Jason Dunstall vs Tony Lockett

[Monkey King]

Read the original question before you comment. It was 'whose career would you rather have, in a team sport?'.

I'd rather Lockett's career in Dunstall's team

 

[earlsta]

Both fantastic players and really it's unfair to compare them, I've seen them both play and I'd have to say Lockett, he was just an unbelievable talent. Probably the most accurate kick for goal I've ever seen. But really unfair to compare them because Dunstall was an absolute gun, just rate Lockett higher, his AFL legend's status also shows this.

He'd make AFL grade defenders look like they were under 18s.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Almost looks like a list of people Dunstall has worked closely with in the media or otherwise; while Lockett is basically a footy recluse. FWIW, others like Richo, Ricciuto, Matera, Robert Harvey, Chris Grant, Stynes, Voss and Tim Watson all rate Lockett more highly. Oh and Paul Roos too.

Most revealing for me though, is the opinion of a guy who played directly against both many times and is pretty well qualified for judging how good a fullforward is - Stephen Silvagni. In his top 5 players he'd seen list, he had Lockett a few players ahead of Dunstall.
.

Media commitments has nothing to do with it as most of these opinions were provided shortly after their retirement and long before any media involvement. The others that beleive Lockett is better is a perfectly valid opinion and emphasises my point that it can go either way and that one is not 'easily better' than the other - which I expect you'd agree with.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

so your argument as to why he is better is that you liked him more? great argument. Lockett had a lot worse supply, played at windy and boggy Moorabbin and still had a better average. far the superior player.

Same old tired arguments get trotted out in each of the quarterly incarnations of this thread.

The inverse to that argument is that Dunstall was perched amongst arguably the greatest forward line of all time. Buckenara, Brereton, Tony Hall, Jarman...all taking goals off him.

And Plugger did play on the windy and boggy Moorabbin. He also played on the postage-stamp sized SCG as well.

Realistically, how about something like Kelvin Moore vs David Dench? Very similar players, similar era in 2 successful teams of that era?

As much as Í loved Kel Moore, I'd take Dench in that one. He's the GOAT re. full-backs IMO.

Both are better than the "Full-Back of the Century" (SOS) though. As are Southby, Langford and probably more, but anyway...

 

[sr36]

He was actually a pretty complete player. I mean there are some people saying he wasn't a strong contested mark..... seriously.... why do people comment at all if they've never seen him play.

Strong hands, great on the lead, strong one on one, good on the ground, great defensively. There's a reason he is considered one of the greatest players EVER.

I swear if I hadn't actually had the privilege of attending a large majority of the games he played, I would just read this thread and think he was a luckbox who just happened to kick 1000+ goals due to the Darren's (Pritch/Jars) force feeding footy down his throat.

ALL TIME GREAT. Lockett may well be even better but Dunstall is not streets behind anyone in the history of the game and was certainly not just a great competitor - he was dominant.

I agree with most of that. Dunstall was undoubtedly an all time great and was the complete package. I just think that with modern defensive structures, forward play has become a damn site harder, due to the lack of space. To dominate - and Buddy is the only modern forward who comes close to earning that distinction - you need to either be an incredible pack mark or have amazing recovery so that you can do damage at ground level rather than just in the air- ala Buddy. Dunstall had the perfect skill set for his time. I just don't think that he'd be dominant in the modern era. He was a complete player, but the thing that made him an all time great was his ability to time his explosive leads and the fact that he had the strongest hands out in front that the game has seen. He'd still be bloody good, I just don't think that modern structures would enable his major weapon to do as much damage as it did in his time.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

You sure would have. I've seen a few scribes or ex-players who put Kernahan ahead, but he didn't have the aura of Dermie among fans. Sheehan for example had Sticks at no.33 in his best 50 players of all-time; Dermie didn't even make the 50. Kernahan is one of those players underrated by footy fans it seems, while his peers etc seem to rate him much higher than fans generally do.

I always thought Dermie was miles ahead of Sticks, until a few years back when one your posters convinced me maybe I'd got that wrong. Was either yourself or ODN. Pretty underrated is Sticks.

 

[Ricmel]

I always thought Dermie was miles ahead of Sticks, until a few years back when one your posters convinced me maybe I'd got that wrong. Was either yourself or ODN. Pretty underrated is Sticks.

I think Brereton was a great player. But Sticks was better. Second only to Carey at CHF in the last 30 years.

 

[nineteen eighty]

You sure would have. I've seen a few scribes or ex-players who put Kernahan ahead, but he didn't have the aura of Dermie among fans. Sheehan for example had Sticks at no.33 in his best 50 players of all-time; Dermie didn't even make the 50. Kernahan is one of those players underrated by footy fans it seems, while his peers etc seem to rate him much higher than fans generally do.

I don't want to derail this thread but a comparison between Kernahan and Brereton is not actually fair...Kernahan for me every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Kernahan was easily ahead of Brereton for mine.

And before Hawks supporters jump down my throat...I have already posted in this thread that I easily prefer Dunstall ahead of Plugger as FF in my team. Loved Dunstall as a team player and leader.

And re the Dench rating...agree with the poster above. Dench was a magnificent FB.

 

[yyou]

You are quite wrong. Dunstall was widely acclaimed for his chasing and tackling. He revolutionised this aspect of being a FF.

