Mega Thread The 2016 Buckley Coaching Discussion

[sr36]

When did Barrett say that, TD?

I could be wrong, but I suspect that this could be one of those occasions where TDs paraphrasing may be quite interpretive. "So you're saying that ..."

 

[Mame]

No they're due to Buckley focusing too much on contested ball and not enough on skills and ball movement.

In that case I look forward to our next coach improving the list's kicking skills.

I don't agree. Buckley has identified contested ball as one of the key correlation stats for when we win. No one outside he club knows the others but, just like the motivation quote, some have taken it and run with it.

FWIW I don't care who coaches us. I'm just not prepared to conclude that, just because Bucks talks about contested ball a lot, he focuses on that at the expense of skills; among other leaps in logic.

Pendles can still kick because he has talent, experience and maturity. I'm more incline to think our list lacks that.

Maybe he should have recruited better so if he's sacked for that so be it. Because the buck stops with the coach right?

 

[Mame]

Bolton has already improved them quite considerably from last year.
1. They beat us...Oh wait so has 10 other teams
2. They beat Geelong
3. The beat Port (we couldn't)
4. Their percentage has improved by 16% on last year
5. They have already won 2 more games this year than last year with 4 games to go (despite losing Judd, Carazzo, Henderson, Menzel, Yarran this year)
6. They have improved their ladder position (something we are yet to do)
7. Their defence has improved. Last year they conceded an average of 16.5 goals per game. This year it is 12 goals per game

We on the other hand
1. Lost to Richmond (who everybody described as a basket case. We were lucky not to have done it twice this year)
2. Our percentage is 15% worse than last year
3. We have conceded more goals per game this year than we did last year
4. We have lost to 3 teams this year that finished below us last year Melbourne (2), St. Kilda (1), Carlton (1)

Yeah. I just found it funny that CFC was highlighting the significance of the coach while his man Bolton was getting pummeled.

 

[noideaatall]

No they're due to Buckley focusing too much on contested ball and not enough on skills and ball movement.

I am interested in what way you believe Buckley's focus on contested ball has led to poor kicking. One way I see is recruitment: outside of Aish (& I'm not even sure about him) none of the young recruits would have kicking listed as one of their outstanding attributes. Is training a problem? Is there something else I have no idea about?

This is a key area that Bucks can be nailed on. Four years ago he stated it was his intention to improve the kicking skills at the pies. There has been no discernible improvement to my uneducated eye.

 

[TradeDraft]

When did Barrett say that, TD?

Today's Sunday Footy Show

 

[Mame]

Today's Sunday Footy Show

That'd be this one: https://www.9now.com.au/afl-sunday-footy-show/2016/clip-cirk7sor6001e0iqcrammi9a7

He does make some simply appealing points.

 

[TradeDraft]

That'd be this one: https://www.9now.com.au/afl-sunday-footy-show/2016/clip-cirk7sor6001e0iqcrammi9a7

He does make some simply appealing points.

For Once He Made some Scence and Glad he Called Bucks out like he did

 

[Anzacday]

That'd be this one: https://www.9now.com.au/afl-sunday-footy-show/2016/clip-cirk7sor6001e0iqcrammi9a7

He does make some simply appealing points.

Poor old Taylor he was so stressed by it all his voiced cracked!

 

[TradeDraft]

Poor old Taylor he was so stressed by it all his voiced cracked!

Well Barrat was Telling the Truth

 

[Sco80]

For Once He Made some Scence and Glad he Called Bucks out like he did

I dislike barrets journalism at the best of times but I'm glad someone in the media finally came out and said this publically. It had to be said and poor Tay was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[TradeDraft]

I dislike barrets journalism at the best of times but I'm glad someone in the media finally came out and said this publically. It had to be said and poor Tay was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Tay is a Good Kid but Hey Might give him and the Team Kick up the Ass they Need

 

[Sco80]

Yes but I could have 100% motivation and still miss the big sticks from 10m out because my skills suck. In general the pies look motivated but poorly skilled to me.

