2017 Non Crows AFL Discussion Thread

[Mego Red]

I have watched children of dead shit parents become dead shit parents.
There will, unfortunately, always be a market.

My argument here is not to deny those with genuine mental health issues help, but the ones like this appalling person should NOT be on the streets.

I have zero - that is ZERO - sympathy for anything this idiot has had happen in his life. None. Don't care.
A baby, a child, someone's daughter and someone's someone's son and dad died.

**** him. I wish the cops had shot him dead.

Funnily enough, we're probably a lot closer in opinion than it sounds.

It just has to be a multifaceted approach, instead of just locking blokes up.

 

[the universal]

The idea that we should "build more jails" is ridiculous even for this site's low standards.

 

[DD#23]

I have watched children of dead shit parents become dead shit parents.
There will, unfortunately, always be a market.

My argument here is not to deny those with genuine mental health issues help, but the ones like this appalling person should NOT be on the streets.

I have zero - that is ZERO - sympathy for anything this idiot has had happen in his life. None. Don't care.
A baby, a child, someone's daughter and someone's someone's son and dad died.

**** him. I wish the cops had shot him dead.

why do you always drag us back to this reactive solution crap every time someone so much as mentions the mere possibility that we could or should consider proactive measures as well?

nobody is trying to say that its not too late for this guy, no one at all. No one is asking for sympathy. We all want him locked up. I haven't said a single thing to suggest the opposite ffs.

ALL I'm saying is just maybe its possible as a society to catch the next teenage basket case before he grows up into a lunatic murderer. You either believe some people are destined for that from the day they're born or you don't. If you can help early enough I don't believe anyone is beyond it, and as a society we need to try to identify and address the causes of these things.

if you believe these events are inevitable - after all you can't lock people until after they've committed the act can you - I don't understand why you're so irate about it to be perfectly honest, if you've accepted the worst parts of our society are beyond help you're left with having to expect the occasional horror-event aren't you. OR you could at least entertain the thought of positive change.

 

[Grooster24]

I

... someone's daughter and someone's someone's son and dad died.

Anyone else read this to a John Farnham tune....

 

[jenny61_99]

Plus, you dimwit, you liked a post stating that they didn't want the bloke to be a Crows supporter. How about you pull your idiotic head in.

Any chance you two can stop your petty squabbling and insults sometime soon? It's getting very tiresome.

 

[jenny61_99]

This almost feels like a copycat act of the recent truck attacks in France and Germany. Although not a extremist terrorist act, it's a familiar MO.
They were able to stop people with crazy intentions getting into plane cockpits, now how do you stop psychopaths from deadly driving of vehicles every adult has access to one. I think it's going to become a more common method of terror.

It already is. How many suicide bombers by car in the middle east and Asia? Police need to develop a weapon that allows them to disable a vehicle (without causing catastrophic consequences of doing so).

 

[GreyCrow]

I also think we need to change how we do things. Rack em pack em stack em doesn't work. The sign of a good society is not one geared towards a full prison mentality but one that is geared towards a low prison number.

Does anyone think that someone who in a moment of inattentiveness kills someone while driving their car cant be held in home detention? Does it make us any less of a society that someone who commits their first crime at 30 should be put in jail? (less murder, rape, child abuse violence etc) ie a 30 yr old who commits a fraud on a company shouldn't be a candidate for Home Detention?

There are roughly 3 kinds of people who commit crime. The Mad the Bad and the sad. ( stealing this from Rex Jory) The Bad, lock them up no arguments. This includes murderers , rapists, child abusers , people who commit violence against a person, people who rob with menace aforethought ie bring a gun or knife or number of participants , and those who thumb their nose at society and have had their one chance at reform. ie bikies and drug and drunk affected people who wont change.

The mad, who in a moment of passion commit crimes , these are also mainly in the above and we should take this moment into account in sentencing.

Then there are the sad, this includes those who have a mental affliction such as the above we have been talking about. The sad also include those in society who struggle with day to day living and the most offensive crime is stealing food or money to survive.

