Mega Thread The 2016 Buckley Coaching Discussion

[Saintly Viewed]

Actually I did by the way Bucks was also an arrogant prick as you put it

Yes Nathan was ruthless as a player.
I'm guessing most coaches arnt that nice and are prepared to make tough decisions.
Suspect most don't read bigfooty which ofcourse inevitably leads to their downfall

 

[PieBeast]

So kindly let us know which of Beverage, Bolton, Richardson is going to win a flag (the only measure when it gets down to brass tacks) with their teams?

Yep, just like I said, literally scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Sco80]

so if we get more wins than last year you'll be happy - good for you.
personally i'll settle for closing the gap against the best - a far more important benchmark for a young developing team, because maturity and experience inevitably bring more wins if you have the talent demonstrated by competitiveness against the best.

Mate. Are you still going on this tangent? The reality is we are not achieving enough wins or making finals. In any sporting code around the world if Buckley was producing what he is with us he would of been shown the door mid contract. He has got to go for the good of the club and we need a seasoned coach like Roos or bomber Thompson to right the ship. Enough is enough. We are Collingwood and we should not accept mediocrity.

 

[No SPIN]

Closed the gap on the best?

Sydney lost by 80 points
WCE lost by 62 points (lucky they didn't kick straight)
Port lost by 68 points
Melb lost by 46 points
Adelaide lost by 28 points
North lost by 40 points.

Yep we beat Geel, GWS and WC once.

Still need to play the Hawks. If we lose that game we would have won 3 out of 9 games against top 8 teams. Hopefully we can beat WB this week. GC will be touch and go.

mate its like pulling teeth with you - we beat 1 team in the top 8 in 2015, we have beaten 3 and its should have been 4 this year.
can you do the math? - FFS

if we beat WB as you're suggesting and hawks, which is as possible with if we play at our best then that will be 6 great results but you sad sacks will still whinge.

 

[noideaatall]

Spot on we have stuffed up at recent drafts and lucky we got Moore as a father son.
Worst bit is the timing of this to occur when the AFL are trying to establish the new teams.

Will be a long time down for us and the club's like Brisbane, Richmond, Essendon and co.

The club obviously thought we were close and could top up with a few senior cast offs from other club's.
In hindsight we may have been better off going the StKilda and Bulldogs route and going via draft.

Time will tell.

At the time someone in the media wrote an article stating Bucks success depended on those picks, - Freeman and Scharanberg. I thought this bs but it has never left me. In retrospect if the level of performance from these two had been similar to what we have got out of Moore and Degooey then our past results and present state would look entirely different. Fate, Bucks, poor recruitment? Even if Bucks is entirely innocent it looks to me like he will pay the price for the failure of Freeman at the pies and Scharanberg's slow if ever to happen progress.

 

[No SPIN]

Mate. Are you still going on this tangent? The reality is we are not achieving enough wins or making finals. In any sporting code around the world if Buckley was producing what he is with us he would of been shown the door mid contract. He has got to go for the good of the club and we need a seasoned coach like Roos or bomber Thompson to right the ship. Enough is enough. We are Collingwood and we should not accept mediocrity.

Our best in 2016 is better than 2015 - not sure how its tangential but its FACT.

 

[Sco80]

At the time someone in the media wrote an article stating Bucks success depended on those picks, - Freeman and Scharanberg. I thought this bs but it has never left me. In retrospect if the level of performance from these two had been similar to what we have got out of Moore and Degooey then our past results and present state would look entirely different. Fate, Bucks, poor recruitment? Even if Bucks is entirely innocent it looks to me like he will pay the price for the failure of Freeman at the pies and Scharanberg's slow if ever to happen progress.

scharanberg this, scharanberg that. Don't hang your hat on him. Not worth wasting breath on. Two knee recos. Another rusling I'm afraid.

 

[No SPIN]

I'm with you.
If only it was as simple as big footy.....
Every side would win the flag every year if we just listened to big footy

yes and every coach would last 12 months

 

[noideaatall]

mate its like pulling teeth with you - we beat 1 team in the top 8 in 2015, we have beaten 3 and its should have been 4 this year.
can you do the math? - FFS

if we beat WB as you're suggesting and hawks, which is as possible with if we play at our best then that will be 6 great results but you sad sacks will still whinge.

Apples and oranges. Wins against top teams indicate progress, losses against weaker teams indicates regression. Which is more important. Are either measure definitive or is some sort of consistency the best measure? If we use consistency as a measure then we haven't really shifted. Instead of losing a whole heap of games we shouldn't in the second half of the season we have spread that tendency over the whole season. Similarly we have won games we shouldn't have throughout. Are we better off?

 

[Royal Flash]

so if we get more wins than last year you'll be happy - good for you.
personally i'll settle for closing the gap against the best - a far more important benchmark for a young developing team, because maturity and experience inevitably bring more wins if you have the talent demonstrated by competitiveness against the best.