Individual and collective motivation are complex. The coach may be factor but one of many and not the most important. Marley may have decided his career is elsewhere, current performance is irrelevant to that and so lost some % of personal motivation. Bucks, even if he wanted to, may not be able to impact or change this mindset.

It doesn't matter what mechanisms Buck's believes are the best to maximise individual and collective motivation (worth noting, though, his approach is more in line with modern day thinking in the area). What matters is that we field a team in which individual and collective motivation is maximised. If an individual, like Marley, is unmotivated then that is a selection issue. If a number of individuals or the collective lacks motivation then that is a club culture issue. Both of these issues come back to the coach regardless.

Personally I don't see the evidence that Collingwood has a number of individuals or the collective lacks motivation.

As an aside, skill level can be impacted just as much by fear of failure. When the conscious mind intrudes skills head south. Cloke is a classic example of this with his yips. I have seen that heaps this year. Marsh was another example in his early games this year. The effort was there, he'd make a mistake then come screaming around, so focused on repairing his mistake he'd not read the play well and give a way a free. My concern is that the culture at the pies doesn't allow for errors, puts too much mental intensity on the players restricting their ability to play their natural game, building fear not confidence. Could be inexperience, not sure on this, no real concrete evidence outside of a hunch.

A similar issue is players not knowing what they should be doing, conscious mind gets involved and skills go out the window. This has been clearly evident in our backline in many games: players not knowing who to pick up, whether they should go up or not, where to run. This may be inexperience - Maynard has greatly improved over the games he has played in this regard. It may also be lack of leadership - if Maxy was there shouting "pick ra ra up", the younger players wouldn't need to think about it. Either explanation begs the question is this the appropriate game plan to maximise the development of a young, inexperienced and lacking in leadership side.

We can agree to disagree I think motivation is a very big factor. Some weeks we are great and others we are buggered. And no doubt our skill level is poor. I think this manic focus on contested footy is clearly not working as well as Buckley would like. I mean look at hawthorn for instance. Their skills are top notch because obviously they focus on it continually. I think this is what we should be doing. Contested footy comes naturally as you learn this during juniors. When hawthorn need to they can play tough contested footy as well as precise, skillfull footy.

Making mistakes is apart of footy. Missing shots on goal is a part of this. If players are going to be afraid to make mistakes then again we have a problem. This is not a good culture at all and has the reverse effect on our players mindset. It shows that bucks is demanding 100 percent perfection from the players and this just cannot apply to everyone. He may have this mindset and that's fair enough as that's the way he is wired. But the majority of players are not wired this way.

 

[Jasper84]

They've gone straight past us and have a pretty exciting brand of footy with good targets up forward

Do you want us to follow the St Kilda model? It's ok if you do but it involves following a system that this board would lose their collective shit over.

2008 to 2011 St Kilda were in premiership contention. 2 years or so before us. After that they realised that the list needed to be turned over and they bottomed out hard. Traded favourite sons, picked up wooden spoons, they bombed in a big way for several years.

If the system is correct, St Kilda should be going past us right now. The question is, do you really think you could of kept your composure together and not called for mass sackings while we sat at the bottom of the ladder? I doubt it.

 

[Sco80]

Tay is a Good Kid but Hey Might give him and the Team Kick up the Ass they Need

You can only hope mate. I hope we finish the year off strong

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

What did Barrett say that hasn't been said in the media before? My reaction was "big deal."
If he gets paid for stating that obvious, I want his job.
Some are easily pleased or displeased and that results in knobs like Barrett and co keeping their jobs.

 

[PicaBoo]

Well Barrat was Telling the Truth I want to hear

EFA
Barrett is good in going through dustbins trying to find dirt. And if not he makes it up. Now that Richmond is off the hook for the moment, we are the next target. And rightly so. We were appalling.
A few weeks ago aftwr wins against GWS or Geelong he sang a different tune.
A team doesn't get destroyed within a few weeks. The wins are proof we can, the losses are proof we are far from doing it when it matters

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

We can agree to disagree I think motivation is a very big factor. Some weeks we are great and others we are buggered. And no doubt our skill level is poor. I think this manic focus on contested footy is clearly not working as well as Buckley would like. I mean look at hawthorn for instance. Their skills are top notch because obviously they focus on it continually. I think this is what we should be doing. Contested footy comes naturally as you learn this during juniors. When hawthorn need to they can play tough contested footy as well as precise, skillfull footy.

