No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[2one2]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...s-hird-the-cold-shoulder-20141128-11wdbu.htmlhttp://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...s-hird-the-cold-shoulder-20141128-11wdbu.html

Haha ok m8. "there was a meeting and nothing happened. The two coaches other than Bucks who talked to James Hird the other month have been sacked. James Hird."

 

[MightyDon]

Can someone put Caros head on George?

Maybe Matty Lloyds head on Jerry.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...s-hird-the-cold-shoulder-20141128-11wdbu.htmlhttp://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...s-hird-the-cold-shoulder-20141128-11wdbu.html

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...s-hird-the-cold-shoulder-20141128-11wdbu.htmlhttp://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...s-hird-the-cold-shoulder-20141128-11wdbu.html

this strikes me as very odd... surely his fellow afl coaches understand the predicament that hird is in..

surely they are educated enough in the issue that is the "supplement saga" that has occurred at essendon to not only have sympathy for hird but to understand that as a head AFL coach he is in no position to control the sport science division.

this has to be a beat up from the afl... I mean Caroline Wilson..

there is no way that other AFL coaches would purposely ignore hird due to what they have heard through the media.

there is zero chance that they have made there judgement on hirds involvement in the supplement program from listerning to SEN, and thus, there is no chance that they would ostracize Hird for any reason other than a directive from the afl..


this is a statement made from more
than a handful of beers.... corrections will be duly noted.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Can someone put Caros head on George?

Maybe Matty Lloyds head on Jerry.

hahahahahahahahaha so f'n perfect!

 

[Doss]

What a pointless story.

 

[BrewSmackerVeiny]

I am actually starting to feel sorry for Caro

 

[yaco55]

Caro's ramblings become pointless when she labors the same point over and over again. This is very much SOLELY a Caro crusade.

 

[MiguelM]

Hmmm, not one quote in Caro's story. Flogging a dead horse again with her "opinion"

Interesting that every outside person that comes to the club (Cooney, Gwilt, Craig, Neeld, etc.) cite Hird as part of the reason to come to the club. Seem happy to engage with him.

I just don't see the supposed anti Hird rhetoric from the industry, even from the AFL. I mean Gil said a while back that he will be looking to mend bridges and has now spoken to Hird on a number of occasions. Vlad was the enemy there IMO.

 

[jmoo wan]

Mine's being at least 2 days and I'm still waiting ...

It's worth the wait.

 

[jmoo wan]

it's a bit hard mate. You have to respect the fact it's posted on a private board. Whereas on this board we have a lot of lurking guests (hai guys!!).

I'd love pass it all on but do I have the right to post shit publicly from their private board? I don't believe I do.

You could probably post Bruce's stuff?

He did post the following:

it is not up to me to be smashing the bowlers to the fence, it is up to you Essendon supporters to start putting the pressure on your board, the AFL. You're the ones that have to distribute the material to as many people as you can so as to embarrass the sycophants in the media into finally writing the truth (Chip and a few others excepted). Eventually, the editors at The Age have to ask M/s Wilson why she didn't report on the things that are contained in all the documents I have worked on. I don't have anywhere near the resources that she has available to her. I certainly don't have the AFL ringing me up to tip me off to stories, that's for sure. But somehow, I managed to get all this stuff. Anyway Speedy, it is up to you. If you sent my stuff to enough people, surely they will start asking enough questions to make all the journalists feel uncomfortable about their gross dereliction of their duties to their readers/listeners/viewers. Perhaps they just want to be communications specialists like the ones who work for AFL Media.

 

[rumply]

I see ASADA still haven't dealt with the cases of those ex Cronulla players who were left out of the 'sweetheart' deal the others secured, & have been left hanging - It's only their livelihood & preseason's are underway so what the hey, right?. But do we hear outrage about that from the Master's, Smith's & Caro's of this world? Nah, guess there's not enough Big Bad Essendon or #HirdsFault.

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

Hird has no friends = Front page news. Oh dear!

 

[Smokin]

why waste time with her rubbish articles, when she has one with perhaps a real development.

