one wants this over more than the AFL. That actually will work in our favour this time.
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Nothing wrong with my viewpoint - And there is no reason why the AFL won't follow the NRL script - Your last paragraph is a contradiction - The AFL wnats this over so they may find short bans appealing.

The key is commonsense - As Lance so eloquently wrote - The code should only allow provisional suspensions for POSITIVE tests, not where there are no positive test - Commensense is sadly lacking in this situation. And as others have pointed out the WADA code is unsuitable for team based sports.
 
60sbomber said:
I am a bit concerned that ASADA can use Dank's thymomodulin spreadsheet to establish which individuals got what. If they first establish that Dank used TB4 and not thymodmodulin, then they can jump straight to the spreadsheet being a record of his use of TB4 for each player.
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If the club didn't purchase Thymomodulin, then I'm fine with them following the circumstancial link between the two.

However, with Dank plugging the same substance at Melbourne, and them already being off the hook- gives me the belief that the club actually way buying it.

So it should be a simple case of xxx vials of Thymomodulin purchased. Here's the injection schedule for said substances. Injection counts matches the purchase? Yes?

Prove that it wasn't then.

If there were more injections of Thymosis given than purchased though- Then while punishments to the players would be difficult as again, the proof of exact player angle comes into play- but shit, you'd want to clear house if that's what did happen.
 
before you slay prendergast.. what he was actually saying is that WADA code not suitable for team sports.. because athletes are 'workers' and thus it is the SAME as construction workers told to keep using asbestos.. they have no choice.. they will just go along with the program.

Yes it was a crap analogy and used to 'boost' the view count...

But his point was valid.. that WADA does not fit in team sports.. at all.. ever.
 

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IggypopsTshirt said:
Why can't ASADA find any evidence of Dank purchasing Thynomodulin?
If Dank was using thymomodulin at MFC while employed by EFC,isn't it possible he was using it at EFC?
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Melbourne were investigated and cleared.

They wouldn't have cleared them unless there was a clear chain in the Thymomodulin. The link is there and found- so long as the doses bought matches the injections.
 
If we have a bunch of players missing the first few games I wonder if our draft position would get modified again.

I assume other clubs would sook if we lost the first 4 games because of suspended players and therefore finished 13th instead of 7th, and get a higher pick accordingly.
 
Walesy said:
Melbourne were investigated and cleared.

They wouldn't have cleared them unless there was a clear chain in the Thymomodulin. The link is there and found- so long as the doses bought matches the injections.
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Was that the investigation where Andy gave them a tingle and asked if everything was sweet at Demonland and they forgot to mention they'd been consulting with the central figure of the whole debacle? Or the one where the investigative geniuses of ASADA had it tidied up in short order?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/stephen-danks-threat-to-sue-asada/story-fni5f22o-1226693046039


"Invoices for the purchase of Thymomodulin and photographs of a bottle were given to ASADA investigators by at least one Essendon official".
Perhaps that evidence was put in with the James Hird pile, I hear it was labelled "Pesky facts not in line with required narrative and outcomes".
 
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yaco55 said:
Nothing wrong with my viewpoint - And there is no reason why the AFL won't follow the NRL script - Your last paragraph is a contradiction - The AFL wnats this over so they may find short bans appealing.

The key is commonsense - As Lance so eloquently wrote - The code should only allow provisional suspensions for POSITIVE tests, not where there are no positive test - Commensense is sadly lacking in this situation. And as others have pointed out the WADA code is unsuitable for team based sports.
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Its not a contradiction when you look at what the AFL want to occur-

-The AFL as a whole to look good, banning 34 players doesnt help that image
- Hearing each individual players case, banning them, hearing appeals, -Loooong process.

It is much more likely that the AFL would be angling to not ban any players at all than the scenarios you are proposing about just following along with what the NRL have done. I never said there was anything wrong with your viewpoint except that its based on only one idea, there are numerous other considerations that when taken into account lend to the idea that the AFL dont want players banned.
 

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mxett said:
If players consider the evidence and decide they probably were doped, what happens to Hird and Thompson?
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Hard to say.. I've always thought they would both walk.. but then you wonder..

The playing list seems very keen for Hird to stay.. and really we now have a situation where half the list aren't even involved in this thing anymore.. so if they are OK with Hird staying.. and the '34' are happy for him to stay.. then who knows.

I still probably think that if the players are banned.. both men have to go. I guess it will depend on exactly what happened and when.

If Dank has told EVERYONE that it is thymomodulin.. labelled the vials and spreadsheet thymomodulin.. and then actually ordered and injected TB4.. then is that Hird's fault? Or is that truly one mans fraud?

