Tigers Pre-Season 2015 - Open Training Friday @ Lavington

[JAKLAUGHING]

Don't think Astbury is a chance at all...

 

[sante]

Don't think Astbury is a chance at all...

Of?

 

[unfoley926]

Like to see Griffiths of the wing

 

[Cotcho]

Do you seriously think him not putting on weight is due to 'wasted calories'? No AFL player is ever going to cut out cardio from their pre-season.

All I know is that through my entire life I have always had a very very slender frame and at 18 looked much like McBean when he was drafted. Incredibly fast metabolism etc.

I went to the gym and just didn't seem to put on size. I was under the impression that I was just one of those people who doesn't gain weight...

Then I did a hell of a lot of research, a **** load. And learnt heaps about body building and realised that of course our bodies are all different but there's no such thing as "Can't put on weight".

Diet, getting enough calories is HUGE. There's a reason why most bodybuilders go through huge bulk periods where cardio is at an absolute minimum and they have huge calory surplus. They then cut down after that.

It's just stupid that he would be doing the volume of running that other players are doing. (Maybe he doesn't but the clip of him in the time trial seems to suggest it). And that's my problem. Why would the coaching staff even be interested in knowing what McBean can do over 3k!?! Get him to the right size he needs, which will translate to confidence....and if he can't run out games anymore...who cares. Build the base, then maintain the weight whilst increasing running. The other way around is just dumb.

When the one major reason why you are not playing in the seniors is because you look like a child....that's the area where you HAVE to work. Yes....keep a small base of running and maintain your skills and knowledge of structures....but mate....it's actually not that hard to put on 5-10kg over a pre-season. The coaching staff should be smart enough to classify Mcbean into his own group and give him a completely individual program.

 

[captain cotch 9]

All I know is that through my entire life I have always had a very very slender frame and at 18 looked much like McBean when he was drafted. Incredibly fast metabolism etc.

I went to the gym and just didn't seem to put on size. I was under the impression that I was just one of those people who doesn't gain weight...

Then I did a hell of a lot of research, a **** load. And learnt heaps about body building and realised that of course our bodies are all different but there's no such thing as "Can't put on weight".

Diet, getting enough calories is HUGE. There's a reason why most bodybuilders go through huge bulk periods where cardio is at an absolute minimum and they have huge calory surplus. They then cut down after that.

It's just stupid that he would be doing the volume of running that other players are doing. (Maybe he doesn't but the clip of him in the time trial seems to suggest it). And that's my problem. Why would the coaching staff even be interested in knowing what McBean can do over 3k!?! Get him to the right size he needs, which will translate to confidence....and if he can't run out games anymore...who cares. Build the base, then maintain the weight whilst increasing running. The other way around is just dumb.

When the one major reason why you are not playing in the seniors is because you look like a child....that's the area where you HAVE to work. Yes....keep a small base of running and maintain your skills and knowledge of structures....but mate....it's actually not that hard to put on 5-10kg over a pre-season. The coaching staff should be smart enough to classify Mcbean into his own group and give him a completely individual program.

Are you questioning why Mcbean had to do the 3km time trial?
Clubs use it to compare individuals times against themselves to make sure they are retaining a level of fitness or to make sure they are getting fitter.
Just because he is skinny dosnt mean he should do running sessions...

 

[leekok]

All I know is that through my entire life I have always had a very very slender frame and at 18 looked much like McBean when he was drafted. Incredibly fast metabolism etc.

I went to the gym and just didn't seem to put on size. I was under the impression that I was just one of those people who doesn't gain weight...

Then I did a hell of a lot of research, a **** load. And learnt heaps about body building and realised that of course our bodies are all different but there's no such thing as "Can't put on weight".

Diet, getting enough calories is HUGE. There's a reason why most bodybuilders go through huge bulk periods where cardio is at an absolute minimum and they have huge calory surplus. They then cut down after that.

It's just stupid that he would be doing the volume of running that other players are doing. (Maybe he doesn't but the clip of him in the time trial seems to suggest it). And that's my problem. Why would the coaching staff even be interested in knowing what McBean can do over 3k!?! Get him to the right size he needs, which will translate to confidence....and if he can't run out games anymore...who cares. Build the base, then maintain the weight whilst increasing running. The other way around is just dumb.