Agree with this with respect to chasing, the not enough mention is made of Aaron Davey who was iMO the forward who first made that a priority in his game.
As for the Lockett vs Dunstall question, I'm firmly in the Plugger crowd, despite having huge admiration for Dunstall
And in a close one Brereton over Kernahan as a CHF, but Sticks better as a FF
IMO for all

 

[joy division]

Dunstall played in a great team for a long period. He would have been even greater if he was the only good player in his side to kick it to.

 

[gavaniacono]

Agree with this with respect to chasing, the not enough mention is made of Aaron Davey who was iMO the forward who first made that a priority in his game.
As for the Lockett vs Dunstall question, I'm firmly in the Plugger crowd, despite having huge admiration for Dunstall
And in a close one Brereton over Kernahan as a CHF, but Sticks better as a FF
IMO for all

Plugger was awesome no doubt. I was at Moorabbin the day he destroyed crows and that Hughes fella, was it Danny? The most destructive thing I've seen. Choosing between the two FFs is tough. I'm highlighting an aspect of Dunstall s game that was better than Plugger. I am not sure who was the better FF overall. You couldn't go wrong with either.

Brereton v. Kernahan: I think Brerrton was clearly superior. He frequently stamped himself as a high impact player in the big games. Hate his commentary though, so many words to say FA.

 

[gavaniacono]

Same old tired arguments get trotted out in each of the quarterly incarnations of this thread.

The inverse to that argument is that Dunstall was perched amongst arguably the greatest forward line of all time. Buckenara, Brereton, Tony Hall, Jarman...all taking goals off him.

And Plugger did play on the windy and boggy Moorabbin. He also played on the postage-stamp sized SCG as well.



As much as Í loved Kel Moore, I'd take Dench in that one. He's the GOAT re. full-backs IMO.

Both are better than the "Full-Back of the Century" (SOS) though. As are Southby, Langford and probably more, but anyway...

Silvagni being nominated that title has always bamboozled me, as good as he was. South by was class. Drench also. We're the FFs they played against as a group THAT inferior to later FFs?

 

[gavaniacono]

Silvagni being nominated that title has always bamboozled me, as good as he was. South by was class. Drench also. We're the FFs they played against as a group THAT inferior to later FFs?

Drench. Did I really type that?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Yeah Ayres hey. All this talk this week of Enright possibly being the greatest back pocket ever.

Ayres was better.

How easily they forget

 

[Back One Out]

People say that Dunstall played in better teams than Lockett. Interesting that he won more Best and Fairest awards and polled more Brownlow votes. You'd think Plugger would've won many more Best and Fairest awards and polled more Brownlow votes with fewer quality teammates stealing his thunder.

Dunstall
14 seasons - 4 Best & Fairests
269 games - 129 Brownlow votes

Lockett
17 seasons - 3 Best & Fairests
281 games - 128 Brownlow votes


Most goals (season)
Dunstall - 145, 138, 132, 123, 102, 101, 94, 83, 82, 77
Lockett .- 132, 127, 121, 117, 110, 109, 82, 79, 78, 77

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Silvagni being nominated that title has always bamboozled me, as good as he was. South by was class. Drench also. We're the FFs they played against as a group THAT inferior to later FFs?

SOS' 95 finals series was the greatest performance by a FB in September in the history of the game (and would be in the top 5 of all time)

Plugger said at his legend induction speech at the HOF dinner a few weeks ago that Silvangi was the toughest opponent he played against.

Praise doesn't come any higher than that, I reckon

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Drench. Did I really type that?

I was more amused by your South by typo

 

[The Passenger]

Drench.... South by... Damn you autocorrect

 

[Damon_3388]

Drench. Did I really type that?

Did you really not just go back and edit your post?

 

[Monkey King]

Plugger said at his legend induction speech at the HOF dinner a few weeks ago that Silvangi was the toughest opponent he played against.

And Dunstall not only rates him the best FB he played against, but also in the top 5 players he's ever seen overall. Pretty high praise.

 

[gavaniacono]

Did you really not just go back and edit your post?

Leave the Freudian slip in there for posterity, I say!

 

[gavaniacono]

Drench.... South by... Damn you autocorrect

Auto correct, aka, the maker of fools.

 

[gavaniacono]

I was more amused by your South by typo

No offense meant I assure you! He was one of the key enemies of us in the 70s when every Carlton Richmond game was war.

 

[gavaniacono]

People say that Dunstall played in better teams than Lockett. Interesting that he won more Best and Fairest awards and polled more Brownlow votes. You'd think Plugger would've won many more Best and Fairest awards and polled more Brownlow votes with fewer quality teammates stealing his thunder.

Dunstall
14 seasons - 4 Best & Fairests
269 games - 129 Brownlow votes

Lockett
17 seasons - 3 Best & Fairests
281 games - 128 Brownlow votes


Most goals (season)
Dunstall - 145, 138, 132, 123, 102, 101, 94, 83, 82, 77
Lockett .- 132, 127, 121, 117, 110, 109, 82, 79, 78, 77

The fairest element may have come into play in the non Brownlow years.

 

[gavaniacono]

I think Brereton was a great player. But Sticks was better. Second only to Carey at CHF in the last 30 years.

Does the last 30 years proviso open the Rolls Royce Hart door?