What's the point of being better against the top 8 sides when you don't make finals because you keep getting stitched up by mid range battlers?

We've fallen behind the Melbourne's, St Kilda's, Port Adelaide's, and are little better than 50/50 with the Carltons and Richmond's. Throw in Essendon with a full list into the mix and a Suns with a healthy list and we have our hands full contending next year especially in light of the fact we seem to pick and choose when we are going to bring the intensity and mindset required for us to be a competitive side especially in light of our appalling skill level and dogs breakfast of a game plan.

The fact that other bottom 8 sides have also pinched wins over the finals bound sides this year seems to suggest that other sides are also closing the gap with the best (or that top 8 sides do have off days as well) and are already superior to us given our own struggles with them. Where does that leave us?

Finals are far from a fait accompli next year and given that we've already missed the finals for 3 consecutive years with no visible improvement on tangibles like wins/losses and ladder position in any year I'd say we'd want to hit the ground absolutely running at round 1 next year or it'll get ugly quickly (if our drastically dropping membership and crowd numbers aren't evidence enough of the supporter dissatisfaction with our mythical "mini re-build").

 

[magpies2013]

Anyone able to give us a rundown on what spin he came out with on 360 tonight

 

[No SPIN]

Apples and oranges. Wins against top teams indicate progress, losses against weaker teams indicates regression. Which is more important. Are either measure definitive or is some sort of consistency the best measure? If we use consistency as a measure then we haven't really shifted. Instead of losing a whole heap of games we shouldn't in the second half of the season we have spread that tendency over the whole season. Similarly we have won games we shouldn't have throughout. Are we better off?

let me make it simple - by closing the gap against the best, the consistency that will come with the maturing of the list will mean we will be in a stronger position to contend than if this gaps wasn't closing.
Surely you get that.

 

[No SPIN]

What's the point of being better against the top 8 sides when you don't make finals because you keep getting stitched up by mid range battlers?

We've fallen behind the Melbourne's, St Kilda's, Port Adelaide's, and are little better than 50/50 with the Carltons and Richmond's. Throw in Essendon with a full list into the mix and a Suns with a healthy list and we have our hands full contending next year especially in light of the fact we seem to pick and choose when we are going to bring the intensity and mindset required for us to be a competitive side especially in light of our appalling skill level and dogs breakfast of a game plan.

The fact that other bottom 8 sides have also pinched wins over the finals bound sides this year seems to suggest that other sides are also closing the gap with the best (or that top 8 sides do have off days as well) and are already superior to us given our own struggles with them. Where does that leave us?

Finals are far from a fait accompli next year and given that we've already missed the finals for 3 consecutive years with no visible improvement on tangibles like wins/losses and ladder position in any year I'd say we'd want to hit the ground absolutely running at round 1 next year or it'll get ugly quickly (if our drastically dropping membership and crowd numbers aren't evidence enough of the supporter dissatisfaction with our mythical "mini re-build").

I'm happy to see us closing the gap against because when the consistency comes we will be a very very good team.
I would not have the same confidence if we weren't closing the gap.

 

[Royal Flash]

So kindly let us know which of Beverage, Bolton, Richardson is going to win a flag (the only measure when it gets down to brass tacks) with their teams?

You let us know when Buckley will win one first.

I'll give you a tip, it ain't this year considering our finals chances were shot in about June and I'm fascinated to know how long we have to suck eggs until our "medium" list gets less medium and more good considering our attempts to bring in high draft picks as well as trading in talent has shown no discernable improvement in our fortunes for the past 4 seasons?

And how many years of regression or even stagnation does it take before we realise something has to give for us to try to change that narrative?

 

[No SPIN]

You let us know when Buckley will win one first.

I'll give you a tip, it ain't this year considering our finals chances were shot in about June and I'm fascinated to know how long we have to suck eggs until our "medium" list gets less medium and more good considering our attempts to bring in high draft picks as well as trading in talent has shown no discernable improvement in our fortunes for the past 4 seasons?

And how many years of regression or even stagnation does it take before we realise something has to give for us to try to change that narrative?

when all you see is W/L as the measure of progress then of course you would be frustrated - proven be your statement above that effectively dismisses ALL our recruiting as a failure due to its failure to improve W/L.
Pretty short sighted I would have thought.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Yep, just like I said, literally scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

Ok

 

[Saintly Viewed]

You let us know when Buckley will win one first.

I'll give you a tip, it ain't this year considering our finals chances were shot in about June and I'm fascinated to know how long we have to suck eggs until our "medium" list gets less medium and more good considering our attempts to bring in high draft picks as well as trading in talent has shown no discernable improvement in our fortunes for the past 4 seasons?

And how many years of regression or even stagnation does it take before we realise something has to give for us to try to change that narrative?

