Certified Legendary Thread 34 Essendon* Players suspended for doping violations - No opposition fans. Check OP for thread rules

[zeeCFC]

Can someone smart please explain this to me?

If Essendon players don't respond to the SCN, doesn't that mean they're given IN? Which means they're guilty and punished?

Malifice ??

Chris Kaias on Twitter is a good read if you have time.

 

[CFCtragic]

It means they won't be arguing their innocence to the ADRVP (the government-appointed group who assess show-cause notices and any responses to them in order to decide if the players are likely to have doped). Unless something strange occurs, it's pretty much a given that the ADRVP will conclude they have doped and will put an entry onto a 'register of findings'.

Once this occurs, I believe the infraction notices are sent and the players are referred to the AFL tribunal. The players can still argue their case here I think, and ASADA will argue theirs. Then, they are found guilty and punished.

If either side (ASADA or Essendon*) are not happy with the outcome, the next step is for the matter to be taken to the CAS - the sports court (in Switzerland I believe). That will drag the process out a looooong time.

However I thought that once they were found guilty they couldn't play or train, so why would they want to go to CAS that can take years??

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[Aphrodite]

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-football-blog/players-wont-answer-notices/20141023-3inyh.html

WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

1. ASADA must present their evidence to the Anti- Doping Independent Review Panel

Note: Essendon players are asking for this to happen within seven days

2. ASADA CEO Ben McDevitt will report to the AFL and AFL Legal Counsel Andrew Dillon, who will decide whether infraction notices will be handed out

Note: Infraction notices are a step up from the show cause notices and they indicate that ASADA believe a doping offence has been committed

3. Tribunal.

Note: This could happen within a month

MEB_

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-football-blog/players-wont-answer-notices/20141023-3inyh.html




MEB_

Thanks Aph!

 

[Malifice]

Malifice ??

Chris Kaias on Twitter is a good read if you have time.

Yes. The players have conceded INs. They will be entered on the register of findings now.

They want to expedite the next phase which is the hearing by the AFL tribunal.

Looks to me like the players have conceded the SC notices meet the lower level of proof for INs and want to challenge the evidence at a hearing where the standard of proof is higher.

 

[Aphrodite]

Thanks Aph!

I even understand it now as to what happens next.

 

[SBYM]

Yes. The players have conceded INs. They will be entered on the register of findings now.

They want to expedite the next phase which is the hearing by the AFL tribunal.

Looks to me like the players have conceded the SC notices meet the lower level of proof for INs and want to challenge the evidence at a hearing where the standard of proof is higher.

Perfect summation here folks.

Malifice is on ......

Thank feck, enough is enough...smack 'em or let 'em go...

I'd obviously prefer the former...

 

[zeeCFC]

Yes. The players have conceded INs. They will be entered on the register of findings now.

They want to expedite the next phase which is the hearing by the AFL tribunal.

Looks to me like the players have conceded the SC notices meet the lower level of proof for INs and want to challenge the evidence at a hearing where the standard of proof is higher.

Bombers fans are claiming they're calling the ASADA bluff and will defeat them at the AFL tribunal. Funny how every new finding is a win for them.

 

[coryne]

Bombers fans are claiming they're calling the ASADA bluff and will defeat them at the AFL tribunal. Funny how every new finding is a win for them.

Yep every suspension to a best 22 player will actually just be an expedition of the development of their depth ................

 

[ShanDog]

However I thought that once they were found guilty they couldn't play or train, so why would they want to go to CAS that can take years??

Good question - I don't really know. I did look through some case documents at the CAS website for shits and giggles a while ago and did note that some of the cases were being heard many months after the event in question. Given that courts (particularly international ones) are often subject to lengthy delays, I am assuming there could be a long wait involved if it goes that far.

 

[Malifice]

Bombers fans are claiming they're calling the ASADA bluff and will defeat them at the AFL tribunal. Funny how every new finding is a win for them.

