MVP Tommy Boyd - The Grand Final Enigma

[True Dog]

On his current trajectory I have him somewhere between a 7 to 7.5. I think his natural development and physical attributes almost (I said almost) ensure this. God forbid he ever finds the inner mongrel/beast that I'm not sure he possesses because the sky's the limit..

 

[Yojimbo]

Sorry Pann, but i thought i would do my own list of greats.

1- Ayce Cordy
2- Will Minson
3- Ben Brown
4- Josh Jenkins
5- David Hale
6- Peter Everitt
7- Peter Moore
8- Paul Salmon
9- Simon Madden
10- Tony Lockett

Tom Boyd could fit anywhere from Ben Brown to Peter Everitt.

 

[flipper83]

Watching Tom at the moment I feel like he has too much going on in his head. It's like he has to think about everything he does and nothing is instinctive.
Think he may be feeling a lot of pressure at the moment.

 

[immortalmike]

Friendly reminder that Joe Daniher who is two years older had a game on the weekend where he didn't take a mark until the last quarter.
Shit games happen. Development isn't a smooth trajectory.

 

[Yojimbo]

Friendly reminder that Joe Daniher who is two years older had a game on the weekend where he didn't take a mark until the last quarter.
Shit games happen. Development isn't a smooth trajectory.

If you take Joe Daniher's run and jump away from him he is done, Tom
Lonergan did just that. The only mark he took was well up the ground
and had no effect on the game. Shit games only happen when there
is no plan B or when a players skill set is all or nothing.

 

[immortalmike]

If you take Joe Daniher's run and jump away from him he is done, Tom
Lonergan did just that. The only mark he took was well up the ground
and had no effect on the game. Shit games only happen when there
is no plan B or when a players skill set is all or nothing.

Don't agree at all. He normally leads pretty well and didn't even register a chest mark and dropped several. He just had a shitty game.

 

[Yojimbo]

Don't agree at all. He normally leads pretty well and didn't even register a chest mark and dropped several. He just had a shitty game.

Geelong have an overly tall defensive group which in itself makes it hard for
tall forwards to get a good run and jump at the ball. He was poor, but if
John Worsfold had watched the GWS vs Geelong game he may have tried
to vary his forward structure and ball delivery a little.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Friendly reminder that Joe Daniher who is two years older had a game on the weekend where he didn't take a mark until the last quarter.
Shit games happen. Development isn't a smooth trajectory.

And Tom Hawkins looked like the Queen Mary, shit hands and slow. Shit happens.

Geelong have an overly tall defensive group which in itself makes it hard for
tall forwards to get a good run and jump at the ball. He was poor, but if
John Worsfold had watched the GWS vs Geelong game he may have tried
to vary his forward structure and ball delivery a little.

Orrrrrrrrrrrr he played on a 30-something year old mature bodies that said to the young, inexperienced body, "not today, man!"
But let's run with structure, not immaturity.

 

[fargy]

Won't be long and we'll all be like this dude from Varsity Blues.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

I know many of you are waiting for a haul and that will be his moment. I don't think so.

It is changing, i just finished watching last week and this weeks games. i am seeing his agression levels rise while in the ruck, probably in part why Bevo has him there for such a large %, Ruckman are notoriusly dirty and angry, he is getting slightly more pissed by the game having to deal with them.

When Boyd starts getting pissed off at the umps ignoring the tactics being used against him, when he gives the defender return treatment and has the free called against him, when he gives a team mate the death stare for ignoring his lead or call, all these signs will signal the penny is dropping. But him kicking 10 next week, will signal nothing but a bad show from the opponent. His attitude on the field is childlike and that's where the issues are. GWS knew this, he is passive, but has none of the arrogant flair to compensate, throw in some self doubt and pressure...

When the penny drops, I honestly believe he has the potential to be a 9. For all the mental stuff going on in his head right now, he is like a 16 year old, who hasn't fully grasped it won't just happen for him like it has before, just by training harder. It is a change in mind set that is needed.

 

[Yojimbo]

And Tom Hawkins looked like the Queen Mary, shit hands and slow. Shit happens.


Orrrrrrrrrrrr he played on a 30-something year old mature bodies that said to the young, inexperienced body, "not today, man!"
But let's run with structure, not immaturity.

So you are saying Tom Lonergan played to his strengths and in the
process took away Joe Daniher's strength which is his ability to run
and jump and mark the ball at it's highest point. I believe i said the
exact same thing at the top of this page.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

So you are saying Tom Lonergan played to his strengths and in the
process took away Joe Daniher's strength which is his ability to run
and jump and mark the ball at it's highest point. I believe i said the
exact same thing at the top of this page.

