Roast Rants, off-topic banter, who ignores who & what Greg Williams' relatives know

[George]

See i interpreted that differently to you. To me that means all st kilda home games are at ethihad. Which given many people are rolled over from the year before, before the fixture is released they could be forgiven for interpreting it that way.

The other issue here is that previously they did not have to pay for a booking fee if they were a reserved seat holder? Right?

The other issue is that in the FAQ, terms of condition and the shit membership website (which is extremely hard to find info) it carefully points out what extra costs you may have to incurr and what the membership gives.

Absolutely no where did it mention there would be a home game at the MCG that would require reserved seat holders to fork out a booking fee

If this is the way the club sees themselves doing business moving forward, what other undocumented costs could supporters be hit with?

For one this is an ticketing agency issue and two the terms have been clearly stated and are, I would've thought, pretty straight forward. Home games at Etihad Stadium. Nothing more. If members have rolled over and upon seeing the game has been moved to the MCG to accommodate a bigger crowd and profit for the club, then they can revoke their membership and be refunded. If there's anyone that has complaints about this issue they should take it up with ticketek. Like many in here have said it has nothing to do with the club. Yes it would've been nice to have informed members about the potential additional fees but they are not obligated to do so.

 

[George]

I understand people's frustrations on the topic but the club makes 4-5 times more revenue from a home game at the MCG as opposed to Etihad. So if you are a supporter of the club you should suck it up and get over it. I'm worried that this is such a big issue to some.

 

[Defacto]

For one this is an ticketing agency issue and two the terms have been clearly stated and are, I would've thought, pretty straight forward. Home games at Etihad Stadium. Nothing more. If members have rolled over and upon seeing the game has been moved to the MCG to accommodate a bigger crowd and profit for the club, then they can revoke their membership and be refunded. If there's anyone that has complaints about this issue they should take it up with ticketek. Like many in here have said it has nothing to do with the club. Yes it would've been nice to have informed members about the potential additional fees but they are not obligated to do so.

Well for starters it isnt clear. Hence all of the criticism directed at the club here and on social media

How arent they obligated to do so? They are the seller here not the ticketing agency. If i want a refund on my membership like you suggested, i dont go to ticketek or ticketmaster, i go to the club. Each club will have its different products that entitle you to different access and terms. How the ticketing costs get covered will change depending on the ground, game and club, but its all wrapped up into the membership.

Members bought a product that they expected to cover their reserved seat. They didnt expect to get hit with more charges. Any extra charge that is even remotely possible was documented on the website and in the terms and conditions. This was not documented anywhere, so people are rightfully going to feel gouged.

Like i said before when finals or other home and away games have been moved from etihad to the mcg or vice versa, were reserved ticket holders hit up for a booking fee?

This may have resulted from the actions of the ticketing agency but thats for the club to negotiate with them as they've sold the product to the customer. To simply pass on the cost to the customer is poor form.

Lack of transparency and pretty unethical and not something i want to see at the club i follow

 

[Defacto]

I understand people's frustrations on the topic but the club makes 4-5 times more revenue from a home game at the MCG as opposed to Etihad. So if you are a supporter of the club you should suck it up and get over it. I'm worried that this is such a big issue to some.

Im not sure supporters should suck up anything here. It shows a lack of transparency and unethical behaviour

If its such a small issue the club could have eaten up the 2.50 fee for each ticket booked.

 

[George]

Haha I still don't understand how this isn't clear.

Reserved seat = Home games at Etihad Stadium.

I mean really is there much more to it than that?

 

[Defacto]

Haha I still don't understand how this isn't clear.

Reserved seat = Home games at Etihad Stadium.

I mean really is there much more to it than that?

Well yeh the part where you are hit with a 2.50 booking fee when the game has been moved to the MCG

I guess people who's membership rolled over should have been able to predict the future and know that:
A) the game would be at the MCG i.e. there would be st kilda home games not at etihad
B) there would be a booking fee

Side note: who reads the t&c's. I thought people just trusted the club to do the right thing

 

[Defacto]

Joffa how did you go with the accc?

