Current The Western Australian Current Trials Thread

[Bunnie]

You obviously not liking 3 pages of referenced content to experts lol
Nah. I can post more when its referenced. Not even close.

You mean liek the person deriving revenue out of my images on a blog with advertising filling their bank account?

While it may sell a few books for Debi, I derive no commercial revenue from the references.

Which means you have some sort of commercial interest in copyright which is why you are not liking the media publish suppression order.

Bunnie, would you like to declare you have a commercial interest in this case? Just say yes or no. Keep it boolean.

WTF are you on?
No commercial interest. No familial or social connections. I have a professional interest.
And it drives me insane when I see quasi-professional 'research' quoted as fact.
As it does when decades old research is quoted as current.
And when totally out there theories are piggybacked upon each other to try to support the other as fact.
And, like everyone else, I want to know the facts, not the urban myths.

Edited to add: i gave you a heads up about the breach of copyright laws because you will get this thread closed again if you continue posting whole chunks of copy/paste text. Read the posting T&Cs.

 

[Bunnie]

A thought on strategy. Can and should the accused have 3 separate trials? If so who benefits the accused or the prosecution?

Interesting. I think the accused would benefit from the 3 separate trials if the first one is found not guilty especially. Prosecution case is much stronger with one trial as evidence links them together giving a more complete profile.

 

[Kurve]

A thought on strategy. Can and should the accused have 3 separate trials? If so who benefits the accused or the prosecution?

Interesting. I think the accused would benefit from the 3 separate trials if the first one is found not guilty especially. Prosecution cas is much stronger with one trial as evidence links them together giving a more complete profile.

It would put the accused to a distinct advantage I think, although sentencing on guilt more than once might not be so advantageous and could backfire. I don't think either the defense or prosecution would be looking at separate trials as an option. Very expensive too, it wouldn't go down well with the public.

 

[Bunnie]

Telephone Lane.
Love how sometimes our streets have no-nonsense, practical names.

 

[Bunnie]

new stuff... https://postnewspapers.com.au/read-the-post/
Suggests the girls were murdered where their bodies were found.

 

[Kurve]

new stuff... https://postnewspapers.com.au/read-the-post/
Suggests the girls were murdered where their bodies were found.

That's cold and forensically tidy. He's contained them in the car for at least 40 minutes, assume restrained or surely one would have tried kicking his face in at least or risked a jump suspecting the destination was death. Horrible.

 

[Bunnie]

I wrote somewhere in between the pages of dribble that i thought he blitzed them, restrained them in some way (maybe cable ties) and then shoved them probably face down on the floor space between the front seat and rear seat. Really hard to wiggle up into a sitting position(especially if he has whacked them on the head), he could monitor movement because they are forced in against his seat, and hard to see for the casual observer. Screams etc would be muffled too. Explains the seat fibres found on Jane too.

 

[GreyCrow]

Thank you for the link Bunnie . I will reserve judgement for now on the sites named as the killing spots. I wonder if its a legal requirement rather than any forensic knowledge. I would also ask if the Defence could use this to confuse a jury?

 

[Kurve]

Thank you for the link Bunnie . I will reserve judgement for now on the sites named as the killing spots. I wonder if its a legal requirement rather than any forensic knowledge. I would also ask if the Defence could use this to confuse a jury?

Could be a convenience, police may not have pegged where the girls actually died and would rather leave it out. I don't think it's going to be necessary to prove that point in time either, just that he left them there and they were deceased by his hand when he did.

 

[Dan Baker]

I wrote somewhere in between the pages of dribble that i thought he blitzed them, restrained them in some way (maybe cable ties) and then shoved them probably face down on the floor space between the front seat and rear seat. Really hard to wiggle up into a sitting position(especially if he has whacked them on the head), he could monitor movement because they are forced in against his seat, and hard to see for the casual observer. Screams etc would be muffled too. Explains the seat fibres found on Jane too.

I feel the same, on the seat in the case with hands to the rear of the seat with at least one. Probably laid down, possibly tied with the plastic coated clothes line cable, or telephone cable. Whichever it was. Both have plastic coat which prevents DNA entry

The officer on television saying CSK was a fishermen lead me to believe this may have had something to do with the type of knots he may have used to restrain the girls.

It sounds like they got in the car, but I cant grasp how he overwhelmed them in the vehicle while driving unless he had a taser. In Debis book, police agreed they were somewhat inebriated. Friends would be able to confirm their alcohol consumption.

Reports said they told their friends they were tired.

DPP must have established bundled case builds bigger case, and there is more to come later if it falls over.
He will be sentenced on each individual charge.

I'll try to find the article later but I'm sure I saw somewhere there was evidence of him cleaning his car at the site.