When the one major reason why you are not playing in the seniors is because you look like a child....that's the area where you HAVE to work. Yes....keep a small base of running and maintain your skills and knowledge of structures....but mate....it's actually not that hard to put on 5-10kg over a pre-season. The coaching staff should be smart enough to classify Mcbean into his own group and give him a completely individual program.

I think piling on 5 to 10kg in a pre season whilst still maintaining cardio fitness which is essential in today's game is different to bodybuilding. I'm only now just having to watch my figure. Late thirties. Relatively physical occupation. Could always eat and drink anything in excess. Now, pot gut is really a concern, fitness not quite what it used to be. That fast metabolism does eventually stop. God hep me. Never thought I'd have to watch the waist line.

 

[theflea]

All I know is that through my entire life I have always had a very very slender frame and at 18 looked much like McBean when he was drafted. Incredibly fast metabolism etc.

I went to the gym and just didn't seem to put on size. I was under the impression that I was just one of those people who doesn't gain weight...

Then I did a hell of a lot of research, a **** load. And learnt heaps about body building and realised that of course our bodies are all different but there's no such thing as "Can't put on weight".

Diet, getting enough calories is HUGE. There's a reason why most bodybuilders go through huge bulk periods where cardio is at an absolute minimum and they have huge calory surplus. They then cut down after that.

It's just stupid that he would be doing the volume of running that other players are doing. (Maybe he doesn't but the clip of him in the time trial seems to suggest it). And that's my problem. Why would the coaching staff even be interested in knowing what McBean can do over 3k!?! Get him to the right size he needs, which will translate to confidence....and if he can't run out games anymore...who cares. Build the base, then maintain the weight whilst increasing running. The other way around is just dumb.

When the one major reason why you are not playing in the seniors is because you look like a child....that's the area where you HAVE to work. Yes....keep a small base of running and maintain your skills and knowledge of structures....but mate....it's actually not that hard to put on 5-10kg over a pre-season. The coaching staff should be smart enough to classify Mcbean into his own group and give him a completely individual program.

The only problem with this idea, is AFL fitness base is crucial and probably even more than weight gain. They aren't mutually exclusive anymore. Beeny's nab cup game v the dees showed how much he fitness was behind what is required. Yes he needs to gain muscle, but he just cant do that without the running component.

 

[theflea]

I think piling on 5 to 10kg in a pre season whilst still maintaining cardio fitness which is essential in today's game is different to bodybuilding. I'm only now just having to watch my figure. Late thirties. Relatively physical occupation. Could always eat and drink anything in excess. Now, pot gut is really a concern, fitness not quite what it used to be. That fast metabolism does eventually stop. God hep me. Never thought I'd have to watch the waist line.

Same.

 

[Cotcho]

Are you questioning why Mcbean had to do the 3km time trial?
Clubs use it to compare individuals times against themselves to make sure they are retaining a level of fitness or to make sure they are getting fitter.
Just because he is skinny dosnt mean he should do running sessions...

I just saw him in the running session and it got me thinking...why after 2.5 preseasons hasn't put on size? Then I thought....hmmm, when I went from U18s to seniors i basically cut out cardio completely, hit the gym 5 times a week and consumed about 150g of protein a day and had 3000+ calories. I put on 10kg in 3 months. I then went back to footy with less endurance but supreme confidence that i was able to walk out of tackles and hold my own against men. I then built my tank and worked into games more and more as the season progressed but at least when the ball was near me I could contribute in a meaningful way. Previously to that I was a skinny kid wingman that basically got crushed every time i went near it in my couple of games in seniors as a junior.

I think piling on 5 to 10kg in a pre season whilst still maintaining cardio fitness which is essential in today's game is different to bodybuilding. I'm only now just having to watch my figure. Late thirties. Relatively physical occupation. Could always eat and drink anything in excess. Now, pot gut is really a concern, fitness not quite what it used to be. That fast metabolism does eventually stop. God hep me. Never thought I'd have to watch the waist line.

I'm saying that it is stupid to worry about his cardio fitness. From his first year it should have been spotted that....ok mate....

Skills: 8/10
Running: 6/10
Game knowledge and awareness: 7/10
Strength and size: 1/10

So for the next 6 months to a year you are doing 90% gym work and if your game suffers slightly in other areas that's ok because you are well below average in that area. After a year he would hopefully have changed to:

Skills: 7/10
Running: 4/10
Game knowledge and awareness: 7/10
Strength and size: 5/10

The point is McBean won't get a game again this year given his size IMO. He is too small and it doesn't matter if he is kicking goals and doing good things in the resies because the coaches are aware that in the seniors against bigger, faster, stronger defenders he will be useless. Even when he was jagging those bags....the coaches mentioned him but IMO was just for his confidence and I don't think he really was ever considered.