If you have followed Bruce, with Hardie on twitter - both have suggested that Asada lawyers have told Asada they have no case. Interesting. Bruce went on to suggest Alavi cant really testify as handing out un-labelled viles is against the law/his profession - and charters as we all know probably wont testify as he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Bruce suggested last Monday the lawyers told them.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/supple...discuss-evidence-dispute-20141128-11wgpo.html

The move came as genuine doubt emerged over whether key witnesses in the case against the players - Shane Charter and Nima Alavi - would agree to appear before the AFL's anti-doping tribunal. It is believed a series of requests from ASADA to both Charter and Alavi have failed to secure their presence as witnesses in the hearing, which is due to start on December 15.

This is the first time a mainstream publication as gone with it - sure no direct quote but where there is smoke there is fire?

Try to prove a circumstantial chain without the 2 key witnesses? Good luck with that.

 

[carnthedons]

why waste time with her rubbish articles, when she has one with perhaps a real development.

If you have followed Bruce, with Hardie on twitter - both have suggested that Asada lawyers have told Asada they have no case. Interesting. Bruce went on to suggest Alavi cant really testify as handing out un-labelled viles is against the law/his profession - and charters as we all know probably wont testify as he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Bruce suggested last Monday the lawyers told them.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/supple...discuss-evidence-dispute-20141128-11wgpo.html



This is the first time a mainstream publication as gone with it - sure no direct quote but where there is smoke there is fire?

Try to prove a circumstantial chain without the 2 key witnesses? Good luck with that.

v. appropriate freudian slip/misspelling

 

[vast]

Exclusive footage of Gillon and Hirds handshake.

 

[flintandtas]

You could probably post Bruce's stuff?

Yep, reading the thread through, Bruce's intention is to get the word out as much as possible.

I guess the only concern would be the parts which were taken directly from the interim report.

There are plenty of other parts though which I think fill in a lot of gaps of what happened for people who only have seen things from the perspective of the AFL's / ASADA's narrative. His sources seem a lot more reliable as well, are directly attributed to the source (in most cases Doc Reid), and seem to be copied and pasted from emails he has received. While I don't think there is anything new there that I haven't seen before, most of it is a more detailed narrative of events then has been published anywhere before. The letter he wrote to Pat smith is a must read.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Just reading Martin Hardie's latest digs at Ings on Twitter.

Of all the people who have popped up in this saga, Hardie is by far the most self-righteous, egotistical campaigner of them all.

 

[efcboy]

Horribly deceptive article.
Watch the hardcore Hird supporters jump all over him, id only ask that they read the whole thing (its not big) and note that he only holds that view IF players are suspended. Id say hes being quite reasonable.

Nah Daniel Àndrew is another corrupt politician who will only send Victoria backwards

 

[George Washington]

Courtesy of Bruce Francis on BB:

Posted with permission:

Absolutely. Everything I write carries my name and is okay to publish as wide as possible.

James Hird’s position on the supplement program:



In May 2011, Essendon chairman, David Evans, chief executive Robson, general manager – football operations, Hamilton, Danny Corcoran, Hird and Mark Thompson decided that Essendon would adopt a more scientific approach to preparation in season 2012.



In October or November 2011, Hird told Dank, Robinson and Dr Reid that any supplement given to players ‘had to be approved by Dr Reid and couldn’t harm the player, and the player had to know what he had been given’.



On, or about, 13 December 2011, Hird had an impromptu chat at the Southport Sheraton Mirage Hotel with Shane Charter and Dank. Charter told ASADA that Dank sought to convince Hird that the use of growth hormones within the AFL was commonplace. Dank then advocated the use of peptides at EFC, claiming they were safe and legal under the World Anti-Doping Code. According to Charter, Hird told Dank that anything used on the Essendon players had to be WADA compliant and approved by Dr Reid



On, or before, 13 January 2012 – Dr Reid became aware that players were being administered peptide Tribulus (oral) and peptide AOD-9604 (injection) without his approval. Dr Reid raised his concerns with Hird about the supplementation program. Hird discussed the matter with Dr Reid and together decided how they would report the matter to ensure both Dank and Robinson complied with his [Reid’s] directive about the supplementation protocols. Hird and Reid decided three things would occur: One, Dr Reid would report the matter to his department head Hamilton. Two, enquiries would be made directly with Dank and Robinson; and third, Dr Reid would write a letter to Hamilton expressing his concerns, and if Hamilton ‘thought it needed to go further, he could take it further up the line of command’.