Each of these in their own way leave us with a decision to make. Do we leave them behind or do we help them. I for one would like us to help those in the last group the most.

That is the sign of a good society

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Hasn't every single person who's ever committed a crime got a reason?

 

[DD#23]

It already is. How many suicide bombers by car in the middle east and Asia? Police need to develop a weapon that allows them to disable a vehicle (without causing catastrophic consequences of doing so).

I was in Europe when the Nice attack happened, shortly after I noticed at street markets or events where the roads are closed off instead of just temporary rails and cones there were dragon's teeth laid out.

similarly you could block either end of Rundle Mall with bollards if you wanted to, but you have to be very careful about the use of defensive architecture and how that can effect your day to day.

 

[subaru]

Isn't the relevant part of that about the "new attitudes towards punishment"?

How many of those are in on pissant crimes?

Keep the streets safe is not the same as locking up 21 year olds selling dope (which, thank ****, isn't true in SA).

We're not talking about pissant crimes.
I'm talking when police state they do not want the person out on bail and that advice is ignored.
I'm talking about this

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...nd-murdered-jill-meagher-20150320-1m3otn.html

One of Victoria's most notorious criminals - the man who brutally r*ped and murdered Jill Meagher in 2012 - has been found guilty of raping three other women, with some of the offences committed while he was on parole for a string of other heinous crimes.
Bayley now has more than 20 convictions for rape.

and this
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-03/murder-victims-parents-sue-victorian-government/7811460

Elsa Corp, 26, was killed by David Patrick Clifford in a brutal, drug-induced, psychotic rage in a Melbourne hotel in 2010.

and this

At the time of the murder, he was on parole for drug offences and on bail after being charged with the violent assault of two men in 2008.

and this :
Stabbed 49 times.....

Masa was stabbed to death in a "random" daylight attack in a small park, less than a kilometre from her Doncaster home, in Melbourne's east on Tuesday evening.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/m...d-49-times-by-sean-price-20150817-gj0wni.html


http://www.smh.com.au/national/sean...d-in-new-court-documents-20150828-gj9zyn.html

Price will be sentenced soon, after pleading guilty to murdering Doncaster schoolgirl Masa Vukotic and raping a woman as part of a two-day crime spree in March, while he was on bail for other charges.

Shall I go on ????

why do you always drag us back to this reactive solution crap every time someone so much as mentions the mere possibility that we could or should consider proactive measures as well?

nobody is trying to say that its not too late for this guy, no one at all. No one is asking for sympathy. We all want him locked up. I haven't said a single thing to suggest the opposite ffs.

ALL I'm saying is just maybe its possible as a society to catch the next teenage basket case before he grows up into a lunatic murderer. You either believe some people are destined for that from the day they're born or you don't. If you can help early enough I don't believe anyone is beyond it, and as a society we need to try to identify and address the causes of these things.

if you believe these events are inevitable - after all you can't lock people until after they've committed the act can you - I don't understand why you're so irate about it to be perfectly honest, if you've accepted the worst parts of our society are beyond help you're left with having to expect the occasional horror-event aren't you. OR you could at least entertain the thought of positive change.

Where have I said that we are Nostradamus'?
Irate ! IRATE ?

How are you NOT irate ? And I am reacting to what happened. Not some namby pamby what if scenario.

It may help if you read what I posted.
I'm not talking about locking people up before they do the crime - just keep them ****ing locked up if they've committed one !
Maybe you could volunteer to house a parolee or two ?

Shall I go on?

 

[subaru]

The idea that we should "build more jails" is ridiculous even for this site's low standards.

The alternative to the cases I've quoted above - i.e. not having them in jails is even more ridiculous.

 

[subaru]

Funnily enough, we're probably a lot closer in opinion than it sounds.

It just has to be a multifaceted approach, instead of just locking blokes up.