 

[George]

Well yeh the part where you are hit with a 2.50 booking fee when the game has been moved to the MCG

I guess people who's membership rolled over should have been able to predict the future and know that:
A) the game would be at the MCG i.e. there would be st kilda home games not at etihad
B) there would be a booking fee

Side note: who reads the t&c's. I thought people just trusted the club to do the right thing

You do realize that people have the option to not automatically rollover their membership, right? You make it seem as though the members are slaves to the club. Lol it's as if members are tied into some lifetime binding agreement that will have the club rollover their details year on year.

Again if you had read the terms and conditions you would understand it. What I'm reading is a lot 'I want to have my cake and eat it too'

 

[Defacto]

You do realize that people have the option to not automatically rollover their membership, right? You make it seem as though the members are slaves to the club. Lol it's as if members are tied into some lifetime binding agreement that will have the club rollover their details year on year.

Again if you had read the terms and conditions you would understand it. What I'm reading is a lot 'I want to have my cake and eat it too'

No im not. My point is you are defending a 2.50 price gouge thats come into play quite late by using a one liner buried deep in the T&Cs. Its ok getting hit with this 2.50 because technically you shouldnt get the game at all even though membership was onsale before the fixture was announced and before anyone knew the game was going to be at the mcg

Oh and its also not mentioned in any of the other communication anywhere. Not in the t&c, not in the FAQ, not in the product descriptions. Even though all other charges are.

T&Cs by the way that the majority of members wouldnt read as they just roll over the membership (remember the 90% renewal). Pretty sure they dont read them over the phone when you sign up either

So much for your transparency you were banging on about a couple of pages back

So please point me to where in the t&cs it mentions the booking fee given you think if i had read it i would understand

 

[George]

No im not. My point is you are defending a 2.50 price gouge thats come into play quite late by using a one liner buried deep in the T&Cs. Its ok getting hit with this 2.50 because technically you shouldnt get the game at all even though membership was onsale before the fixture was announced and before anyone knew the game was going to be at the mcg

Oh and its also not mentioned in any of the other communication anywhere. Not in the t&c, not in the FAQ, not in the product descriptions. Even though all other charges are.

T&Cs by the way that the majority of members wouldnt read as they just roll over the membership (remember the 90% renewal). Pretty sure they dont read them over the phone when you sign up either

So much for your transparency you were banging on about a couple of pages back

So please point me to where in the t&cs it mentions the booking fee given you think if i had read it i would understand

Mate please it's not deep in the terms and conditions, it's on the Saints website. Go look for yourself.

 

[George]

T&Cs by the way that the majority of members wouldnt read as they just roll over the membership (remember the 90% renewal). Pretty sure they dont read them over the phone when you sign up either

Lol you give me hell for defending my footy club yet you want to give the members an out by saying stuff like this...mate if you don't read the terms and conditions that's your problem not the club.

 

[Defacto]

Lol you give me hell for defending my footy club yet you want to give the members an out by saying stuff like this...mate if you don't read the terms and conditions that's your problem not the club.

You keep avoiding this. Where in the terms and conditions does it mention there will be a 2.50 booking fee for reserved seat holders

You are grasping at a one liner in the t&cs that was there before the fixture was even announced

 

[Defacto]

Mate please it's not deep in the terms and conditions, it's on the Saints website. Go look for yourself.

Nah its not... righto. Meanwhile you have to scroll half way down the page to find it after having to google specifically for it. 1 liner in probably 2000 lines of text. Something the majority of people wont read as their membership is rolled over or they sign up over the phone or by email. They dont then run you over the t&cs like a phone or internet company does.

Anyways this argument about the T&Cs is hilarious. Its clinging to absolutely anything you can find and i hope the club doesnt have this same response to peoples concerns. The t&cs about home games have absolutely nothing to do with the booking fee people are discussing here. Great organisations own their mistakes, i hope we are rather than fobbing people off with poor excuses. What concerns me is this is another example of poor communication that has created tension between supporters. 2nd example this year.

