Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

[Malifice]

My original statement was that Muslims are the most bigoted and intolerant group of people in the world (you can look that up).

And you posted terrorism stats to back this up?

How does terrorism prove bigotry and intolerance more than (say), millions of flag waving hicks, a global military presence and thousands of WMDs?

 

[Malifice]

Acts of Muslim terrorism are rooted in hatred, bigotry and intolerance.

As opposed to acts of war?

So when a Muslim blows someone up, hes a hateful bigot, but when a US Marine does it, he's a patriotic hero?

Only Islamic violence counts? Is that your argument here?

 

[douglyzia]

And you posted terrorism stats to back this up?

How does terrorism prove bigotry and intolerance more than (say), millions of flag waving hicks, a global military presence and thousands of WMDs?

Because Muslim terrorists are acting in accordance to their ideology which preaches hatred, bigotry and intolerance.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Yep, have you?

Lets compare 'Muslims' with 'Americans':

We know Americans are the biggest warmongers in the world. We know that for the past 70 years they've had WMDs pointed at every part of the globe. Over 40,000 of them in fact. We know they've used them. On civilians. Twice.

What about thier general attitutes to violence. Compared directly against Muslims?

Lets start with religions alone:

According to Gallup, Muslims are less violent than other religions.

Backed up by PEW:

Now to the topic of 'Americans' vs 'Muslims':

Again Americans are more violent than Muslims:

So Pew and Gallup both clearly show

1) Muslims are not more violent than other religions. In fact they're less violent when directly polled side by side with other religions (and all other factors being equal).
2) Americans are far more violent than MENA nations (overwhelmingly comprised of Muslims).

Do you agree that both these polls clearly show 1) and 2)?

If not, why not? Provide detail.

Can you please send me the link for those?

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Oh dear

I thought it was a really funny joke.

 

[Malifice]

Because Muslim terrorists are acting in accordance to their ideology which preaches hatred, bigotry and intolerance.

They are? So why do so many of them disavow hatred bigotry intolerance and terrorism?

Are those Mulims doing it wrong? Are you saying IS fanatics are correct?

Or is it the case that youre relying on one interpretation of Islam (hardline wahabist salafism - which is itself repudiated by the majority of Muslims) and holding that up as 'the one true Islam' in a way that would make IS proud?

 

[douglyzia]

As opposed to acts of war?

If you're talking about America, then I have already stated that American acts of war are based on their foreign policy which would likely revolve around corporate interests or foreign diplomacy. I do not think that America declares war on a country because of hatred for a particular race, religion or "non-Americans" in general.

 

[Malifice]

Can you please send me the link for those?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/157067/views-violence.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/157067/views-violence.aspx
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

 

[Procrastinator35]

Acts of Muslim terrorism are rooted in hatred, bigotry and intolerance.

And U.S invasion, destruction & occupation of foreign lands is rooted in their constitution.

 

[Number37]

If you're talking about America, then I have already stated that American acts of war are based on their foreign policy which would likely revolve around corporate interests or foreign diplomacy. I do not think that America declares war on a country because of hatred for a particular race, religion or "non-Americans" in general.

Following your logic, if muslims are terrorists then America declaring a war on terror is declaring a war on Muslims, is it not?

 

[Malifice]

If you're talking about America, then I have already stated that American acts of war are based on their foreign policy which would likely revolve around corporate interests or foreign diplomacy. I do not think that America declares war on a country because of hatred for a particular race, religion or "non-Americans" in general.

The difference being? We're talking about bigotry and intolerance here.

Your argument boils down to the Yanks get a free pass to shell the crap out of Iraq and hold the world to ransom via a nuclear apocalypse (because these heroic men and women only do it at the behest of their evil corporate overlords) screaming 'USA, USA USA!' while he does it, but when a Muslim blows himself up, he's just a bigoted monster.

Just so we're clear on your central argument here.

 

[douglyzia]

They are? So why do so many of them disavow hatred bigotry intolerance and terrorism?

Seems like more of them disavow anyone who insults their prophet. When was the last time you saw a mass protest by Muslims against bigotry, intolerance and terrorism?

But make a joke about Muhammed and the threats of beheading will follow en masse.

Are those Mulims doing it wrong? Are you saying IS fanatics are correct?

Or is it the case that youre relying on one interpretation of Islam (hardline wahabist salafism - which is itself repudiated by the majority of Muslims) and holding that up as 'the one true Islam' in a way that would make IS proud?

I'd like to believe that. Do you have any evidence of this?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

If you're talking about America, then I have already stated that American acts of war are based on their foreign policy which would likely revolve around corporate interests or foreign diplomacy. I do not think that America declares war on a country because of hatred for a particular race, religion or "non-Americans" in general.

It requires a racist population to accept it.