What I'm saying is that if Tom Lonergan plays to the best of his current ability and Joe Daniher plays to the best of his current ability, Daniher goes stat less more often than not.

 

[Yojimbo]

What I'm saying is that if Tom Lonergan plays to the best of his current ability and Joe Daniher plays to the best of his current ability, Daniher goes stat less more often than not.

You have a strange way of agreeing with me, anyhow back to the party
bus.

 

[LittleG]

I know many of you are waiting for a haul and that will be his moment. I don't think so.

It is changing, i just finished watching last week and this weeks games. i am seeing his agression levels rise while in the ruck, probably in part why Bevo has him there for such a large %, Ruckman are notoriusly dirty and angry, he is getting slightly more pissed by the game having to deal with them.

When Boyd starts getting pissed off at the umps ignoring the tactics being used against him, when he gives the defender return treatment and has the free called against him, when he gives a team mate the death stare for ignoring his lead or call, all these signs will signal the penny is dropping. But him kicking 10 next week, will signal nothing but a bad show from the opponent. His attitude on the field is childlike and that's where the issues are. GWS knew this, he is passive, but has none of the arrogant flair to compensate, throw in some self doubt and pressure...

When the penny drops, I honestly believe he has the potential to be a 9. For all the mental stuff going on in his head right now, he is like a 16 year old, who hasn't fully grasped it won't just happen for him like it has before, just by training harder. It is a change in mind set that is needed.

Great post. Was just catching up on the thread and was about to talk about this in particular. Am waiting for him to learn to be a bit dirty and get that confidence. Love how the ruck is teaching him this. As much as I hate him in the ruck, this may be the making of him. Great coaching if this is why he is there....
Potential 10 but think he will get to 9/10, as ground ball skills will be his missing element. Floor is 5, which he is almost at.

 

[Del165892]

ITT: people who have never spoken to Boyd and only seen him on TV claiming to have great insight into his mindset.

 

[timtamWB]

ITT: people who have never spoken to Boyd and only seen him on TV claiming to have great insight into his mindset.

Welcome to Bigfooty.

 

[immortalmike]

On the whole aggression thing. I think we're going a bit over the top about it. Intensity is important but aggression is overrated. Chris Grant was the least aggressive player I've ever watched but he was also probably the best.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

people that think simple body language, facial recognition and form after what? 50hour of football!? Not to mentions 100+ years of footballers and sportpeople in general fitting every possible mould like a form guide. = great insight, rather then simple observation.

Happy, person smiles, sad, person frowns... hang on i'm sure i have a Dr Suess here somewhere that covers this basic human ability, which just so happens to be the purpose of a forum... funny that

On the whole aggression thing. I think we're going a bit over the top about it. Intensity is important but aggression is overrated. Chris Grant was the least aggressive player I've ever watched but he was also probably the best.

True, intensity, i call it aggression rather then violence or thuggery. But yes, last thing i want is for Boyd to lose his shit and start Ljizzing or worse, chucking a Jack riewolt hissy fit.

 

[immortalmike]

True, intensity, i call it aggression rather then violence or thuggery. But yes, last thing i want is for Boyd to lose his shit and start Ljizzing or worse, chucking a Jack riewolt hissy fit.

Was talking more about how people will go crazy after a hard tackle, or a big bump. Sure they're fun but I'd rather a big strong mark or hard ball get.

 

[Fultons]

Do not normally post negative comments but I just do not see Tommy becoming a star. Yes he will improve but if you are not good below your knees as a key forward you need to be able to take a few big grabs a game. Other than that mark against pies in the NAB cup I have seen very few strong grabs.

At the time of recruiting him I said to my football mad Carlton mate I like our balls at being able to get him but I sure to hell hope he will be a star for pick 6/ Griffen and the cost of the contract.

I think from memory if we did not to the deal we would have got pick 5 from GWS kept 6 and had more room salary cap to entice another player. I guess we have got so many draft picks/rookie and trades right recently you can't get them all right. I think Tom will be o/k but what we gave up and what he is costing us may prevent us from the holy grail. This is not Tom's fault but he is just not the star we hoping he would be, I think we all know this but do not want to say it.

