Rumour GFC 2016 Player Trading, Drafting, FA, Rumours, and Wish lists.

[GFrost]

Latest on the WA Rumour file is :

> Gaff to Essendon
> Essendon first round pick to Eagles
> Eagles traded first round essendon pick to Cats
> Mitch Duncan to Eagles
Probably BS like 90% of rumours are though

What is the "WA Rumour file" exactly?

 

[Turbocat]

Interesting. I see two main purposes:

1. For sides who are near contention for the flag to fill a glaring need (e.g. maybe Bulldogs could try to NAB another key forward?)

2. For players who can’t break into their AFL side to find an opportunity elsewhere (either permanently or for the rest of the year – i.e. a “loan” type scenario – e.g. maybe Travis Cloke)

Critically, the system would need to make sure that you couldn’t have the types of scenarios that you fear. So I don’t think, for instance, Hawthorn should be able to bring in Ablett or Pendlebury for the rest of 2016. There are a few ways you could ensure this. Firstly you make sure that it’s a genuine trade scenario so the club letting go has to agree to the release because it gets something of worth in return (probably draft picks). Secondly you could restrict the availability of players who are, for example, in their current club’s top 10 paid players from being traded mid-year. Lastly you could put some sort of AFL games threshold in it so that, for example, only players who had been selected for less than 6 AFL games by Round 12 could be eligible for trade. Mechanisms such as these could prevent undesirable outcomes but provide additional flexibility and benefits to the current system.

To me ..what is old is new again... its all be done before...

Michael Byrne was traded mid season , 82.. Im sure there were many others..

and John Scarlett.. was leased to South Melb in 1977

http://australianfootball.com/players/player/john+scarlett/9979
After 183 games with Geelong between 1967 and 1977 he was the subject of a highly unusual transfer arrangement whereby he joined finals qualifier South Melbourne 'on loan'. The arrangement was ostensibly for the duration of the finals but, after the Swans capitulated to Richmond in the Elimination Final, the clubs unexpectedly agreed to make the deal permanent. - See more at:
http://australianfootball.com/players/player/john+scarlett/9979

How does it work in comps around the world with SCaps I wonder? Does it work without player consent... obviously we do not have the ability to just trade contracted players. I believe in some comps players are leased on the basis that they do not play against their original club..

I like the idea in theory... but just as the example of Scarlett being traded basically for finals... care would have to be taken not to distort a season of football. How many players can you trade in? One of the reasons the Geelong Falcons have failed to win more finals is the late in season additions some clubs get back from the private schools. How does it work with IP?

A lot to work out but I think its coming so more learning to come for all of us.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

He put two out on the full last week and he's had a few howlers in the back half, but the stats don't evaluate the difficulty of the kicks. When he messes one up it stands out, and that to me means he's ultra reliable. There's still no one else I'd prefer kicking into F50 on the team than Duncan. As cliche as it sounds he just needs to keep playing his role and the team will benefit. Not many/any teams have two blokes of the caliber of Dangerfield/Selwood, so it's hard to see anyone racking up touches while those guys are getting their 35 a game.

I remember last year at Kardinia Park vs the Doggies where Caddy managed 36 disposals and BOG when Selwood didn't play. I think our next tier are capable of racking up big numbers but with the form of DangerWood at the moment, it's expected that our other mids will be seeing less of the ball.

Yeah, maaaaybe - I'm not sure I entirely buy into that. It never stopped Corey, Kelly, Bartel, Ablett, Ling and Selwood from all racking up big numbers together or even this year you look at the Dogs or Swans they all rack up big numbers still but I will admit that can somewhat come down to game style. I just feel like Caddy and Duncan need to impose themselves a bit more on the game and grab it by the scruff of the neck, they have the capability, we've seen it before at times, would just like to see it a bit more from them. I'm probably just being greedy though...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-western-bulldogs
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-sydney-swans
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-geelong-cats

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

I think he is in a less prominent role then he was last year so it's harder to see his impact. He also isn't kicking a lot goals.

Missed a few that you would normally consider 'gimme's for him too. I guess they stand out when you set a high standard for yourself!

 

[STP18]

Yeah, maaaaybe - I'm not sure I entirely buy into that. It never stopped Corey, Kelly, Bartel, Ablett, Ling and Selwood from all racking up big numbers together or even this year you look at the Dogs or Swans they all rack up big numbers still but I will admit that can somewhat come down to game style. I just feel like Caddy and Duncan need to impose themselves a bit more on the game and grab it by the scruff of the neck, they have the capability, we've seen it before at times, would just like to see it a bit more from them. I'm probably just being greedy though...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-western-bulldogs
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-sydney-swans
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-geelong-cats

Yeah it's a good point. I just think our midfield plays a lot more direct than other teams, we don't really have blokes fiddle around with it too much. If Dangerfield gets the ball he's not passing it 20 metres sideways, hes running it 20 and kicking it 60. Cuts out a lot of other guys getting cheap touches. The Bulldogs have had an extra 650 disposals compared to us so far this year, and I've seen blokes like Hunter just rack up touches for the sake of it. Selwood and Dangerfield don't bother with a lot of the meaningless disposal crap a lot of players seem to get involved with these days. We're clear number one for contested marks so we don't have issues with blazing away to contests, where the undersized Bulldogs would be more prone to flick it around to find a more clear option.