At best, the millions killed by the west in the past century has displayed a callous indifference to humanity. Im not sure if that can be distinguished with intolerance.

So yeah. Stop rationalising some forms of violence while condemning others.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I thought it was a really funny joke.

Carry on then.

Following your logic, if Muslims are terrorists then America declaring a war on terror is declaring a war on Muslims, is it not?

Only the one's with oil....Who won't toe the company line....And might start dealing with the Russians instead....Can't have that.

 

[douglyzia]

The difference being? We're talking about bigotry and intolerance here.

Your argument boils down to the Yanks get a free pass to shell the crap out of Iraq and hold the world to ransom via a nuclear apocalypse (because these heroic men and women only do it at the behest of their evil corporate overlords) screaming 'USA, USA USA!' while he does it, but when a Muslim blows himself up, he's just a bigoted monster.

Just so we're clear on your central argument here.

The yanks don't get any free pass. I've already stated that I do not support American colonialism. I'm just stating that the motives are different, which they are.

 

[Malifice]

I'd like to believe that. Do you have any evidence of this?

'Muslims around the world strongly reject violence in the name of Islam. Asked specifically about suicide bombing, clear majorities in most countries say such acts are rarely or never justified as a means of defending Islam from its enemies.

In most countries where the question was asked, roughly three-quarters or more Muslims reject suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilians. And in most countries, the prevailing view is that such acts are never justified as a means of defending Islam from its enemies'

Reading on:

'In a majority of countries surveyed, at least half of Muslims say they are somewhat or very concerned about religious extremism. And on balance, more Muslims are concerned about Islamic than Christian extremist groups. In all but one of the 36 countries where the question was asked, no more than one-in-five Muslims express worries about Christian extremism, compared with 28 countries where at least that many say they are concerned about Islamic extremist groups.'

It seems Muslims overwhelmingly reject terrorism, and are themselves concerned about Islamic extremism.

Rather unsurprising seeing as the overwhelming victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims.

Here is the support for ISIL:

Around about the same levels of support for far right wing groups in Europe among Europeans.

 

[douglyzia]

Guys, I haven't got time to keep posting away indefinitely.

You might be surprised to know that I oppose Islam because I actually support multiculturalism. Australia is a model for the rest of the world in terms of how multiculturalism can actually work. Based on events happening around the world, I think our multicultural utopia will be jeopardized if Islam is allowed to grow unchecked. Islam just gives multiculturalism a bad name, sorry to say.

Anyone reading this, I'd recommend educating yourself about Islam first and how it differs to other religions (no, they are not all the same) before throwing out convenient catch phrases like "bigot", "racist", "not all", "all religions the same", "don't generalize", etc.

Good night ...

 

[Malifice]

The yanks don't get any free pass. I've already stated that I do not support American colonialism. I'm just stating that the motives are different, which they are.

Of course the Motives are different. My point is those motives are equally bigoted and intolerant.

I see you missed the point with Team America and the song 'America; **** Yeah!' while they lay waste to the world to bring the 'Freedom and the American way'.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Anyone reading this, I'd recommend educating yourself about Islam first and how it differs to other religions (no, they are not all the same) before throwing out convenient catch phrases like "bigot", "racist", "not all", "all religions the same", "don't generalize", etc.

Good night ...

Priceless!

 

[Malifice]

Guys, I haven't got time to keep posting away indefinitely.

You might be surprised to know that I oppose Islam because I actually support multiculturalism. Australia is a model for the rest of the world in terms of how multiculturalism can actually work. Based on events happening around the world, I think our multicultural utopia will be jeopardized if Islam is allowed to grow unchecked. Islam just gives multiculturalism a bad name, sorry to say.

Anyone reading this, I'd recommend educating yourself about Islam first and how it differs to other religions (no, they are not all the same) before throwing out convenient catch phrases like "bigot", "racist", "not all", "all religions the same", "don't generalize", etc.

Good night ...

Great. Then stop doing yourself a disservice by calling out Muslims as being a bigoted lot.

There are hardliners with them like there are with any group or religion. Those ****heads are the ones we need to be calling out, not the overwhelming majority who repudiate violence and fundamentalism.

Tarring them with the same brush makes you no better than IS. In fact, thats exactly IS's narrative they're trying to sell (to Muslims and to everyone else). You're falling for it hook line and sinker, in the same way radicalised young Muslim men are.

We want to work together to root out the bad guys. And beleieve it or not, most of our intelligence comes from the Islamic community. Comments such as yours dont help in that endeavor.

 

[Malifice]

douglyzia

The support levels are worrying, but probably not out of alignment with the numbers of people that support far right wing governments and people in Europe and America (Stormfront, Neo Nazis, etc).

They do show that the overwhelming number of Muslims hold a negative view of IS.

So stop tarring all Muslims with the actions of IS and related groups (terrorism).