It was this poor communication that saw me cancel my families membership a couple season back. When then GM of the membership dept tried to tell me the club never said they would bring the strategic 2020 launch to each capital city. When i linked her to it, her response was "i was unaware of that". No response to try and correct the issue.

Anyways what amazing transparency you were writing about a couple of pages back. Looks crystal clear

 

[George]

You keep avoiding this. Where in the terms and conditions does it mention there will be a 2.50 booking fee for reserved seat holders

You are grasping at a one liner in the t&cs that was there before the fixture was even announced

Not grasping at anything. It's in the terms and conditions. What more would you like?

Nah its not... righto. Meanwhile you have to scroll half way down the page to find it after having to google specifically for it. 1 liner in probably 2000 lines of text. Something the majority of people wont read as their membership is rolled over or they sign up over the phone or by email. They dont then run you over the t&cs like a phone or internet company does.

Haha does it have to be mentioned every second sentence does it? If it's in there, it's in there. And it is. Nice try though...

Anyways this argument about the T&Cs is hilarious. Its clinging to absolutely anything you can find and i hope the club doesnt have this same response to peoples concerns. The t&cs about home games have absolutely nothing to do with the booking fee people are discussing here. Great organisations own their mistakes, i hope we are rather than fobbing people off with poor excuses. What concerns me is this is another example of poor communication that has created tension between supporters. 2nd example this year.

It's a shame you cannot grasp simple concepts here mate. The terms and conditions about home games has everything to do with the booking fee because it states it's a reserved seat for games only at Etihad Stadium. Correct me if I'm wrong but this game is at the MCG. Again it's a shame that you fail to realize this is a ticketing agency issue, every club would have to go through the same process for high demand/capacity games. The fact that members weren't spoon fed this information from the club means nothing. Take some responsibility and find out for yourself. St.Kilda has offered a product to customers that does not include reserved seats for games at the MCG.

It was this poor communication that saw me cancel my families membership a couple season back. When then GM of the membership dept tried to tell me the club never said they would bring the strategic 2020 launch to each capital city. When i linked her to it, her response was "i was unaware of that". No response to try and correct the issue.

Don't know what this has to do with anything. Read your terms and conditions.

Anyways what amazing transparency you were writing about a couple of pages back. Looks crystal clear

It's crystal clear to people who have common sense mate after all this time I would've thought it's a very simple concept to understand. I guess not.

 

[Defacto]

Not grasping at anything. It's in the terms and conditions. What more would you like?


Haha does it have to be mentioned every second sentence does it? If it's in there, it's in there. And it is. Nice try though...


It's a shame you cannot grasp simple concepts here mate. The terms and conditions about home games has everything to do with the booking fee because it states it's a reserved seat for games only at Etihad Stadium. Correct me if I'm wrong but this game is at the MCG. Again it's a shame that you fail to realize this is a ticketing agency issue, every club would have to go through the same process for high demand/capacity games. The fact that members weren't spoon fed this information from the club means nothing. Take some responsibility and find out for yourself. St.Kilda has offered a product to customers that does not include reserved seats for games at the MCG.


Don't know what this has to do with anything. Read your terms and conditions.


It's crystal clear to people who have common sense mate after all this time I would've thought it's a very simple concept to understand. I guess not.

Ok where in the T&Cs does it mention the booking fee. Ive asked this several times and you keep avoiding the question

These t&cs were written before the fixture was announced. Do you expect them to know that the game would have been moved?

Why do the T&Cs mention all other costs that could be incurred but not the booking fee? Why does the membership website which is the worst ive ever seen mention all the other costs but not the booking fee? Why does the faq mention all other costs but not the booking fee?

What happened in previous seasons when a game was moved from the MCG to etihad or the other way around? Was a booking fee applicable?

How were supporters to know one of their home games would be at the MCG?

As i said earlier prior to the fixture being announced it reads as if all our home games would be at etihad

But your right the fans should take responsibility here. Not the club. Not the ticketing agency. Not the AFL. They should have predicted the fixture then some how imagined a booking fee would be applicable

Piss poor communication again

 

[George]

Ok where in the T&Cs does it mention the booking fee. Ive asked this several times and you keep avoiding the question

Ok where in the T&C's does it mention that the reserved seat membership gives you access to games outside of Etihad Stadium? I've asked this several times and you keep avoiding the question

These t&cs were written before the fixture was announced. Do you expect them to know that the game would have been moved?

