Alastair Clarkson - The Age 12.11.05

[grumbleguts]

Smith's final qtr in the 2013 prelim is all that is required to recognise his status as elite A grade. His opponent has become so exhausted running back and forth chasing at ghosts' tails, that he ended up as an extra player on the field and geelong played a man down.

 

[James Colorado]

A lot of elite runners, like Smith and Hill, don't get recognized for a lot of their unrewarded running (eg. Chance Bateman in the 2008 Grand Final) that puts extra pressure on the opposition's defense, and often goes a long way to our forwards getting that little bit of extra space that can result in a goal. This is why these two now draw the best taggers.

It seems like the sort of thing that's recognized by opposition coaches and players, yet is ignored by the media and the general football public.

 

[Thaihawk]

It seems like the sort of thing that's recognized by opposition coaches and players, yet is ignored by the media and the general football public.

It has been part of Clarko's game plan for a lone time now, and as we know a very successful part.

 

[crazywildhorse]

The thing about half of our A grade players is that they were developed into their roles. At just about any other club; Gibson, Breust, Gunston, Smith, or Hill would not be A grade players. Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Roughead, Frawley, Spangher, Burgoyne, and Lake are the only proven A graders.

 

[Foxx1]

Loving this bump!

On the subject of our 2 magnificent wingers Smith and Hill, where do I start!

Both are A grades for thier position across the league in my opinion, but in truth there arnt that many clubs with lanky, highly skilled and super endurance true wingers bar Hawthorn. Every club in the comp would take either or both of Smith or Hill in an instance and play them in the exact same role such is thier efficiency on the wing. There are only probably 3-4 other real wingers in the league, S.Hill, Jetta and a few other poor examples that don't play the same run and carry game as Smith and Hill do so well as often anyway.

It's Hawthorns game plan that also makes both these players so so important. The highly defensive teams like Sydney and Freo play long down the line and if players are not in packs or marking the wingers then look out. And when the opposition turn it over in thier own attacking 50 if either of Hawthorns wingers get space coming out of defense it's game over. Clubs that try the same methods without the endurance power athletes get caught up in traffic especially late in games.

If GF performance did matter to A grade status. Hill was A+ in 2014. And considering Hawthorns game plan had them play in 2 GFs before Hartung was drafted it's insane to think other clubs passed him up. Doh!

 

[Brishawk]

I find the perceptions of Smith interesting. Many said he had a quite year but for mine it was easily his best as backed up by his stats (22.5 disposals v 20 disposals in 2013). Remarkably consistent and regularly brilliant for an outside runner. Also managed a goal a game average which is fantastic. Played a little closer into the packs this year and did some tagging jobs himself. Amazing player who deserves a lot more love!

 

[Hawkas1988]

Smith and Birchall's years were very underrated by many on here and in general. The best and fairest results prove this.

 

[Agent Smith]

I find the perceptions of Smith interesting. Many said he had a quite year but for mine it was easily his best as backed up by his stats (22.5 disposals v 20 disposals in 2013). Remarkably consistent and regularly brilliant for an outside runner. Also managed a goal a game average which is fantastic. Played a little closer into the packs this year and did some tagging jobs himself. Amazing player who deserves a lot more love!

Thanks Brishawk. I take back all of those nasty things I said about you. Well... most of them.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I find the perceptions of Smith interesting. Many said he had a quite year but for mine it was easily his best as backed up by his stats (22.5 disposals v 20 disposals in 2013). Remarkably consistent and regularly brilliant for an outside runner. Also managed a goal a game average which is fantastic. Played a little closer into the packs this year and did some tagging jobs himself. Amazing player who deserves a lot more love!

Indeed Brishawk...He has been our most important element so far as unbalancing the opposition both from a running perspective & also for providing Hill with a free run; by being assigned a heavy tag, week in week out across the second half of 2014.

Clearly, opposition coaching panels rate him more highly than some on our own boards do!

 

[Bikefreak]

The thing about half of our A grade players is that they were developed into their roles. At just about any other club; Gibson, Breust, Gunston, Smith, or Hill would not be A grade players. Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Roughead, Frawley, Spangher, Burgoyne, and Lake are the only proven A graders.

I think you have a few of the above blokes in the wrong category. Many of the other clubs would snap these guys up in a heartbeat and their inclusion would see current listed players relegated immediately to the 2s.

