Jason Dunstall vs Tony Lockett

[Brad Goodman]

I always thought Dermie was miles ahead of Sticks, until a few years back when one your posters convinced me maybe I'd got that wrong. Was either yourself or ODN. Pretty underrated is Sticks.

First rule of Bigfooty - never admit you're wrong, or may have been wrong on an earlier occasion, or may be wrong in the future.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Lockett to win a game, Dunstall to win a flag.

//.

 

[Monkey King]

Brereton v. Kernahan: I think Brerrton was clearly superior. He frequently stamped himself as a high impact player in the big games.

Not to ignore that Kernahan also has a genuinely outstanding record in finals and big games. FWIW Sticks sits at equal No.5 on the all-time list of goals kicked in finals (Brereton at 18) and played less finals than all above him on that list.

 

[Monkey King]

Lockett to win a game, Dunstall to win a flag.

//.

Not really sure what this means. Throw Lockett in that Hawk unit and he'd be a five time premiership player.

 

[Monkey King]

Does the last 30 years proviso open the Rolls Royce Hart door?

Given he retired nearly 40 years ago now, you'd think not.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Not really sure what this means. Throw Lockett in that Hawk unit and he'd be a five time premiership player.

Dunstall for mine would get you goals, share them around, tackle, do the team things, not get suspended, etc. He'd be there all year and help get you a flag even when not kicking goals.

Lockett could destroy a team in one match, but didn't share a lot, didn't tackle and would miss games through suspension, costing his team game.

I think fully fit Plugger was the slightly better player. If I wanted a player to help win me a flag it would be JD.

 

[Ricmel]

Does the last 30 years proviso open the Rolls Royce Hart door?

No, Hart finished around 1978 I think.

 

[Monkey King]

Lockett could destroy a team in one match, but didn't share a lot, didn't tackle and would miss games through suspension, costing his team game.

I think this is a bit of a furphy, as I have memories of Plugger chasing hard to lay tackles or round arm someone lol. So just looked at the tackle stats available from 1987 onwards and saw Dunstall only averaged 0.07 more tackles p/game ... MYTH BUSTED for me on this point. Particularly when you look at his tackling after moving up to Sydney in his good years, he's pretty much on par with Dunstall. I reckon this indicates that if you put him in a better team, with a better team ethic, Plugger would have been even better than he was early on.

If I was building a team of players I'd seen to win a flag, I'd have Lockett at FF without a second thought.

In saying that, Dunstall was a deadset champ and would have been so even if playing in a Saints side as bad as the ones Lockett played in. I never used to think that, but when the Hawks dropped away late in Dunstall's career he was super impressive with leadership and performance.

 

[Monkey King]

Media commitments has nothing to do with it as most of these opinions were provided shortly after their retirement and long before any media involvement. The others that beleive Lockett is better is a perfectly valid opinion and emphasises my point that it can go either way and that one is not 'easily better' than the other - which I expect you'd agree with.

Can you please give direct reference to when these comments were made, as I'm pretty sure a number of these guys had media involvement with Dunstall in or around the time they were asked for their opinions.

For me one is clearly better than the other, but not easily, which would indicate a sizable margin, which I don't believe there is. This of course is just my opinion. So I'm not surprised some may go with Dunstall, particularly those who are matey with him, while the majority would probably go with Lockett. As I suggested in my post, if deferring to the opinions of others, the ones I'd listen to most would be from those who played on both regularly.

 

[kazzooka]

There is no way a saints fan would swap Lockett for Dunstall. Never ever

Even if that meant getting a loyal player that wouldn't up and leave in his prime? A guy that would lift those around him and be an excellent leader? Someone who stays involved and continues to help the club long after playing? The guy that made sure you hired the right guy for your next coach, who would deliver 3 premierships?

Like the Judd/Hodge comparisons look at what the club gets from them in total vs what you get for a couple of years.

If you compare what Dunstall gave Hawthorn vs what Plugger gave StKilda you get 269 games (1254 goals) vs 183 games (898 goals). Plus Dunstall's service after he retired to Lockett's nothing. You would have a gun full forward every week instead of 12 games a year.

