Religion The God Question - part 2

[HARKER]

It's funny that on this thread the only people with sob stories are the atheists.
My mum this... my dad said this..ostracized etc etc . Then like to play the clever unbiased view on this all.
Tear down one point of view to try and validate another.

Well no. Some just have a story to tell.....you know....stories that come from the heart.

Being raised by a Catholic family and having to make hard decisions that will upset others, aren't sob stories. Think about it.

Conforming because "it's the right thing to do" is the sob story................a sad story.

 

[Boston tiger]

Well no. Some just have a story to tell.....you know....stories that come from the heart.

Being raised by a Catholic family and having to make hard decisions that will upset others, aren't sob stories. Think about it.

Conforming because "it's the right thing to do" is the sob story................a sad story.

Mines a happy story..does that make my defence more valid ?
You're come on here and openly said that you will decry organised religion to your dying breath. You are openly biased due to your personal setup. The church says it loves you but cant condone your lifestyle.( guessing)
The church loves me but cant condone my lifestyle either.
Society condones my behaviour ... perhaps when society condones your behaviour fully you will be less shitty about the church.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Your simple questions have been.

Do you think the world is flat ?
Why aren't you a Muslim ?

And you're admitted to your mate that you are asking types of questions that will have a predictable answers.

It's funny that on this thread the only people with sob stories are the atheists.
My mum this... my dad said this..ostracized etc etc . Then like to play the clever unbiased view on this all.
Tear down one point of view to try and validate another.

Really? The Bible's heavy implication that the world in fact is flat means that it wasn't a "simple" question at all. Unless, of course I'm the stupid one who should know that you think the world is flat?

As for the Muslim question - I'm going to pull one right out of the fundamentalist's play book and say "context". Go back, read that 'question' again; understand the context and come back to me you've actually figured it out.

Your last sentence really demonstrates the problem with religion. Do you even give a shit about all the pain and suffering in the world? Clearly you do not! Sob story... how disrespectful! These ARE the reasons why myself and many others do not ascribe to a religion.

If you take your Catholic hat off for a minute and actually ask yourself the tough questions, what conclusion can you possibly arrive at that suggests your God is fair, reasonable, just and loving? You simply can't. However, do enlighten me. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[HARKER]

Mines a happy story..does that make my defence more valid ?
You're come on here and openly said that you will decry organised religion to your dying breath. You are openly biased due to your personal setup. The church says it loves you but cant condone your lifestyle.( guessing)
The church loves me but cant condone my lifestyle either.
Society condones my behaviour ... perhaps when society condones your behaviour fully you will be less shitty about the church.

It's not my society and it's not my church.

I'm only biased because I cared to think, to observe, to investigate and to come to a conclusion.......at that was when I was approximately 12/13 years of age, without the luxury of internet, the ability to confide in others and only the fear of being ostracised for expressing myself.

I have a passionate dislike for society as a whole as I feel we're doing so much wrong that little of anything makes things right.
When I discuss society I am just another member/number regardless of which side of the fence i sit on when it comes to gender equality, racial discussion, religion, or even the football team I follow and if I dislike it, I'm disliking myself as a partner in crime. I can't escape that.

I won't see the day that my wishes come true, but I sure as hell know what they would be and unfortunately, religion isn't required in that dream.

 

[Boston tiger]

Really? The Bible's heavy implication that the world in fact is flat means that it wasn't a "simple" question at all. Unless, of course I'm the stupid one who should know that you think the world is flat?

As for the Muslim question - I'm going to pull one right out of the fundamentalist's play book and say "context". Go back, read that 'question' again; understand the context and come back to me you've actually figured it out.

Your last sentence really demonstrates the problem with religion. Do you even give a shit about all the pain and suffering in the world? Clearly you do not! Sob story... how disrespectful! These ARE the reasons why myself and many others do not ascribe to a religion.

If you take your Catholic hat off for a minute and actually ask yourself the tough questions, what conclusion can you possibly arrive at that suggests your God is fair, reasonable, just and loving? You simply can't. However, do enlighten me. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Context ? Why aren't you a Muslim. (Fishing) Stupid question that had nothing to with any context.

Do you think the world is flat ? Stupid stupid question.

By the way if I said I was going to hunt someone down to the four corners of the earth ?
Do you think I'm telling people that I think the Earth is a cube shaped, rectangular, rectangular prism or perhaps I'm saying nothing about the shape of the earth?