 

[crazywildhorse]

I think you have a few of the above blokes in the wrong category. Many of the other clubs would snap these guys up in a heartbeat and their inclusion would see current listed players relegated immediately to the 2s.

This is true now, but if Bruest for example had been rookie listed by most other clubs, he'd already be back at the farm.
Gibson was being meekly groomed a B-grade player before he switched to Hawthorn.

 

[dermott]

The thing about half of our A grade players is that they were developed into their roles. At just about any other club; Gibson, Breust, Gunston, Smith, or Hill would not be A grade players. Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Roughead, Frawley, Spangher, Burgoyne, and Lake are the only proven A graders.

LOL.

 

[driftyhunter]

The thing about half of our A grade players is that they were developed into their roles. At just about any other club; Gibson, Breust, Gunston, Smith, or Hill would not be A grade players. Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Roughead, Frawley, Spangher, Burgoyne, and Lake are the only proven A graders.

Ahhh...we love the Spang. But assuming this is a typo

 

[crazywildhorse]

Ahhh...we love the Spang. But assuming this is a typo

It only took about 3 weeks for someone to realise I had slipped him in there.

What Spangher is though is a certified A-grade cult figure. He wasn't even a B-grader at Sydney/WC. It took him to come to Hawthorn for us to unleash his potential.

I don't think we have had such a complete cult hero since James Morrissey, and his status ranks him up their with some of the greats, including Doc Wieldon, Clive Waterhouse, and the Spider Burton. He is elite.

 

[Davo23]

It only took about 3 weeks for someone to realise I had slipped him in there.

What Spangher is though is a certified A-grade cult figure. He wasn't even a B-grader at Sydney/WC. It took him to come to Hawthorn for us to unleash his potential.

I don't think we have had such a complete cult hero since James Morrissey, and his status ranks him up their with some of the greats, including Doc Wieldon, Clive Waterhouse, and the Spider Burton. He is elite.

The thing about Spang is that so many opposition supporters love him.

Many of my friends were rapt that he won a premiership, a couple of them are Collingwood supporters!

 

[crazywildhorse]

The thing about Spang is that so many opposition supporters love him.

Many of my friends were rapt that he won a premiership, a couple of them are Collingwood supporters!

This is why he is an elite cult figure.

The life of Spang also goes to prove have being a good bloke (non-dickhead) is underated. Secondly, it proves how shite the culture at WC and Sydney is to not release this man to his full potential.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

My opinion is that among the wingmen of today, both Smith and Hill are elite and that is a massive advantage. The key is we have 2 of them.

We have 2 similar players in most of the damaging areas of the ground. Other than the pure mids, where the ball is won from a congested and more spontaneous environment, we attack from HB and the wings. We also use the wings to open up space for our half backs and this is where Hilly and Smith really hurt opposition throughout the year. Running their opponents wide while Birchall and Suckling come inboard was a common form of attack over the last 3 years.

I think the personnel are just as critical as their role is. We have TWO good distributors at half back, one running and one kicking (Birchall / Suckling) and TWO damaging runners making space for them to kick into up the field (Smith and Hill). I think that's partly why we sent Mitchell / Burgoyne back there when Suckers was unavailable. Think about it, we never send Shiels, Sewell or any other questionable user back there to fill that role.

It's all good having 2 Our game-plan wouldn't be anywhere near as effective without Hill and Smith because they are so damaging when they get the ball. If they weren't then their opponents wouldn't follow them out of the center as often and the plan would need rejigging. I guess we are lucky to have the talent on the list and the coach with the brains to use it and exploit the opposition with it. I am sure the same list under a different coach would not be as effective.
Clarko is the biggest part of our current success in my eyes.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Alastair Clarkson will, in 2015, become the longest consecutive serving coach of the HFC in it's history, breaking the previous record of 10 Seasons set by John Kennedy Senior from 1967-1976.

For mine, Clarko is not even half way along in his coaching stint/career with us. These past 10 years seem almost like he has served his apprenticeship & is only just now coming into his element in term of the peak of his powers as a senior AFL coach!....At 46 years of age, he should have at least another 10-15 years left in him.

Without wishing to put the proverbial 'Mochas' on him, he now has the chance to cement his place in terms of our clubs history as it's greatest coach by setting a record that will be near impossible to match.