He's 20 years old

 

[Yojimbo]

He's 20 years old

So at the end of his seven year deal he will be twenty six and just about
to enter the prime years for a KPF, that's odd list management.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

He's 20 years old

So's Bonti. Look I totally get the age thing but it's concerning that we have a number 1 draft pick who was clearly all the rage going through multiple games without scoring or looking like scoring goals. I get the arguments, I see the comparatives but he isn't delivering anywhere near his potential suggested. Sorry - he just isn't.

A bloke I totally respect who coaches in the VFL at a high level and played us twice last year with Boyd in both games got a very close look at him then and described him as "miles away from where I expected him to be and I'm unconvinced he can make the transition at VFL let alone the big time". Clearly he is somewhat better than that but taking last weekend as a random snapshot:

Daniher (shit game) - 1 mark, 0.1
McCartin - 5 marks, 2.1 goals
Schache - 5 marks, 1.1 goals
Tom Boyd - 1 mark, 0.1 goals
Rory Lobb - 4 marks, 4.1 goals
J Patton - 9 marks, 1.1 goals
Moore - 7 marks, 1.1 goals
Hogan - 9 marks, 2.2 goals

The problem is, he can have bad games, I also get he had a sore shoulder but this is a consistent picture.

At the moment, and I'm happy to put it on the line, he is tracking to be a 5 out of 10. And that would make him the one big failure I've seen our unbelievable recruitment machine make. I'm ok with that - we have to have a stab at this stuff and sometimes it won't pan out perfectly.

His comparative development to every one of his "equivalent" young developing talls is slow. I hope he turns it around. But it's not his age.

I hate this post. But it is what it is at the moment unfortunately.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

So's Bonti. Look I totally get the age thing but it's concerning that we have a number 1 draft pick who was clearly all the rage going through multiple games without scoring or looking like scoring goals. I get the arguments, I see the comparatives but he isn't delivering anywhere near his potential suggested. Sorry - he just isn't.

A bloke I totally respect who coaches in the VFL at a high level and played us twice last year with Boyd in both games got a very close look at him then and described him as "miles away from where I expected him to be and I'm unconvinced he can make the transition at VFL let alone the big time". Clearly he is somewhat better than that but taking last weekend as a random snapshot:

Daniher (shit game) - 1 mark, 0.1
McCartin - 5 marks, 2.1 goals
Schache - 5 marks, 1.1 goals
Tom Boyd - 1 mark, 0.1 goals
Rory Lobb - 4 marks, 4.1 goals
J Patton - 9 marks, 1.1 goals
Moore - 7 marks, 1.1 goals
Hogan - 9 marks, 2.2 goals

The problem is, he can have bad games, I also get he had a sore shoulder but this is a consistent picture.

At the moment, and I'm happy to put it on the line, he is tracking to be a 5 out of 10. And that would make him the one big failure I've seen our unbelievable recruitment machine make. I'm ok with that - we have to have a stab at this stuff and sometimes it won't pan out perfectly.

His comparative development to every one of his "equivalent" young developing talls is slow. I hope he turns it around. But it's not his age.

I hate this post. But it is what it is at the moment unfortunately.

How many of those guys are taking the ruck duties for as long as Boyd is?

Forward/ruck is an astonishingly hard position to play, particularly when your fitness is not up to scratch.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

How many of those guys are taking the ruck duties for as long as Boyd is?

Forward/ruck is an astonishingly hard position to play, particularly when your fitness is not up to scratch.

I get it. But he's playing forward ruck because he simply wasn't delivering as a full forward and they are strengthening his bows. He wasn't recruited as a forward-ruck he was brought in to be our number 1 forward and hasn't shown enough up there consistently to deliver that and stay there. If he was taking 7-9 marks a game up front do you seriously think we'd be throwing him into the guts? Didn't do it originally but we've been forced to pursue plan B.

 

[BRWB]

How many of those guys are taking the ruck duties for as long as Boyd is?

Forward/ruck is an astonishingly hard position to play, particularly when your fitness is not up to scratch.

Chicken and egg IMO. If he was smashing it fwd would he be playing ruck? Iirc Bev said early last yr Boyd would play ruck if wasn't getting into games.

Edit Bev quote April 2015.

"When things don't go to plan, we're not going to hang him out to dry," Beveridge told AAP.

"We're going to try and find a way for him to lift his performance.

"If that means he plays a bit more in the ruck, or maybe even behind the ball at some point, we'll definitely explore that to help him, because being a key forward can be a difficult existence, especially if you're not getting supply at times."

http://m.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2015-04-01/boyds-rucking-role