Again - is it that hard to read what I wrote.
If they are dangerous, and the police don't recommend bail, and if they have previously been convicted of crimes, how the **** are they getting bail and getting out on parole ?

This guy was on bail - the police had opposed it.
Maybe if the police had been listened to we would be having one less conversation about a horrific incident that claimed the life of 2 adults, a ten year old and a baby.

 

[beartoo]

I also think we need to change how we do things. Rack em pack em stack em doesn't work. The sign of a good society is not one geared towards a full prison mentality but one that is geared towards a low prison number.

Does anyone think that someone who in a moment of inattentiveness kills someone while driving their car cant be held in home detention? Does it make us any less of a society that someone who commits their first crime at 30 should be put in jail? (less murder, rape, child abuse violence etc) ie a 30 yr old who commits a fraud on a company shouldn't be a candidate for Home Detention?

There are roughly 3 kinds of people who commit crime. The Mad the Bad and the sad. ( stealing this from Rex Jory) The Bad, lock them up no arguments. This includes murderers , rapists, child abusers , people who commit violence against a person, people who rob with menace aforethought ie bring a gun or knife or number of participants , and those who thumb their nose at society and have had their one chance at reform. ie bikies and drug and drunk affected people who wont change.

The mad, who in a moment of passion commit crimes , these are also mainly in the above and we should take this moment into account in sentencing.

Then there are the sad, this includes those who have a mental affliction such as the above we have been talking about. The sad also include those in society who struggle with day to day living and the most offensive crime is stealing food or money to survive.

Each of these in their own way leave us with a decision to make. Do we leave them behind or do we help them. I for one would like us to help those in the last group the most.

That is the sign of a good society

A former colleague of mine fell asleep at the wheel just after turning into his own street. The car went downhill into a house and killed someone. No alcohol or drugs involved. Got 5 years and came close to destroying his life. No criminal record. Upstanding citizen. Yeah, he shouldn't have been driving that tired, but who gained by him going to jail?

 

[subaru]

Hasn't every single person who's ever committed a crime got a reason?

No.
Sociopaths don't have reasons. They just don't care.
DSM-IV Definition. Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture

 

[beartoo]

That's paying the price for a terrible mistake.
It's not what I'm talking about.

I didn't address that remark to make a point against you, Sub, it was a general comment on the topic.

 

[GreyCrow]

Hasn't every single person who's ever committed a crime got a reason?

A reason but not an excuse.

So lets work out why the same reason keeps coming up and work on eliminating it. WH&S says we must investigate why people keep getting hurt at work. We then eliminate , isolate or engineer a solution. We dont ignore it

 

[subaru]

That's paying the price for a terrible mistake.
It's not what I'm talking about.

I didn't address that remark to make a point against you, Sub, it was a general comment on the topic.

I deleted it after re reading your post
All good

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

No.
Sociopaths don't have reasons. They just don't care.
DSM-IV Definition. Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture

Being a sociopath is their reason

 

[subaru]

Being a sociopath is their reason

Guess so.

 

[Pea Nut]

Keeping up with this thread is bogus !! Can we please start a "I know how to fix the world" thread so we can go back to discussing Fatty Wider and Bleedbert in this thread.

kthxbai

 

[Geoffa32]

This board needs a "Lynch Mob" thread.....




But not devoted to Tommy .....

Sent from my HTC_0P6B6 using Tapatalk

 

[subaru]

Keeping up with this thread is bogus !! Can we please start a "I know how to fix the world" thread so we can go back to discussing Fatty Wider and Bleedbert in this thread.

kthxbai

Away you go then. What about them would you like to discuss? This photo.....

 

[beartoo]

Away you go then. What about them would you like to discuss? This photo.....

Oh dear, you've done it again. Gonna be so many lawsuits around here....

 

[dogs105]

Oh dear, you've done it again. Gonna be so many lawsuits around here....

Can Subaru be locked up for copyright infringement, and we won't need to argue about this photo anymore?

 

[Bicks]

Father/Son /Daughter??