Shortly after meeting with Hird, Dr Reid spoke to his department head Hamilton about the supplement program. Dr Reid advised Hamilton that he would be writing him a letter outlining his concerns. Hamilton said he immediately raised Dr Reid’s concerns with the Chief Executive Officer Robson. Dr Reid then wrote a letter – which Hird claims not to have seen - as a means of formally documenting the matters they had discussed. From Hird’s perspective, the letter was to be delivered to Hamilton in his capacity as Reid’s department head.



Hird rejected any suggestion that he had instructed or encouraged Robinson to ‘push the edge’. He told ASADA that ‘I have an issue with people who give people illegal products and things that would harm them. My philosophy is as stated there, that any product that goes to a player must not harm them, must be approved by AFL and WADA and the player has to consent to it, and the doctor’s the ultimate final say but – and that was expressed to Dean all the time’.



According to ASADA, Robinson claims to have understood the responsibilities of his role to include the management of the High Performance Department and the oversight of medical staff (doctors and physiotherapists), but not ever take away from their [professional medical] decision making. Stephen Dank, the Club’s Sports Scientist, also reported to Robinson. Although Robinson stated it was part of his charter with Essendon to ‘push the edge’, he understood that this was to occur within WADC guidelines.



Hird claimed he felt sufficiently concerned by Dr Reid’s disclosures that he convened a meeting with Robinson, Dank, Thompson, Reid and Hamilton, where questions were ‘quite aggressively’ put to Dank and Robinson as to why the unauthorised injecting of players had occurred.



Mark McVeigh, a member of the player leadership group, became involved at this stage and subsequently testified to ASADA as follows: ‘So I spoke to Jobe [Watson] and we went up and we asked Jonah [Oliver] to come and take the minutes … and said, “[James] Hird, I reckon it’s important that we have a presentation, that (1) clearly defines what we’re taking; (2) [confirms that] it’s approved by ASADA and WADA and that everything’s above board, and the reasons why you might be given a supplement,” And [James Hird] said, “Yes, that’s very important; let’s get that done.” That was done within two days, and a presentation was provided to us in the auditorium. And that’s when the discussion of the consent forms were discussed in that meeting’.



Hird confirmed his position in respect of Mr Robinson’s proposal via email:

“Sounds good Deano [Robinson], you know my thoughts on supplements.

1. It must not harm the player

2. It must not be illegal (according to WADA and AFL drug guidelines)

3. We must get player consent

As long as we stick to those guidelines and you and Steve [Dank] think it will help us then let’s go for it.”



Between April and August 2012, ‘Suki Hobson told Hird Steve Dank he had some stuff in his fridge he shouldn’t have. She advised Hird to go down and make sure that what he has in his fridge is what he says he has in his fridge.” Hird went [straight] down. “Steve wasn’t there – I went down [again] some time that day to see Steve and said to Steve, “Suki tells me there are things here that shouldn’t be here.” He said, “No, no. No, no, son, it’s – it’s just stuff for Dean [Robinson’s close friend]” and I said, “well get it out of here straight away. I don’t care who it is for, get it out of here.” He said, “I will, son; I’ll get it out of here straight away.” And I know Mark Thompson I know then went down half an hour later and absolutely ripped through him. I reported this to Paul Hamilton



In response to this information Dr Reid convened a meeting between himself, Hird, Thompson, Oliver and Dank. According to Dr Reid, during the meeting Thompson resolutely advised Dank that the injecting of players was to cease:

And I [Reid] can remember Mark Thompson, because [Dank] then did it again, gave some injection to someone and so this might be two weeks later again, and I’ve never heard Mark Thompson yell any louder on the footy field and he screamed at [Dank to stop the injections]’. (915 Dr Reid/ASADA interview 18 February 2012, page 41).



Hird recalled the decision to record Mr Dank’s supplementation of players: ‘We required a database, we wanted things recorded, we wanted to know exactly what was put in place … [and] it was meant to go to Bruce Reid. I don’t know whether it went to Bruce Reid but it was meant to be filled out and given to Bruce Reid … So Dean Wallis was meant to keep a record with respect to – and we subsequently learnt that he has kept a very good record and that was meant to go to Bruce [Reid]



In July 2012, Dr Reid, supported by Corcoran and Hird, asked Evans and Robson to terminate Robinson’s services. Evans and Robson refused on the grounds Essendon couldn’t afford the payout. The Essendon board ratified Evans and Robson’s decision at the august 2012 board meeting.