That's just me trying to make sense of numbers, probably a whole load of codswallop.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Yeah it's a good point. I just think our midfield plays a lot more direct than other teams, we don't really have blokes fiddle around with it too much. If Dangerfield gets the ball he's not passing it 20 metres sideways, hes running it 20 and kicking it 60. Cuts out a lot of other guys getting cheap touches. The Bulldogs have had an extra 650 disposals compared to us so far this year, and I've seen blokes like Hunter just rack up touches for the sake of it. Selwood and Dangerfield don't bother with a lot of the meaningless disposal crap a lot of players seem to get involved with these days. We're clear number one for contested marks so we don't have issues with blazing away to contests, where the undersized Bulldogs would be more prone to flick it around to find a more clear option.

That's just me trying to make sense of numbers, probably a whole load of codswallop.

Doesn't sound like illogical codswallop though Makes sense.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yeah it's a good point. I just think our midfield plays a lot more direct than other teams, we don't really have blokes fiddle around with it too much. If Dangerfield gets the ball he's not passing it 20 metres sideways, hes running it 20 and kicking it 60. Cuts out a lot of other guys getting cheap touches. The Bulldogs have had an extra 650 disposals compared to us so far this year, and I've seen blokes like Hunter just rack up touches for the sake of it. Selwood and Dangerfield don't bother with a lot of the meaningless disposal crap a lot of players seem to get involved with these days. We're clear number one for contested marks so we don't have issues with blazing away to contests, where the undersized Bulldogs would be more prone to flick it around to find a more clear option.

That's just me trying to make sense of numbers, probably a whole load of codswallop.

It's not codswallop, but it's worth noting that the difference of 600+ between the 2 teams is (a) nearly all in uncontested possessions, and (b) nearly all in handballs. Their game style is built around throwing the ball around in the middle section of the ground until they've set up the loose man to attack. We tend to do it with precision kicking from defence and then cross-ground in the middle third. But when we do attack from the centre, we do it quickly and more directly than them.

 

[STP18]

Doesn't sound like illogical codswallop though Makes sense.

First time for everything.

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

I know the lower leagues wouldn't like it but I think the mid season trade should be from non afl players. Similar to the players the bombers picked up. It would give even more reasons for players that get delisted to go play VFL/sanfl/wafl etc.
If as proposed it's only exchanging picks for afl players. I think that'll hurt teams too much.

 

[Mahlepi]

It's nearly time for a dinner party

 

[card20]

Yeah, maaaaybe - I'm not sure I entirely buy into that. It never stopped Corey, Kelly, Bartel, Ablett, Ling and Selwood from all racking up big numbers together or even this year you look at the Dogs or Swans they all rack up big numbers still but I will admit that can somewhat come down to game style. I just feel like Caddy and Duncan need to impose themselves a bit more on the game and grab it by the scruff of the neck, they have the capability, we've seen it before at times, would just like to see it a bit more from them. I'm probably just being greedy though...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-western-bulldogs
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-sydney-swans
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-geelong-cats

No your not being greedy we cats fans want to see a little more from our Boys every game weather its Patty or Mitch.

 

[The rabbi]

His effective disposals and clangers are not as good as Guthrie and he's averaging as many clangers a game as Selwood and Dangerfield who average 4-7 more touches a game. He hasn't been as clean with the ball this year as in the past.

But I'm not going to say anymore because I know lot will disagree with me and it's mostly based on what I think I've seen and feel and that is he hasn't had as much influence nor been as clean this year, I've just expected a little more - perhaps too much. I still love him

I see an article in Sunday's Hun (June 19th) by Sam Edmund p.50-51.

"A statistical analysis of the first 12 rounds also found:
MITCH Duncan is the best kick in the competition".

Best Kicks
1 Mitch Duncan (Geel) 129 +12.8%
2.Scott Pendlebury (Coll) 136 +11%
3. Shannon Hurn (WC) 134 +10.9%
* Considers the amount of pressure the player is under and the intent/difficulty of the kick. Duncan's kick rating is 12.8% above the expected rate. Qualification is 100 kicks.

In the Score Assists Duncan is 8th with 19 from 12 games. Wells (NM) topped the class with 22 from 10.
Duncan is rated 2nd only to Aaron Hall (GC) for arguably the most important kick in the game--delivery inside Forward 50m.
*How often a team retains possession from a kick inside its forward 50m.

 

[Turbocat]

It's nearly time for a dinner party

Im sure this is profound.. if only I remembered the details from last year.