Now regardless when it was announced, the terms and conditions do not state how MANY home games you are entitled to. If it said 11 home games in Victoria then sure you have a point otherwise I see nothing wrong here. It states games at Etihad Stadium. Doesn't give a specific number of games.

Why do the T&Cs mention all other costs that could be incurred but not the booking fee? Why does the membership website which is the worst ive ever seen mention all the other costs but not the booking fee? Why does the faq mention all other costs but not the booking fee?

Because it's not part of the reserved seat membership package obviously. It's mentioned in the general admission T's&C's because that's always subject to capacity but if a product is being sold for home games at Etihad and nothing more, then you would expect that for any other game that's in high demand you may have to pay extra. Why does this need to be covered in the reserved seat membership T's&C's? They've already outlined what is included. Whatever isn't there isn't included. Very simple...

What happened in previous seasons when a game was moved from the MCG to etihad or the other way around? Was a booking fee applicable?

Haha you think every season is the same? Was it the same back in the 80's was it?

How were supporters to know one of their home games would be at the MCG?

Well you have a point there, the game was moved. But it doesn't affect the membership type that we are talking about whatsoever, because the membership type we are talking about doesn't state how many games you'd be entitled to have reserved seat access for.

As i said earlier prior to the fixture being announced it reads as if all our home games would be at etihad

That's right, but again it doesn't state how many of those games you are entitled to. It doesn't say all home games. It says home games at Etihad.

But your right the fans should take responsibility here. Not the club. Not the ticketing agency. Not the AFL. They should have predicted the fixture then some how imagined a booking fee would be applicable

Companies have an obligation to inform consumers of their rights and their terms/conditions of sale. The club has done this, quite clearly. The club however is not responsible for spoon feeding every consumer into a step-by-step guide on the way to go about purchasing from them. Consumers have to take some responsibility for their own actions. People aren't stupid. If they want to cancel their membership and not roll-over into the following year they can do so. Nobody is tying anyone down and harassing them for money. If you are one of these people you need to quit relying on people to do your research for you. You make choices and decisions yourself, I'd hope, and if a club has outlined what is in their membership packages and you still have an issue with that or can't comprehend it then it isn't the clubs fault, it's yours.

Piss poor communication again

Disagree.

 

[Defacto]

Ok where in the T&C's does it mention that the reserved seat membership gives you access to games outside of Etihad Stadium? I've asked this several times and you keep avoiding the question


Now regardless when it was announced, the terms and conditions do not state how MANY home games you are entitled to. If it said 11 home games in Victoria then sure you have a point otherwise I see nothing wrong here. It states games at Etihad Stadium. Doesn't give a specific number of games.


Because it's not part of the reserved seat membership package obviously. It's mentioned in the general admission T's&C's because that's always subject to capacity but if a product is being sold for home games at Etihad and nothing more, then you would expect that for any other game that's in high demand you may have to pay extra. Why does this need to be covered in the reserved seat membership T's&C's? They've already outlined what is included. Whatever isn't there isn't included. Very simple...


Haha you think every season is the same? Was it the same back in the 80's was it?


Well you have a point there, the game was moved. But it doesn't affect the membership type that we are talking about whatsoever, because the membership type we are talking about doesn't state how many games you'd be entitled to have reserved seat access for.


That's right, but again it doesn't state how many of those games you are entitled to. It doesn't say all home games. It says home games at Etihad.


Companies have an obligation to inform consumers of their rights and their terms/conditions of sale. The club has done this, quite clearly. The club however is not responsible for spoon feeding every consumer into a step-by-step guide on the way to go about purchasing from them. Consumers have to take some responsibility for their own actions. People aren't stupid. If they want to cancel their membership and not roll-over into the following year they can do so. Nobody is tying anyone down and harassing them for money. If you are one of these people you need to quit relying on people to do your research for you. You make choices and decisions yourself, I'd hope, and if a club has outlined what is in their membership packages and you still have an issue with that or can't comprehend it then it isn't the clubs fault, it's yours.