Although his record in home & away games sits at a mere 62% (Due in no small part to his first 2 seasons of a re-build), his Finals record is supreme at a staggering 72% & 75% in Grand finals!....In comparison to Allan Jeans record which sits at 75% in Home & Away games, but drops away to 62% come finals time & 50% in Grand finals....Of course, Jeans had the power teams of Carlton & Essendon to contend with, whilst Clarko has only really had to deal with & overcome the Cats juggernaut!....(Anyone even mentioning/thinking Sydney as a fair dinkum adversary leave this forum now!)

The squad is now all his own with the obvious exceptions of Hodge & Mitchell, who continue to remain it's most vital components....Peter Schwab deserves eternal credit for his brave & self-sacrificing decision in 2001 for trading away both Croad & McPharlin in order to secure these 2 champions & legends of our club....Without whom, none of the current success would have been possible!

Anyhow, although it probably deserves a thread of it's own, Kudos to Clarko for putting this club back up where it belongs, & becoming it's longest consecutive coach into the bargain.

The calls for Barney to return to the club have now well & truly subsided into the shadowy never world of the past!....He has proven me wrong!

 

[Thaihawk]

I find the perceptions of Smith interesting. Many said he had a quite year but for mine it was easily his best as backed up by his stats (22.5 disposals v 20 disposals in 2013). Remarkably consistent and regularly brilliant for an outside runner. Also managed a goal a game average which is fantastic. Played a little closer into the packs this year and did some tagging jobs himself. Amazing player who deserves a lot more love!

Trouble is Brishawk, at the moment we have so many "amazing players who deserve a lot more love," and here lies a reason why I believe we will be targeted by several other clubs who will be throwing large sums of money at many of our players during next season.

 

[Hawkk]

Pound for Pound I think he has grounds to be considered our greatest ever coach already (and #12 in VFL/AFL history).

By my rough calculation 15 coaches have won 3 or more VFL/AFL flags...

McHale won 7 VFL flags in 38 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 16th season)
Smith won 6 VFL flags in 22 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 9th season)
Worrell won 5 VFL flags in 18 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 8th season)
Hughes won 5 VFL flags in 20 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 13th season)
Hafey won 5 VFL flags in 23 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 8th season)
Matthews won 4 AFL flags in 17 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 13th season)
Parkin won 3 VFL / 1 AFL flag in 22 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 8th season)
Reynolds won 4 VFL flags in 22 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 11th season)
Barrassi won 4 VFL flags in 23 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 11th season)
Jeans won 4 VFL flags in 25 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 22nd season)
Sheedy won 2 VFL / 2 AFL flags in 29 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 12th season)
Clarkson has won 3 AFL flags in 10 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 10th season)
Kennedy won 3 VFL flags in 19 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 14th season)
Hickey won 3 VFL flags in 28 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 21st season)
Mathouse has won 3 AFL flags in 28 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 23rd season)


Pound for pound Clarkson ranks 5th of all time with respect to seasons taken to become a triple premiership coach...

Parkin reached it after 8 seasons (1 with Hawthorn, 2 with Carlton)
Worrell reached it after 8 seasons (hat trick with Carlton)
Hafey reached it after 8 seasons (3 with Richmond)
Smith reached it after 9 seasons (hat trick with Melbourne)
Clarkson reached it after 10 seasons (3 with Hawthorn)

If Clarkson salutes next year he will easily rank amongst the top 5 coaches in VFL / AFL history. In terms of AFL history, he ranks #2...

Matthews - 4 flags in 13 seasons
Clarkson - 3 flags in 10 seasons
Malthouse - 3 flags in 25 seasons
Blight - 2 flags in 8 seasons
Thompson - 2 flags in 11 seasons
Pagan - 2 flags in 15 seasons

Whilst Clarkson has age on his side it should be noted that most coaches win flags early in their coaching careers...

 

[Hawkk]

It should be noted that Clarkson effectively had to build our side from the ground up in an age of absolute equalisation.

For this reason I think that his achievement in becoming a triple premiership coach within a decade trumps Parkin, Hafey, Worrell and Smith...

 

[Thaihawk]

LOL.

I think crazywukdhorse was just vindicating the use of crazy in his user name.

 

[Thaihawk]

Pound for Pound I think he has grounds to be considered our greatest ever coach already (and #12 in VFL/AFL history).

By my rough calculation 15 coaches have won 3 or more VFL/AFL flags...