They could still win at the AFL Tribunal. The standard of proof is much higher at the tribunal stage ('beyond the balance of probabilities') than it is at the RoF stage ('comfortable satisfaction').

Also, Court hearings are naturally a little swingy. Never underestimate the persuasiveness of good Counsel - and these blokes will be walking in there armed with some top silks.

I still think they will go though. The evidence I have seen to date is more than enough to meet the above standard at the hearing IMO. I dare say that the players will seek to have much of it excluded if possible.

 

[zeeCFC]

They could still win at the AFL Tribunal. The standard of proof is much higher at the tribunal stage ('beyond the balance of probabilities') than it is at the RoF stage ('comfortable satisfaction').

Also, Court hearings are naturally a little swingy. Never underestimate the persuasiveness of good Counsel - and these blokes will be walking in there armed with some top silks.

I still think they will go though. The evidence I have seen to date is more than enough to meet the above standard at the hearing IMO. I dare say that the players will seek to have much of it excluded if possible.

Who is on the AFL Tribunal? If it's anyone with vested interests in football then the Bomber fans are right to celebrate.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

And if ASADA is not satisfied with the Tribunal outcome?

 

[Aphrodite]

And if ASADA is not satisfied with the Tribunal outcome?

WADA?

 

[BluStreak]

If all 34 players are infracted what does that mean for sanctions against the club.

 

[Malifice]

And if ASADA is not satisfied with the Tribunal outcome?

They have the first right of appeal.

This is designed to stop the AFL looking after their own.

 

[The_Wookie]

Who is on the AFL Tribunal? If it's anyone with vested interests in football then the Bomber fans are right to celebrate.

Its chaired by former County Court Judge, David Jones.

Regular AFL Tribunal chairman David Jones will also chair any anti-doping hearings on a three-person bench rounded out by a lawyer and doctor who both have experience in the anti-doping sphere.

ref: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...layers-this-week/story-fni5f6kv-1227087563795

That panel also included Wayne Henwood, a member of the AFL tribunal panel and former player, and Dr Susan White, a sports physician from the Australian Sports Drug Medical Advisory Committee.

ref: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-asada-showcause-notices-20141020-118uvl.html

 

[JamisonRun40]

Sorry I don't trust the AFL Tribunal one little bit.

 

[hoddo22]

I could be wrong but I believe that only ASADA and WADA can appeal to CAS. I saw Chris Kaias on twitter showing examples of bad journalism.

It was reported that the players can appeal to CAS but he believes that is wrong.

 

[The_Wookie]

Sorry I don't trust the AFL Tribunal one little bit.

Then you will no doubt be relieved to know that this is an independent Tribunal, not the AFL Commission and not the AFL executive.

 

[HBF]

Then you will no doubt be relieved to know that this is an independent Tribunal, not the AFL Commission and not the AFL executive.

Thank goodness.
The thought of the AFL looking after their own gives me a pain in the stomach.

 

[The_Wookie]

I could be wrong but I believe that only ASADA and WADA can appeal to CAS. I saw Chris Kaias on twitter showing examples of bad journalism.

It was reported that the players can appeal to CAS but he believes that is wrong.

This is correct under the AFL code. However, there are other legal remedies the Bombers players can take in regular law.

 

[The_Wookie]

Thank goodness.
The thought of the AFL looking after their own gives me a pain in the stomach.

I think part of the reason there are no shenanigans this time is that its a clear anti-doping case now with no governance or other issues that would concern the commission. Theres a straight forward process for this which all parties are aware of, with nothing to be negotiated. The Commission/Executive only need to become involved if Essendon are unable to field a side as a result.

 

[The_Wookie]

Chris Kaias @ChrisKaias Follow
Seems to be foreshadowing a backdating claim later if necessary. 'Unnecessary delays...in no part attributable to [the players]...'

This is intriguing if true and could explain why the players werent joined to to the Federal Court case as well.