 

[chelseacarlton]

So God is still the creator? I just need clarification on that. Eg he is the creator because he was never created but has manifested himself physically as the universe ?

My problem with any of this is,whom owns the rights on the 'literal word of god'.
Judaism?
Christianity?
Islam?
A combination of or just the one?
Now,here is my real issue with the tenet of the sons and daughters(lol) of Abraham.
If an all encompassing creator of time space and matter were to pass on his/Her/it's absolute word of rules codes laws etc and maybe some cool ideas to make our lives better if it cared about us "we" would know it was him/Her/it in its writing.
There would be no doubt even for the doubters.
Where are the simple governing principles of math,engineering,thermodynamics etc,jeezuz,how about something blindingly simple like germ theory or even germination?
The 3 so-called holy books are nothing more than territorial tribal mans first attempts at explaining their surroundings.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Context ? Why aren't you a Muslim. (Fishing) Stupid question that had nothing to with any context.

Do you think the world is flat ? Stupid stupid question.

By the way if I said I was going to hunt someone down to the four corners of the earth ?
Do you think I'm telling people that I think the Earth is a cube shaped, rectangular, rectangular prism or perhaps I'm saying nothing about the shape of the earth?

You're saying that the earth is a flat square. And that flat square is held up by pillars. What spherical object has a corner?

 

[Procrastinator35]

You're saying that the earth is a flat square. And that flat square is held up by pillars. What spherical object has a corner?

I'm guessing that's the shape of your head too.

 

[Boston tiger]

My problem with any of this is,whom owns the rights on the 'literal word of god'.
Judaism?
Christianity?
Islam?
A combination of or just the one?
Now,here is my real issue with the tenet of the sons and daughters(lol) of Abraham.
If an all encompassing creator of time space and matter were to pass on his/Her/it's absolute word of rules codes laws etc and maybe some cool ideas to make our lives better if it cared about us "we" would know it was him/Her/it in its writing.
There would be no doubt even for the doubters.
Where are the simple governing principles of math,engineering,thermodynamics etc,jeezuz,how about something blindingly simple like germ theory or even germination?
The 3 so-called holy books are nothing more than territorial tribal mans first attempts at explaining their surroundings.

My answer would be that if God did send down something that was so mind boggling scientifically advanced then the show may as well be called off. No point us being here.
If he only sent a little scientific advance down then sort of what's the point.
Also if it was too advanced that prophet wouldn't be listened too .. maybe.

I liked your woo woo stuff. I think if you believe in any woo woo then all bets are on and who's to say who's woo is doing what.
At least with religion they say that the woo woo has interacted with humans. Muslims say the woo woo interacted with Mohamed if it didn't then he's lying or deluded... or it's true ..simple
Christians believe the woo woo came down in human form and walked with us for awhile.. lots of lying there and made up stories or.. true.

To say the woo only hangs around and hasn't interacted with us Is only guessing.. that's if you believe in the woo woo.
Hey it's woo woo and it can do whatever it wants.

 

[Power04Surge]

If humans in general just spent more time being kind to one another as they would there Gods we would be better off. Religion warps peoples judgement and values and breeds evil and seperation. Now let's all hold hands and dance around the earth.

 

[Boston tiger]

You're saying that the earth is a flat square. And that flat square is held up by pillars. What spherical object has a corner?

I didn't say that .. I said no matter where he goes I will hunt him down.

Now I think what is going on here is that you know that you are fairly thick but not as thick as some of those Christians that believe the world was made in 7 days.
So you come on here to bolster the ego.
Ask someone if they think the world is flat? Then whatever answer ..They've taken pictures from space and it's ball. Your religion is stupid just like you.
That is the only reason I think you would ask someone in the year 2016 if they think the world is flat.

 

[Pie eyed]

However christian sites do agree, just like the muslims ones;

The truth is that women in general, married or not, are to learn in submission in the church and are not to hold authoritative teaching positions such as pastor and elder which are repeated stated to be held by men.
We need to be faithful to God's Word.

https://carm.org/1-tim-212-13-and-women-pastors-and-elders

This is clearly sexist cause ofcourse you need to be faithful to "gods words" Islam is exactly the same, no women can be an Imam. This is discrimination and have no place in todays world. What if Mother Teresa wanted to be a Priest? you will shoot her down? how many priests are pedophiles btw? are males purer than women??? Are male priests so much better than female priests? again, extremely discriminatory.