So instead of concentrating fully on that crucial aspect of his game in the first 2 years and then being worked into the seniors as a starter to be subbed out or subbed in during his 3rd season he will again be a non-afl ready player who will be potential and not truly push for selection. Hopefully his 4th year?? Who knows.

The only problem with this idea, is AFL fitness base is crucial and probably even more than weight gain. They aren't mutually exclusive anymore. Beeny's nab cup game v the dees showed how much he fitness was behind what is required. Yes he needs to gain muscle, but he just cant do that without the running component.

Now, probably no. Im not sure....but why not in the first 2 years when we were all aware that he wasn't going to play anyway?

And i disagree that fitness for a guy like him in his position is more important than size. No way.

 

[Stylo]

So apparently we're looking to field a side of mostly 23 and unders for NAB 1, with a view to easing in the seniors. Hoping for something like:

FB: Dea Astbury Grimes
HB: Vlastuin Elton Batchelor
C: McIntosh Martin Hunt
HF: Lennon McBean Menadue
FF: McDonough McKenzie Short
Fol: Griffiths C. Ellis Conca
Int: Drummond, Lambert, Gordon, Lloyd

 

[Cotcho]

More on Mcbean. Lol sorry everyone.

The logical response is to say....well what's the difference between gradually improving all areas, as in running and gym same time... compared to gaining size and then running!

Because mis amigos as I mentioned, that's not how the body works as shown in much bodybuilding research. The body won't change unless it is shocked into doing so by huge excess in resources and then by training specifically to add size. Ie a couple of hours a day at least in the gym of heavy weight lifting with lowish reps etc. And of course then the idea is to maintain the increased mass by increasing cardio etc. Everyone is surely aware that it is easier to maintain muscle and trim down than to build muscle whilst remaining lean. So by doing it that way it is simply faster.

 

[RockJobster0312]

My thoughts re: McBean is that the game is moving extremely quickly away from big boys banging in the forward line. We've seen with guys like Jeremy Cameron that you don't have to be 200/100 but need to be able to keep your feet, be able to read the play and react.

That is certainly not to say you must now be a beanpole, but I certainly don't think it is as imperative as previously. Look at Griffiths and Riewoldt - both have actively stated in the previous few seasons they have attempted to lose muscle and become more slimmer.

 

[theflea]

I just saw him in the running session and it got me thinking...why after 2.5 preseasons hasn't put on size? Then I thought....hmmm, when I went from U18s to seniors i basically cut out cardio completely, hit the gym 5 times a week and consumed about 150g of protein a day and had 3000+ calories. I put on 10kg in 3 months. I then went back to footy with less endurance but supreme confidence that i was able to walk out of tackles and hold my own against men. I then built my tank and worked into games more and more as the season progressed but at least when the ball was near me I could contribute in a meaningful way. Previously to that I was a skinny kid wingman that basically got crushed every time i went near it in my couple of games in seniors as a junior.



I'm saying that it is stupid to worry about his cardio fitness. From his first year it should have been spotted that....ok mate....

Skills: 8/10
Running: 6/10
Game knowledge and awareness: 7/10
Strength and size: 1/10

So for the next 6 months to a year you are doing 90% gym work and if your game suffers slightly in other areas that's ok because you are well below average in that area. After a year he would hopefully have changed to:

Skills: 7/10
Running: 4/10
Game knowledge and awareness: 7/10
Strength and size: 5/10

The point is McBean won't get a game again this year given his size IMO. He is too small and it doesn't matter if he is kicking goals and doing good things in the resies because the coaches are aware that in the seniors against bigger, faster, stronger defenders he will be useless. Even when he was jagging those bags....the coaches mentioned him but IMO was just for his confidence and I don't think he really was ever considered.

So instead of concentrating fully on that crucial aspect of his game in the first 2 years and then being worked into the seniors as a starter to be subbed out or subbed in during his 3rd season he will again be a non-afl ready player who will be potential and not truly push for selection. Hopefully his 4th year?? Who knows.



Now, probably no. Im not sure....but why not in the first 2 years when we were all aware that he wasn't going to play anyway?