Hard to answer. I would leave it in the hands of the playing group tbh. Ultimately they are the ones that will decide if they can play for Hird again.. or not.
 
Mercurial89 said:
Its not a contradiction when you look at what the AFL want to occur-

-The AFL as a whole to look good, banning 34 players doesnt help that image
- Hearing each individual players case, banning them, hearing appeals, -Loooong process.

It is much more likely that the AFL would be angling to not ban any players at all than the scenarios you are proposing about just following along with what the NRL have done. I never said there was anything wrong with your viewpoint except that its based on only idea, there are numerous other considerations that when taken into account lend to the idea that the AFL dont want players banned.
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The HUN article now mentioning that AFL might refuse to issue IN.. and ASADA then forced to take it to CAS... did I miss something or is that an option?

That would be really interesting.. if AFL refused to prosecute and it all ended up at CAS.. I actually think that would benefit the players.. CAS is very independent and will want the proof to be bullet proof..
 
It's a fair indication of just how severe our scandal fatigue is on this board that so far this news doesn't even seem to be raising much reaction.

Just another shit situation. Same shit, different day.

Duckworth said:
Repeat after me... "I recall nothing".
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How can I repeat when I can't recall in the first place? :(

rines said:
Hard to say.. I've always thought they would both walk.. but then you wonder..

The playing list seems very keen for Hird to stay.. and really we now have a situation where half the list aren't even involved in this thing anymore.. so if they are OK with Hird staying.. and the '34' are happy for him to stay.. then who knows.

I still probably think that if the players are banned.. both men have to go. I guess it will depend on exactly what happened and when.

If Dank has told EVERYONE that it is thymomodulin.. labelled the vials and spreadsheet thymomodulin.. and then actually ordered and injected TB4.. then is that Hird's fault? Or is that truly one mans fraud?

Hard to answer. I would leave it in the hands of the playing group tbh. Ultimately they are the ones that will decide if they can play for Hird again.. or not.
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Hird and Thompson have both said that they'll walk if players are suspended, have they not?
 
My response to this is

meh

get it over with already
 

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Yep both Hird and Thompson have said they will walk
Doss
 
Doss said:
It's a fair indication of just how severe our scandal fatigue is on this board that so far this news doesn't even seem to be raising much reaction.

Just another shit situation. Same shit, different day.

How can I repeat when I can't recall in the first place? :(

Hird and Thompson have both said that they'll walk if players are suspended, have they not?
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Yep, and they need to if players deal or are banned
 
Doss said:
It's a fair indication of just how severe our scandal fatigue is on this board that so far this news doesn't even seem to be raising much reaction.

Just another shit situation. Same shit, different day.

How can I repeat when I can't recall in the first place? :(

Hird and Thompson have both said that they'll walk if players are suspended, have they not?
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No Thompson said he'll walk.. I think he indicated they would both walk.. I don't know. I've been pretty consistent that you can't keep them on.. but then I saw the club fall apart at the suggestion Hird would be sacked.. so now I've changed my mind.. I just don't know.

I think it will depend on what happens and what they decide to do.

If the players believe they are innocent.. BUT they are offered some sweetheart deal that sees them miss Round 1 and then back by Round 2.. and they want to take that option.. then that is their right.. but does that mean Hird has to leave?? I'm just not sure anymore.

I am also now VERY aware of the growing reality that we have OVER half our list that is 'new' since that period.. ie they still need a coach.. they still need guidance and they need stability. I am aware of the fact that several players have chosen our club specifically because Hird is here.

As I've posted on this thread before.. we can now put a decent side on the park in the 'worst' case scenario and the liklihood of players taking some BS deal appear to be growing.

I would totally leave it in the hands of the players. Have an open meeting including all players.. they all raise their hands yay or nay.. and whatever the group decides.. goes.
 
rines said:
The HUN article now mentioning that AFL might refuse to issue IN.. and ASADA then forced to take it to CAS... did I miss something or is that an option?

That would be really interesting.. if AFL refused to prosecute and it all ended up at CAS.. I actually think that would benefit the players.. CAS is very independent and will want the proof to be bullet proof..
Click to expand...

Like i said, the AFL from here on out will actually work in our favour. They are a rotten scheming organisation. They dont want players banned, there will be measures taken so that they are protected. The flaws in the system may benefit us this time.

This is why i quoted Yaco, in an ideal world where the system worked? Sure our players would probably be banned by the AFL. As we have seen though this system is so broken that i think there is a strong case for nothing coming of this at all. AFL X Broom =Rug.
 
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