Let’s not beat around the bush, the Great Sandy Desert, Lake Eyre, the Wimmera – all those bits of Australia for whom you write – here: although it wasn’t his responsibility, and although he had no power or right to intervene, Hird acted very responsibly. Any journalist who didn’t discuss all of the above issues obviously had no intention of being fair to Hird. And really, by now, why would you Pat. He’s already severely embarrassed you by still being there.



It’s not your fault Pat that Hird listened to that Sheedy bloke for all those years – Stand Your Ground. And it wasn’t your fault that Dr Reid was able to help Hird stand his ground. The strategy is simple, when those with something to hide, let’s create a nice little legal term to describe them for future reference, when the Hidees start their favourite bullying tactics, you find a good lawyer, a good court, and a list of subpoenas that reads like a Who’s Who of the AFL. The Hidees then settle, literally and legally. I know this has been long, and hard for you, Pat, but we’re nearly there. Just clutch the ticket to that deserted beach, and bear with me a bit longer. And if you think you might have read some of this before, well that’s okay, Pat, a lot of your readers have read a lot of your stuff more than once before, and you get away with it, so why not me.

 

[George Washington]

Fair to say Elizabeth Lukin was an absolute snake. Would not surprise me if Hird was already painted as the scape goat and Elizabeth was sent in to shape the story to achieve that. Telling him to say he accepts ultimate responsibility on day 1? What else could she have been thinking?

Some events of 2013:

According to Hird, the Essendon media conference on 5 February 2013 was in response to an imminent announcement by the Australian Crime Commission (ACC) regarding the use of performance enhancing substances in sport:

During his interview with ASADA, Hird contextualised the comments made by him during the media conference:



Hird: …There’s two things – two distinct memories I have: Firstly, I wanted to talk about the fact – I wanted to say that we hadn’t given – I was certain we hadn’t given performance enhancing drugs and I wanted to say it at a press conference, and I was advised if I said that I’d look stupid. And Gillon McLachlan was very strong in saying to me, “You can’t say that because it won’t be right.” I said, “Well, I want to say it.: I was talked out of saying that. And then it was advised to me by [Elizabeth] Lukin, the media manager, that I should accept ultimate responsibility. I should say whatever – I can’t even remember what I said, but ultimately I’m the one responsible …

Hird: My personal view is that the football club has a duty of care to its players and I am partly responsible for that duty of care.



ASADA said Ms Lukin has been asked on a number of occasions (directly and through her solicitor) to comment on Mr Hird’s allegation that his ‘acceptance of full responsibility’ was based on her advice. To date, Ms Lukin has not sought to rebut Mr Hird’s claim. She will however, not escape future scrutiny. I wonder if they call them subpoenas because they can torpedo their way almost anywhere.

 

[84859300]

Appreciate George Washington for asking permission and posting from behind BB's 'Fort Knox' walls - special mention to Bruce Francis for allowing his details to be published to all and sundry.

 

[mxett]

Courtesy of Bruce Francis on BB:

Posted with permission:

This is really interesting and confirms some of my assumptions about how things transpired. However, if Reid was on board from the very start why was any form of thymosin on the consents without a clear definition of which form it was?

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

Fair to say Elizabeth Lukin was an absolute snake. Would not surprise me if Hird was already painted as the scape goat and Elizabeth was sent in to shape the story to achieve that. Telling him to say he accepts ultimate responsibility on day 1? What else could she have been thinking?

Lukin is a campaigner and just one of the many seedy players in this debacle.
The Bruce Francis info would appear to be a pretty direct line to Hird, if that's his version (or part thereof) of events and he has watched/listened to 2 years of "DRUG CHEAT" accusations from all and sundry all the while being gagged by the club; can you for one second imagine the homicidal rage that you would have reading or hearing those very public accusations levelled against you? Ouch!

 

[Dan Cooper]

Caro's ramblings become pointless when she labors the same point over and over again. This is very much SOLELY a Caro crusade.

As Robbo had no hesitation saying some time back on SEN radio:

"Caroline Wilson is trying to destroy James Hird's life."

It is an ugly obsession she simply cannot refrain from.

 

[George Washington]

From what Bruce has written about Thompson as well, it's a joke he has been implicated and fined, and it makes sense now why he won't pay the fine.

Originally only Hird and Reid were going to be charged, and then when they wouldn't roll over they charged Thompson.

From what I can tell Thompson actually deserves to be congratulated for his efforts in trying to get Dank/Robinson in line.