May be none of them.
Let's not pretend anyone is a world beater until they deliver a flag.
That includes Nathan and also the beloved star coaches who have won as little (or as much) as Nathan.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

scharanberg this, scharanberg that. Don't hang your hat on him. Not worth wasting breath on. Two knee recos. Another rusling I'm afraid.

I'll accept your prognosis, no doubt infallible.

 

[BPikkers]

Our best in 2016 is better than 2015 - not sure how its tangential but its FACT.

I disagree. I thought the way we played in 2015 against Freo, Hawthorn and Sydney were great efforts and games we should have won. 1 to 2 kicks in it but we played and looked good. In fact, my hawthorn mate said at the time 'the pies are the future'. This year has really had no standouts. FFS Carlton beat Geelong the week after we did. What does that tell you about Geelong at the time? In fact, we got off to a great start and hung on. If the cats had kicked those simple shots it may have been a different result. I tipped us to beat the cats because we seem to have the wood in them.

But getting back to this thread, 3 wins against top 8 teams suggests we are well on our way? Ok. Let's agree to disagree. We can argue forever.

 

[Bobbyt54]

It has been a few frustrating years under Bucks for sure but how far away are we?

Yes we have had some bad loses against sides around us we should be beating, but we have also had some good wins against sides that are in the running for the flag. How many players do we need to change our fortune? Take Friday nights side for example. We put Moore Elliot Fasolo Ramsey Sinclair(can't believe I'd ever say that) Sharenberg if he ever gets right and Swannie if he goes on next year in.Thats 7 players that could come in and make us better.More importantly takes 7 players out who might not be up to it. Surely that makes us a much better side.

If you are old enough to think back to 89 we made the finals but couldn't beat the top sides. We get Russell and Frances and those 2 players helped change us from 5th to flag.In 09 we finished 4th and no where near the Cats or the Saints we get Jolly and Ball that make a huge difference. These players along didn't win it for us but they did play a big part.If we can get a good run with injuries (say like the crows have this year)and we bring in 2 or 3 players through FA/trades/draft and it could be the difference between another shit year or having a good crack at the top 4.

Bucks is going to get next year thats a given. We have another year like the last few regardless of injuries or the like I think its time to move on.But with a little luck and a good off season we could be back where we all believe this club should be.

So until then I'm with Bucks.

 

[left at home]

It has been a few frustrating years under Bucks for sure but how far away are we?

Yes we have had some bad loses against sides around us we should be beating, but we have also had some good wins against sides that are in the running for the flag. How many players do we need to change our fortune? Take Friday nights side for example. We put Moore Elliot Fasolo Ramsey Sinclair(can't believe I'd ever say that) Sharenberg if he ever gets right and Swannie if he goes on next year in.Thats 7 players that could come in and make us better.More importantly takes 7 players out who might not be up to it. Surely that makes us a much better side.

If you are old enough to think back to 89 we made the finals but couldn't beat the top sides. We get Russell and Frances and those 2 players helped change us from 5th to flag.In 09 we finished 4th and no where near the Cats or the Saints we get Jolly and Ball that make a huge difference. These players along didn't win it for us but they did play a big part.If we can get a good run with injuries (say like the crows have this year)and we bring in 2 or 3 players through FA/trades/draft and it could be the difference between another shit year or having a good crack at the top 4.

Bucks is going to get next year thats a given. We have another year like the last few regardless of injuries or the like I think its time to move on.But with a little luck and a good off season we could be back where we all believe this club should be.

So until then I'm with Bucks.

well come aboard

 

[noideaatall]

let me make it simple - by closing the gap against the best, the consistency that will come with the maturing of the list will mean we will be in a stronger position to contend than if this gaps wasn't closing.
Surely you get that.

So you are saying it is better to judge a young, inexperienced side on their best performance rather than their worst or any sort of average. I see some logic in your statement but the corresponding argument would be our consistent performance would end being somewhere between the best and the worst. In that sense I don't understand why our key wins are significant, our bad losses not. The way I see it is if we have closed the gap against the best we will have got closer to them on the ladder. I don't think the measure of improvement should be based on our three best performances and ignore the rest.

The text in bold reads condescending to me. If that was intended please let me know. I am happy to refrain from reading or responding to your posts, you could use the ignore button.

 

[nahnah]

If there was a 328 page thread on the internet about you, would you at least skim read it?

 

[Jasper84]

I'm happy to see us closing the gap against because when the consistency comes we will be a very very good team.
I would not have the same confidence if we weren't closing the gap.

I think we all get your stance mate. You have covered off on it a few times now.

 

[Maggie5]

Just had another look at Roos record at Melbourne. First year 4 wins, second year 7 wins, this year to date 9 wins. Further Goodwin has been in charge for several areas this year before he takes over in 2018.
How much improvement is due to Roos or is it Goodwin?
Nah, don't want.