 

[dazbroncos]

He put two out on the full last week and he's had a few howlers in the back half, but the stats don't evaluate the difficulty of the kicks. When he messes one up it stands out, and that to me means he's ultra reliable. There's still no one else I'd prefer kicking into F50 on the team than Duncan. As cliche as it sounds he just needs to keep playing his role and the team will benefit. Not many/any teams have two blokes of the caliber of Dangerfield/Selwood, so it's hard to see anyone racking up touches while those guys are getting their 35 a game.

I remember last year at Kardinia Park vs the Doggies where Caddy managed 36 disposals and BOG when Selwood didn't play. I think our next tier are capable of racking up big numbers but with the form of DangerWood at the moment, it's expected that our other mids will be seeing less of the ball.

I still reckon that hit from Stringer early in the game shook him up. Not right IMO for the rest of it.

Go Catters

 

[ChookNorris]

Can't people see that lower finishing clubs get pillaged enough by top enders for their best mature talent so they can shoot for rebuilds that barely work. Mid season draft would only compound this.

 

[catempire]

Can't people see that lower finishing clubs get pillaged enough by top enders for their best mature talent so they can shoot for rebuilds that barely work. Mid season draft would only compound this.

At worst, wouldn't it merely bring forward such moves that were going to occur at the end of the season anyway?

 

[Cezz The Catter]

At worst, wouldn't it merely bring forward such moves that were going to occur at the end of the season anyway?

I probably dont agree with it after being all for it early on. I like the idea of a mid season draft using the state leagues as the hub. But snagging players out of clubs reserves just impacts depth. If the second half of the season goes pear shaped with injury clubs will fall from bottom to top quickly.

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

If it doesn't have restrictions such as replacing a player that's on the long term injured list. It will no doubt just help top teams win a flag. This year for example Geelong is in a good spot as the club has managed players well. Having players coming back and looking ready to play come finals time. That is good management and good luck.
I don't like it if it's bringing in players from other clubs. No doubt teams like Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney would benefit the most. As they are the teams that are best at recruiting and trading. They are also the top teams and players want to go there.

 

[FredLeDeux]

At worst, wouldn't it merely bring forward such moves that were going to occur at the end of the season anyway?

Yes and no. To take this season as an example, I would not like to see Sydney compensating for the loss of Tippett by bringing in Riewoldt (either of them) or Pavlich or even Cloke.
In fact, I wouldn't like it no matter who was involved, given that the competition is based on the concept of a season; I mean, what's the difference in principle between doing it once half-way through a season, and doing it whenever you like at any stage in a season?

 

[catempire]

Yes and no. To take this season as an example, I would not like to see Sydney compensating for the loss of Tippett by bringing in Riewoldt (either of them) or Pavlich or even Cloke.
In fact, I wouldn't like it no matter who was involved, given that the competition is based on the concept of a season; I mean, what's the difference in principle between doing it once half-way through a season, and doing it whenever you like at any stage in a season?

How could Sydney afford to bring in a player like Riewoldt unless they traded out a player of equivalent TPP burden?

 

[ChookNorris]

At worst, wouldn't it merely bring forward such moves that were going to occur at the end of the season anyway?

Don't think so, say you are a Fremantle this year. Or a Richmond. Overrated your list and looking to rebuild. You could in effect getting early, trade a delidio to a Hawthorn or north for their first round pick mid year and then make it even easier to tank. Also flys in the face of good list management. Look at our ruck stocks in recent years. We had to suffer though it, why should clubs get an east out

 

[catempire]

Don't think so, say you are a Fremantle this year. Or a Richmond. Overrated your list and looking to rebuild. You could in effect getting early, trade a delidio to a Hawthorn or north for their first round pick mid year and then make it even easier to tank. Also flys in the face of good list management. Look at our ruck stocks in recent years. We had to suffer though it, why should clubs get an east out

But if Richmond is willing to trade Deledio now they would be at the end of the season. I don't think they would, FWIW. And besides, top clubs don't have the cap space to bring in a player of that calibre mid-season.

 

[Lana]

How could Sydney afford to bring in a player like Riewoldt unless they traded out a player of equivalent TPP burden?

Contracts have performance based incentives attached to them, an injured Tippet won't meet his. Teams don't have to pay 100% of the cap. For each 1% they don't pay they have 100k in reserve. They could trade out someone out that is taking up more cap space then providing output like Reid.

 

[FredLeDeux]

How could Sydney afford to bring in a player like Riewoldt unless they traded out a player of equivalent TPP burden?

It would be difficult but not insuperable, eg by backloading his contract even past the end of his foreseeable career, as they've done with Franklin.

 

[catempire]

Contracts have performance based incentives attached to them, an injured Tippet won't meet his. Teams don't have to pay 100% of the cap. For each 1% they don't pay they have 100k in reserve. They could trade out someone out that is taking up more cap space then providing output like Reid.

That all sounds fair to me.