Not sure why you are searching for any logic in their beliefs given they are so obviously just self serving rules?

 

[Total Power]

So God is still the creator? I just need clarification on that. Eg he is the creator because he was never created but has manifested himself physically as the universe ?

As Pantheism is the belief that everything is god and god is everything it does not attempt to really answer the question of creation.

But pantheistic religions like hinduism or buddhism says universe had many beginning and many deaths and its been going on infinitely , its without a beginning or an end.

 

[The Unforgiven]

I'm guessing that's the shape of your head too.

Could be worse. This is you, right?

 

[Total Power]

My answer would be that if God did send down something that was so mind boggling scientifically advanced then the show may as well be called off. No point us being here.
If he only sent a little scientific advance down then sort of what's the point.
Also if it was too advanced that prophet wouldn't be listened too .. maybe.

I liked your woo woo stuff. I think if you believe in any woo woo then all bets are on and who's to say who's woo is doing what.
At least with religion they say that the woo woo has interacted with humans. Muslims say the woo woo interacted with Mohamed if it didn't then he's lying or deluded... or it's true ..simple
Christians believe the woo woo came down in human form and walked with us for awhile.. lots of lying there and made up stories or.. true.

To say the woo only hangs around and hasn't interacted with us Is only guessing.. that's if you believe in the woo woo.
Hey it's woo woo and it can do whatever it wants.

My point is Jesus was the appearance of the divine in "avatar" form like Rama or Krishna in material world (Maya). Like them, when you are in material world you have to be governed by the rules of this world (none can rise above it, bible states that). Hence the story of resurrection and all should not be taken literally but metaphorically. This world has its laws/rule and no one can break them, the laws of physics dont change, never changed in our recorded history at atleast. Some people take biblical miracles or jesus literally. I think the original teachings of Jesus may have been long lost, since the earliest accounts of jesus was written six decades after his death. What we have is a cobbled together bunch of "might have beens". When you say Judaism is for the "desert", then why did Jesus talk about the "laws of the prophets" and violations of the scriptures will result in hell in the NT? i think this was more politically motivated writing than the actual preaching of Jesus and i can totally understand why would they do something like that.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Could be worse. This is you, right?

 

[paul180]

Just so you know the non believer are just trying to help you guys.

If you compare the believer with the non Believer,

The non Believer has more money, intelligence, education, housing, health and wellbeing, live longer (6 years), are happier, less likely to commit a violent act or be a victim of a violent act.
Much Much less likely to be a pregnant teen.

But the fact that I like the most is that they vote against their on self-interest. Because believers are the poor and not the rich, But will vote for the government that will cut tax on the rich (non Believers) and cut welfare for the poor (Believers) as long as the government are bad to gays and women etc.
So thanks for the cash and no you can't have it back

When this fact is pointed out to them, and even when they are taken thought the steps of they acts, their cognitive dissonance, the believer will still not think, and don't get it.

 

[chelseacarlton]

My answer would be that if God did send down something that was so mind boggling scientifically advanced then the show may as well be called off. No point us being here.
If he only sent a little scientific advance down then sort of what's the point.
Also if it was too advanced that prophet wouldn't be listened too .. maybe.

I liked your woo woo stuff. I think if you believe in any woo woo then all bets are on and who's to say who's woo is doing what.
At least with religion they say that the woo woo has interacted with humans. Muslims say the woo woo interacted with Mohamed if it didn't then he's lying or deluded... or it's true ..simple
Christians believe the woo woo came down in human form and walked with us for awhile.. lots of lying there and made up stories or.. true.

To say the woo only hangs around and hasn't interacted with us Is only guessing.. that's if you believe in the woo woo.
Hey it's woo woo and it can do whatever it wants.

No you've got the "woo woo" all wrong.
Here is the "woo woo" as us unbelievers see it feel it know it understand it.
Wait for it....right at the end,this is why "we" will never believe.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Just so you know the non believer are just trying to help you guys.

If you compare the believer with the non Believer,

The non Believer has more money, intelligence, education, housing, health and wellbeing, live longer (6 years), are happier, less likely to commit a violent act or be a victim of a violent act.
Much Much less likely to be a pregnant teen.