And i disagree that fitness for a guy like him in his position is more important than size. No way.

It is when we are talking about AFL footy and the way its played ie fwds must run up and down the field to provide the full ground zoning. Plus his position isn't as the stay at home FF, or power fwd. He is essentially a tall HFFer and while gaining some size and strength is good, you cant sacrifice fitness for this. Also too remember half of what you gain over the preseason is lost during the year. Why not do both at the same time without sacrificing 1 for the other. I don't think you can compare local footy/weightlifting to AFL, which is the basis for your question. I think the reason is simply his job is to mainly play footy, not do massive weights which may impinge on him actually doing his job and that's play footy.

 

[Groupie_]

I would like to see Doggies go in full strength and us under 23's and we win

 

[JR82]

The only problem with this idea, is AFL fitness base is crucial and probably even more than weight gain. They aren't mutually exclusive anymore. Beeny's nab cup game v the dees showed how much he fitness was behind what is required. Yes he needs to gain muscle, but he just cant do that without the running component.

made worse by the fact that he was coming off that foot injury & barely had a pre-season at all

 

[bigstyletiger]

Lack of fitness held him back against the demons. He just looked gassed every time he got near it. He needs to run.

 

[DontArgue4]

Lids looks to be in full training going by the new training vid. Lennon has definitely put on some size, looks like a very good athlete.

 

[juss]

All I know is that through my entire life I have always had a very very slender frame and at 18 looked much like McBean when he was drafted. Incredibly fast metabolism etc.

I went to the gym and just didn't seem to put on size. I was under the impression that I was just one of those people who doesn't gain weight...

Then I did a hell of a lot of research, a **** load. And learnt heaps about body building and realised that of course our bodies are all different but there's no such thing as "Can't put on weight".

Diet, getting enough calories is HUGE. There's a reason why most bodybuilders go through huge bulk periods where cardio is at an absolute minimum and they have huge calory surplus. They then cut down after that.

It's just stupid that he would be doing the volume of running that other players are doing. (Maybe he doesn't but the clip of him in the time trial seems to suggest it). And that's my problem. Why would the coaching staff even be interested in knowing what McBean can do over 3k!?! Get him to the right size he needs, which will translate to confidence....and if he can't run out games anymore...who cares. Build the base, then maintain the weight whilst increasing running. The other way around is just dumb.

When the one major reason why you are not playing in the seniors is because you look like a child....that's the area where you HAVE to work. Yes....keep a small base of running and maintain your skills and knowledge of structures....but mate....it's actually not that hard to put on 5-10kg over a pre-season. The coaching staff should be smart enough to classify Mcbean into his own group and give him a completely individual program.

 

[RFC_Official]

Lack of fitness held him back against the demons. He just looked gassed every time he got near it. He needs to run.

Saw some pre-season stats, he's top 5 in total distance covered in pre-season so far.

 

[Morro]

Saw some pre-season stats, he's top 5 in total distance covered in pre-season so far.

That is awesome for him, but is a blight on our midfielders

 

[Morro]

It is when we are talking about AFL footy and the way its played ie fwds must run up and down the field to provide the full ground zoning. Plus his position isn't as the stay at home FF, or power fwd. He is essentially a tall HFFer and while gaining some size and strength is good, you cant sacrifice fitness for this. Also too remember half of what you gain over the preseason is lost during the year. Why not do both at the same time without sacrificing 1 for the other. I don't think you can compare local footy/weightlifting to AFL, which is the basis for your question. I think the reason is simply his job is to mainly play footy, not do massive weights which may impinge on him actually doing his job and that's play footy.

Bean will never be a stay at home fwd, he will never be strong enough to out wrestle the best full backs.
His game will need to be built around blowing up his opponents like Nick Roo does and just running them ragged.

I agree, heavy weights etc are not for him.

 

[RFC_Official]

That is awesome for him, but is a blight on our midfielders

Not really, as he started back in the first pre-season group (4 weeks before the 4+ year group) and did a lot of running early on.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Not really, as he started back in the first pre-season group (4 weeks before the 4+ year group) and did a lot of running early on.

Typical Hardwick.

 

[Morro]

Not really, as he started back in the first pre-season group (4 weeks before the 4+ year group) and did a lot of running early on.

Thanks legend, I was concerned.

 

[pebblestone]

Same.

Yep me too. Quite an adjustment having to actually think about what you eat.