McHale won 7 VFL flags in 38 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 16th season)
Smith won 6 VFL flags in 22 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 9th season)
Worrell won 5 VFL flags in 18 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 8th season)
Hughes won 5 VFL flags in 20 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 13th season)
Hafey won 5 VFL flags in 23 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 8th season)
Matthews won 4 AFL flags in 17 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 13th season)
Parkin won 3 VFL / 1 AFL flag in 22 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 8th season)
Reynolds won 4 VFL flags in 22 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 11th season)
Barrassi won 4 VFL flags in 23 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 11th season)
Jeans won 4 VFL flags in 25 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 22nd season)
Sheedy won 2 VFL / 2 AFL flags in 29 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 12th season)
Clarkson has won 3 AFL flags in 10 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 10th season)
Kennedy won 3 VFL flags in 19 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 14th season)
Hickey won 3 VFL flags in 28 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 21st season)
Mathouse has won 3 AFL flags in 28 years (achieving his 3rd success after his 23rd season)


Pound for pound Clarkson ranks 5th of all time with respect to seasons taken to become a triple premiership coach...

Parkin reached it after 8 seasons (1 with Hawthorn, 2 with Carlton)
Worrell reached it after 8 seasons (hat trick with Carlton)
Hafey reached it after 8 seasons (3 with Richmond)
Smith reached it after 9 seasons (hat trick with Melbourne)
Clarkson reached it after 10 seasons (3 with Hawthorn)

If Clarkson salutes next year he will easily rank amongst the top 5 coaches in VFL / AFL history. In terms of AFL history, he ranks #2...

Matthews - 4 flags in 13 seasons
Clarkson - 3 flags in 10 seasons
Malthouse - 3 flags in 25 seasons
Blight - 2 flags in 8 seasons
Thompson - 2 flags in 11 seasons
Pagan - 2 flags in 15 seasons

Whilst Clarkson has age on his side it should be noted that most coaches win flags early in their coaching careers...

What this list does, is emphasize the truth about Sheedy. When you consider some of the great (hate saying that) teams he had to work with, his results prove he was way, way, way, below average when it comes to being among the competition's best coaches. All the hype about what a great coach he was is all bull siht. IMHO he wasn't such a great player either, just a dirty sniper.

 

[Great 2008]

Alastair Clarkson will, in 2015, become the longest consecutive serving coach of the HFC in it's history, breaking the previous record of 10 Seasons set by John Kennedy Senior from 1967-1976.

For mine, Clarko is not even half way along in his coaching stint/career with us. These past 10 years seem almost like he has served his apprenticeship & is only just now coming into his element in term of the peak of his powers as a senior AFL coach!....At 46 years of age, he should have at least another 10-15 years left in him.

Without wishing to put the proverbial 'Mochas' on him, he now has the chance to cement his place in terms of our clubs history as it's greatest coach by setting a record that will be near impossible to match.

Although his record in home & away games sits at a mere 62% (Due in no small part to his first 2 seasons of a re-build), his Finals record is supreme at a staggering 72% & 75% in Grand finals!....In comparison to Allan Jeans record which sits at 75% in Home & Away games, but drops away to 62% come finals time & 50% in Grand finals....Of course, Jeans had the power teams of Carlton & Essendon to contend with, whilst Clarko has only really had to deal with & overcome the Cats juggernaut!....(Anyone even mentioning/thinking Sydney as a fair dinkum adversary leave this forum now!)

The squad is now all his own with the obvious exceptions of Hodge & Mitchell, who continue to remain it's most vital components....Peter Schwab deserves eternal credit for his brave & self-sacrificing decision in 2001 for trading away both Croad & McPharlin in order to secure these 2 champions & legends of our club....Without whom, none of the current success would have been possible!

Anyhow, although it probably deserves a thread of it's own, Kudos to Clarko for putting this club back up where it belongs, & becoming it's longest consecutive coach into the bargain.

The calls for Barney to return to the club have now well & truly subsided into the shadowy never world of the past!....He has proven me wrong!

Taking those two seasons out (and I remember them well) what would his % win record be? I found most Hawks fans were very patient during these formative years in Clarko's coaching career. It was baffling to watch how the team set up during some of these games. However, almost all the players hung fat and have reaped the benefits.

 

[grumbleguts]

If you take 2005 and 2006 out of the equation his success rate pushes up to 64.04%. (and the 62% cited above is the total including finals, as is the 64.04% cited here)

Taking those two seasons out (and I remember them well) what would his % win record be? I found most Hawks fans were very patient during these formative years in Clarko's coaching career. It was baffling to watch how the team set up during some of these games. However, almost all the players hung fat and have reaped the benefits.