But the fact that I like the most is that they vote against their on self-interest. Because believers are the poor and not the rich, But will vote for the government that will cut tax on the rich (non Believers) and cut welfare for the poor (Believers) as long as the government are bad to gays and women etc.
So thanks for the cash and no you can't have it back

When this fact is pointed out to them, and even when they are taken thought the steps of they acts, their cognitive dissidence, the believer will still not think, and don't get it.

I've read some pretty stupid posts in my time.....This one is right up there..

 

[The Unforgiven]

I didn't say that .. I said no matter where he goes I will hunt him down.

Now I think what is going on here is that you know that you are fairly thick but not as thick as some of those Christians that believe the world was made in 7 days.
So you come on here to bolster the ego.
Ask someone if they think the world is flat? Then whatever answer ..They've taken pictures from space and it's ball. Your religion is stupid just like you.
That is the only reason I think you would ask someone in the year 2016 if they think the world is flat.

Ever thought of being a profiler? You'd be a hit!

I told you, the Bible heavily implies the earth was flat. Science has proven it's not. Eventually science will disprove everything in the Bible. You say "in 2016" as though we've come a long way as humans. Haha.

What question will someone ask in 2216 that if asked now would have someone like you making all the excuses under the sun? In 200 years we will have scientifically proven a lot more of what we're currently speculating on. What you defend now will be laughable in the future. I can't believe how you cannot see this.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Just so you know the non believer are just trying to help you guys.

If you compare the believer with the non Believer,

The non Believer has more money, intelligence, education, housing, health and wellbeing, live longer (6 years), are happier, less likely to commit a violent act or be a victim of a violent act.
Much Much less likely to be a pregnant teen.

But the fact that I like the most is that they vote against their on self-interest. Because believers are the poor and not the rich, But will vote for the government that will cut tax on the rich (non Believers) and cut welfare for the poor (Believers) as long as the government are bad to gays and women etc.
So thanks for the cash and no you can't have it back

When this fact is pointed out to them, and even when they are taken thought the steps of they acts, their cognitive dissidence, the believer will still not think, and don't get it.

Religious people vote Labor and Atheists vote the Libs? That's what I got out of this post. Oh, and "cognitive dissidence". That's a new one.

 

[Hatiko]

Sun-bathing on Mars eh?

Seems an awful lot of trouble to go to, just to get an all-over tan.

Oh, yep. I agree with you. Also there is a big chance that all Marcian society will be blow away for the surface. I've read here, that because of the thin atmosphere on Mars, the highest wind force that would occur would be at approximately 97 km (60 miles) per hour, which is barely half the wind force of a hurricane on Earth.

 

[Beutbrute]

Ever thought of being a profiler? You'd be a hit!

I told you, the Bible heavily implies the earth was flat. Science has proven it's not. Eventually science will disprove everything in the Bible. You say "in 2016" as though we've come a long way as humans. Haha.

What question will someone ask in 2216 that if asked now would have someone like you making all the excuses under the sun? In 200 years we will have scientifically proven a lot more of what we're currently speculating on. What you defend now will be laughable in the future. I can't believe how you cannot see this.

I don't think it really does imply that

What it does say:
Isaiah 40:22: He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

The Biblical Hebrew word for “circle” (חוג—chuwg) can also mean “round” or “sphere.”

 

[HARKER]

I don't think it really does imply that

What it does say:
Isaiah 40:22: He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

The Biblical Hebrew word for “circle” (חוג—chuwg) can also mean “round” or “sphere.”

Not sure how anyone could have thought that our world was flat and the observable ones just didn't happen to be so.

Having said that though, it still feels a little weird, laying on your back a well-manicured lawn, just watching the skies and knowing that if gravity happens to let go.....then off you go.

 

[Boston tiger]

No you've got the "woo woo" all wrong.
Here is the "woo woo" as us unbelievers see it feel it know it understand it.
Wait for it....right at the end,this is why "we" will never believe.

The god question has always been about the how. Religion .. how can we be better .. how can we find peace..how can we gain strength when disasters strikes. It's all about the how don't get fooled by the why. No one really gives a rats about why.
Science needs why as does religion but as Billy says it's about the how.

Billy Connolly the Scottish Comedian and if he goes woo woo that's great but he's talking about God/ religion in the context of brain washing, child molestation, and some people thinking the world was made 4000 years ago. Good on him and there would thousands with the same opinion.
Then you have thousand of thousands of real spiritual f***ckers who would say the opposite.

Anyway the poor bloke has got Parkinson's disease. Never a fan only because I couldn't understand him.