Disagree.

Youve lost me now mate. You are no longer someone who i will consider looks at an issue and decides for themselves what is acceptable and unacceptable. You will just blindly defend the club

This is a club people should be able to trust and know they will deal with them fairly and reasonably. Not be shafted by an ambiguous one liner in the T&Cs that in no way describes the scenario people are aggrieved by. Its a desperate attempt to defend a collapse in communication somewhere between the AFL, the ticketing agency, the club and its members.

At the time of signing up they were entitled to all home games at etihad. The club moved this game due to demand. Previously when this has occurred there has been no cost past onto reserved seat holders. See wellington or any other move. This is the same as what is occurring at other clubs right now, they swallow the cost not the fan. If cost is going to be past on it is clearly communicated at the time of their purchase not months after. This is how good businesses and clubs operate.

You can keep grabbing at the etihad home games line but in the end you agree with me. See you first sentence and then further down in your response where you agree with me.

The club hasnt communicated this clearly. If they did they wouldnt be such a heated discussion right now nor on social media.

Its funny that other clubs dont have this issue right now.

 

[George]

Youve lost me now mate. You are no longer someone who i will consider looks at an issue and decides for themselves what is acceptable and unacceptable. You will just blindly defend the club

This is a club people should be able to trust and know they will deal with them fairly and reasonably. Not be shafted by an ambiguous one liner in the T&Cs that in no way describes the scenario people are aggrieved by. Its a desperate attempt to defend a collapse in communication somewhere between the AFL, the ticketing agency, the club and its members.

At the time of signing up they were entitled to all home games at etihad. The club moved this game due to demand. Previously when this has occurred there has been no cost past onto reserved seat holders. See wellington or any other move. This is the same as what is occurring at other clubs right now, they swallow the cost not the fan. If cost is going to be past on it is clearly communicated at the time of their purchase not months after. This is how good businesses and clubs operate.

You can keep grabbing at the etihad home games line but in the end you agree with me. See you first sentence and then further down in your response where you agree with me.

The club hasnt communicated this clearly. If they did they wouldnt be such a heated discussion right now nor on social media.

Its funny that other clubs dont have this issue right now.

Haha

 

[George]

It's in the terms and conditions mate I don't know what more you need. I think you just like to nitpick issues.

 

[George]

They were entitled to all home games at etihad.

So I'm guessing you understand now.

 

[George]

You should send all this to the ACCC mate let me know what they say about it

 

[Defacto]

It's in the terms and conditions mate I don't know what more you need. I think you just like to nitpick issues.

After asking the question on the main board it seems it has been poorly communicated by the saints and its something that should have been clearly outlined in the product description. Just as we have done in previous years

Its becoming more and more clear that the issue here is the appalling new membership website and how changes to the product are not being communicated to members

You can defend it all you want but the club has ****ed up here by not clearly setting the right expectation here.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think at around pick 30 he is expensive. About a third of those type of picks make it so if he doesn't he going in the majority category. No huge risk as far as I can see.

I sir, resent your balanced viewpoint. Anyway WTF did you do on SS- it sounds like you are officially life banned? You must have been in some serious form.

 

[plugger66]

I sir, resent your balanced viewpoint. Anyway WTF did you do on SS- it sounds like you are officially life banned? You must have been in some serious form.

No it was my mates and some people I didn't know. It was my fault though as I said go your hardest but they went far to hard by the sounds of it. I'm better off our of there anyway. The guy in charge isn't what I would call a good bloke.

Anyway lets hope for all our sake Freeman makes it and Carlisle comes back better than ever next season.

 

[Defacto]

No it was my mates and some people I didn't know. It was my fault though as I said go your hardest but they went far to hard by the sounds of it. I'm better off our of there anyway. The guy in charge isn't what I would call a good bloke.

Anyway lets hope for all our sake Freeman makes it and Carlisle comes back better than ever next season.

so what happened? threaten to punch on or something?