Making mistakes is apart of footy. Missing shots on goal is a part of this. If players are going to be afraid to make mistakes then again we have a problem. This is not a good culture at all and has the reverse effect on our players mindset. It shows that bucks is demanding 100 percent perfection from the players and this just cannot apply to everyone. He may have this mindset and that's fair enough as that's the way he is wired. But the majority of players are not wired this way.

SCO, do you know that players are afraid to make mistakes and that Bucks is coaching with the same mindset he had in his early years? If you don't know, what are you basing your opinion on?

 

[TradeDraft]

You can only hope mate. I hope we finish the year off strong

I am not Fussed how we end the Season as it's over. Would be nice to Finish Strong.

Next Year has to be the Make or Break season for Buck's Coaching Career

 

[Sco80]

SCO, do you know that players are afraid to make mistakes and that Bucks is coaching with the same mindset he had in his early years? If you don't know, what are you basing your opinion on?

It is just an opinion based on my observation. And it is well documented that Buckley is a perfectionist. Travis Cloke would be an obvious example.

 

[nahnah]

Do you want us to follow the St Kilda model? It's ok if you do but it involves following a system that this board would lose their collective shit over.

2008 to 2011 St Kilda were in premiership contention. 2 years or so before us. After that they realised that the list needed to be turned over and they bottomed out hard. Traded favourite sons, picked up wooden spoons, they bombed in a big way for several years.

If the system is correct, St Kilda should be going past us right now. The question is, do you really think you could of kept your composure together and not called for mass sackings while we sat at the bottom of the ladder? I doubt it.

Ruthless decision making to improve a team and set up future success seems my type of style tbh.. Much better than piss farting around in 9th or 10th like Richmond did for a decade.

 

[PicaBoo]

I am not Fussed how we end the Season as it's over. Would be nice to Finish Strong.

Next Year has to be the Make or Break season for Buck's Coaching Career

Up to a point I do care. Certain players will have to proof whether they are in next years frame or not. And if they can't , I want to give a good run to their replacements .

 

[Mame]

Ruthless decision making to improve a team and set up future success seems my type of style tbh.. Much better than piss farting around in 9th or 10th like Richmond did for a decade.

I agree. I wanted to tank in 2014 so that we made sure Moore was bid on after our first pick. But opinions differ and some would not want this sort of approach because they believe it will instill a mindset of failure and we'll become perpetual cellar dwellers. Me, I just wanted access to the talent. The club didn't go that way but I'm not going to hold it against them.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

It is just an opinion based on my observation. And it is well documented that Buckley is a perfectionist. Travis Cloke would be an obvious example.

Cloke would have made a laissez faire type leader tear his hair out.
If I can find the article which spoke of him tempering his perfectionist mindset, I'll post the link or extract.
In any case, Bucks is in strife, regardless of the one year extension. It is what it is.

 

[nahnah]

I agree. I wanted to tank in 2014 so that we made sure Moore was bid on after our first pick. But opinions differ and some would not want this sort of approach because they believe it will instill a mindset of failure and we'll become perpetual cellar dwellers. Me, I just wanted access to the talent. The club didn't go that way but I'm not going to hold it against them.

2014 was the season I had problems with too.. What a waste it was. So many nothing games given to Dwyer, young and Armstrong. Harder to watch than 2005 for me personally.

 

[Sco80]

Cloke would have made a laissez faire type leader tear his hair out.
If I can find the article which spoke of him tempering his perfectionist mindset, I'll post the link or extract.
In any case, Bucks is in strife, regardless of the one year extension. It is what it is.

I've seen the article. I'm sure he has tempered it somewhat but I reckon it's still there.