 

[smokingjacket]

'Muslims around the world strongly reject violence in the name of Islam. Asked specifically about suicide bombing, clear majorities in most countries say such acts are rarely or never justified as a means of defending Islam from its enemies.

In most countries where the question was asked, roughly three-quarters or more Muslims reject suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilians. And in most countries, the prevailing view is that such acts are never justified as a means of defending Islam from its enemies'

Reading on:

'In a majority of countries surveyed, at least half of Muslims say they are somewhat or very concerned about religious extremism. And on balance, more Muslims are concerned about Islamic than Christian extremist groups. In all but one of the 36 countries where the question was asked, no more than one-in-five Muslims express worries about Christian extremism, compared with 28 countries where at least that many say they are concerned about Islamic extremist groups.'

It seems Muslims overwhelmingly reject terrorism, and are themselves concerned about Islamic extremism.

Rather unsurprising seeing as the overwhelming victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims.

Here is the support for ISIL:

Around about the same levels of support for far right wing groups in Europe among Europeans.

Do you find that study supportive of your argument?

26% of Muslims in Bangladesh think suicide bombings are sometimes justified?

13% of Muslims in a developed state like Tunisia support ISIS? 14% in Nigeria?

I think that study reveals deep socio-cultural issues within many of those majority Islamic nations that need to be addressed, most importantly through the destruction of Islamic ideology.

Tonight's Lateline interview was instructive. A German ISIS recruit who fled and was captured told his story. He bolted after watching footage of IS killing other Sunni Muslims, not when they were raping Yazidi women or killing Shia and Christian Syrians though. Should Germany bother reintegrating this person?

 

[JackOutback]

Okay, now do 'Muslim men' vs any other group of men.

Can I just get a hands up to see if I'm the only one that's against Islamic violence, Christian bigotry, Zionism, US foreign policy, Chinese foreign policy, Russian foreign policy, Australian foreign policy, the United Nations, Hindu extremists, white supremacists and pretty much anyone that describes themselves as a patriot?

Hoping my team has at least enough for a kick to kick at training.

I'm against all those things as well. However, I don't hate all Americans because of drone strikes in the Middle East, I don't rail against all Chinese because of their govrrnment's actions in the South China Sea, I don't criticise all Russians because of events in Crimea and I don't blame all Muslims for ISIS. Wonder if I have enough for my team.

 

[Number37]

Do you find that study supportive of your argument?

26% of Muslims in Bangladesh think suicide bombings are sometimes justified?

13% of Muslims in a developed state like Tunisia support ISIS? 14% in Nigeria?

I think that study reveals deep socio-cultural issues within many of those majority Islamic nations that need to be addressed, most importantly through the destruction of Islamic ideology.

Tonight's Lateline interview was instructive. A German ISIS recruit who fled and was captured told his story. He bolted after watching footage of IS killing other Sunni Muslims, not when they were raping Yazidi women or killing Shia and Christian Syrians though. Should Germany bother reintegrating this person?

The Pew Research has other questions that are often ignored. Worth a read if you have the time.
Distrust of their government is much more popular than support for terrorist acts.

 

[Malifice]

Do you find that study supportive of your argument?

26% of Muslims in Bangladesh think suicide bombings are sometimes justified?

13% of Muslims in a developed state like Tunisia support ISIS? 14% in Nigeria?

I think that study reveals deep socio-cultural issues within many of those majority Islamic nations that need to be addressed, most importantly through the destruction of Islamic ideology.

Tonight's Lateline interview was instructive. A German ISIS recruit who fled and was captured told his story. He bolted after watching footage of IS killing other Sunni Muslims, not when they were raping Yazidi women or killing Shia and Christian Syrians though. Should Germany bother reintegrating this person?

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Like I said above, even such small percentages of 4 percent in Indonesia is troubling. (Four percent of Indonesians supporting IS is a lot of people). Fortunately the other 90 odd percent oppose it.

It does suggest that the IS version of Islam (hardline Salaffist fundamentalism) is not the version that other Muslims follow (or support) though. They're as appalled by it as we are (again - unsurprising seeing as they are the main victims of it).

I dont have numbers, but I wouldnt be surprised to see similar support in the 'West' for similar hardline groups (Far right wing groups) or hard line militant positions that advocate for the killing of civilians and imposing a foreign belief system on others.

Heck; before IS was in Iraq killing Muslims to impose Hardline Islam on them, the USA was over there killing Muslims to impose Democracy on them. Its the moderates stuck in the middle that are copping it in the neck. Unfortunately IS prey on those very people with messages that appeal to conservative peeps (on both sides): 'They' are out to get 'us' - its a 'clash of the cultures' etc.

Right wingers get sucked into that rubbish (both the Western right wing, and the Islamic right wing fundies) and the next thing you know people die.