 

[WCE_phil]

Plugger was the slightly better player, Dunstall is the one you'd build a team around.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Even if that meant getting a loyal player that wouldn't up and leave in his prime? A guy that would lift those around him and be an excellent leader? Someone who stays involved and continues to help the club long after playing? The guy that made sure you hired the right guy for your next coach, who would deliver 3 premierships?

Like the Judd/Hodge comparisons look at what the club gets from them in total vs what you get for a couple of years.

If you compare what Dunstall gave Hawthorn vs what Plugger gave StKilda you get 269 games (1254 goals) vs 183 games (898 goals). Plus Dunstall's service after he retired to Lockett's nothing. You would have a gun full forward every week instead of 12 games a year.

Lockett lifted everyone in the club with his presence and he does not like the football spotlight.

Dunstall was a great player but Lockett had that special something about him.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

People claiming the Brownlow as an achievement for Lockett, yet claiming Lockett would have won flags with Hawthorn don't admit that J.D would have won a Brownlow at Saints maybe 2 a she didnt get suspended as often.

It's a silly argument IMO. Plugger was probably the better FF, but I wouldn't swap J.D with anyone. As a hawks fan growing up through the 80's I was very happy following a team winning flags. Best Players i dont care for. Best teams(flags) are all that matter.

 

[dickster]

"Plugger was the slightly better player, Dunstall is the one you'd build a team around."

I don't get it if Plugger was the better player, wouldn't you build a team around him? If his career was plagued by injuries and cut short, id understand, but it wasn't. He kicked a record amount of goals and won a Brownlow. All he needed was a great team like Dunstall had.
The closest he ever had was playing for the Vics in State of Origin. In that game Plugger got best on ground and absolutely destroyed them! Anyone who says he never chased, tackled or passed should watch that again.

Seeing Lockett, Ablett and Dunstall play was brilliant. I wish todays game still played the traditional FF position. I know id be watching if it did!

 

[dickster]

Im not sure why SOS is so hated but i still think he's the greatest FB of all time. He played against the best forwards of all time and could also kick a bag up forward!
He was a champion player.

 

[wce4premiership]

Some of these arguments are ridiculous. I'd take Dunstall, but definitely not by much.

 

[tige19]

How can you split the 2? It's like saying Matthews was better than Ablett Snr!! It's nigh on impossible to seperate. The AFL don't have a Jordan, someone who has been unrivalled in the history of the sport, no one can legitamately make a case for a better baller. We can all make cases for the Dunstalls/Locketts/Careys/Abletts/Matthews.

 

[nineteen eighty]

How can you split the 2? It's like saying Matthews was better than Ablett Snr!! It's nigh on impossible to seperate. The AFL don't have a Jordan, someone who has been unrivalled in the history of the sport, no one can legitamately make a case for a better baller. We can all make cases for the Dunstalls/Locketts/Careys/Abletts/Matthews.

Ablett may have the better highlights reel but I would take Matthews every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I really did love watching Ablett play but Matthews for mine is GOAT.

Sheeet look what I've started now...

 

[bombersfan4000]

Not really sure what this means. Throw Lockett in that Hawk unit and he'd be a five time premiership player.

plus a more impressive goal kicking record

 

[Back One Out]

And Dunstall not only rates him the best FB he played against, but also in the top 5 players he's ever seen overall. Pretty high praise.

How can SOS be amongst the top five greatest players of all time when those spots are already taken by Nicholls, Doull, Jezza, Williams and Judd ?

 

[Beerfish]

Lockett in a canter.

Knows when to stfu.

 

[00Stinger]

Dunstall played in a great team for a long period. He would have been even greater if he was the only good player in his side to kick it to.

dumbest post I have read for a while

 

[Northworth]

Plugger
just phenomenal

 

[Bloods]

Both would be in my top half a dozen.

Dunstall was a complete superstar and got absolutely everything out of himself.

Plugger was better and it's frightening to think how much he could've done if he'd been managed well in those early years. He was devastating. Watch the 1991 EF if you want to remind yourself of just how good he was.

7 goals or more 72 times. Unbelievable.

 

[Davo23]

As a Hawthorn supporter, Plugger was one scary, batshit monster.
He'd smash defenders physically and kick 10 goals at the same time: the greatest St Kilda player I ever saw.

He was like a footballer that ISIS would create.

I loved Jason Dunstall, but I only saw him from our team's point of view: he just did the business.