This could be a furphy derived by a non BF user from profilers talking about him polishing his car?

I heard it, but not sure true. And the plonker that was fantasising about him chopping the bodies up on a tailgate of a ute. The forum user had typed this a couple of times.

new stuff... https://postnewspapers.com.au/read-the-post/
Suggests the girls were murdered where their bodies were found.

Killing at Woolcoot was risky. They must have been knocked out. There was a resident on Millar that reported a ute. Awfully close to be killing someone in the quiet of night.
There was also a white ute reported by Crimestoppers witnesses at Eglinton on Pippidinny.
Ciara was 1 km from a house. Jane was 350 metres, not far in quiet low traffic semi rural area.

I think he has strangled, then actually killed, cut throats at the site where they were on the ground.

 

[Kurve]

I would also ask if the Defence could use this to confuse a jury?

I think they could try Crow but I'm not sure it would be a real smart move.

 

[Bunnie]

That's cold and forensically tidy. He's contained them in the car for at least 40 minutes, assume restrained or surely one would have tried kicking his face in at least or risked a jump suspecting the destination was death. Horrible.

Exactly. And fits in with the idea of being able to compartmentalize his life and control his urges enough to stop. Cold rage. Now sits, waiting wearing his glasses to court, presenting the facade of Mr Ordinary Family Man because that is the role he has assumed for the later part of his life. In his own mind i suspect he is about a decade removed from the idea of being a killer, and would likely pass a lie detector because of this. On some base level he may actually now abhor his previous actions but still be fascinated by them. Almost a dichotomy.

 

[Dan Baker]

I'll try to find the article later but I'm sure I saw somewhere there was evidence of him cleaning his car at the site.

Mr Phibes might have been the culprit. However, police had said on TV, this guy polishes his car a lot which didn't help.

Interesting posts by Phantom62/D Phibes (they are same person I believe)
Some highlights:
1. This guy says police were looking for body parts when raiding Weyger's properties. The suggestion is killer cut of parts with DNA or bite marks
2. Apparently police have found car wash chemicals at both scenes so the killer washes his, or part of his car. If true it goes along with what most people think: CSK is a pro. Wouldn't be Mark Dixie.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-6

Additionally someone said he didnt work as an electrical engineer.
Maybe WAToday did speculate
"WAtoday understands he works as an electrical engineer and may have previously held positions with Telstra and in the mining industry."

 

[Dan Baker]

Do you mean interior was spotless? How do you know that Dan? Looked like he hadn't had a shave for a few days. From past pics compared to the glimpses I got when he was arrested, looked dishevelled. I won't be surprised to hear he'd started to unravel under pressure, that he knew they were coming.

The grass was high, but there was not residual junk laying round in the images. Everything is packed away nice and neat. The outside the house was tidy. Old car in drive. No other bits and bobs in drive. Generally, apart from the grass. The house was neat eternally. No bottles nothing.

Car not parked in garage. Must be something in there. Possible no personal car, but owns grey tandem box trailer. Trailer appears new acquisition. Antenna on garage roof

Is that camera pointing at bins mounted on garage?

What would a telstra tech need a grey box 'tandem' trailer for? Certainly not grass clippings.

 

[Dan Baker]

Who of the ghouls blogged about wetwork on the tailgate of a car? Which one of these two?

Not blogged. They were forum posts. Not sure that username. Something about processing bodies on tailgate, which was horrible.
It might of been Gary Hughes blog. It was pretty crass

Talk about DNA all over your ail gate

phantom62
Wed 15 Nov 06 (05:08am)
This is very interesting, but as far as I know, the police have NO DNA found on the bodies of the two victims so far found. They have stated that the bodies were in too advanced a state of decomposition to obtain any. But here is something I have suspected for a while. It is based on the fact that the police warrant stipulated that they were searching for human body tissue and flesh when they were searching Mr Weygers properties. The police have stated that they killer washed his car on site after dumping the bodies. I suspect that the killer only washed the part of the car that may have bloodstains on it. The killer probably drives a utility or station wagon and would have used the tailgate to “process” the body before dumping them. That is to say, the killer needed to remove body parts that may have got DNA on them during the course of the murder.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-6
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...ralian/comments/uk_link_in_wa_serial_murders/

Considering the grass wasnt mowed. There is no other objects around the yard really. The unkept house, not really.

 

[Molly Dooker]

new stuff... https://postnewspapers.com.au/read-the-post/
Suggests the girls were murdered where their bodies were found.

I wonder if this is merely because the police haven't been able to find another site. The prosecution needs to construct a narrative and for want of an alternative kill site, the dump site has been nominated as the kill site (as they can prove the victims were there). Keeps it simple in the absence of a viable intermediate site.


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[Molly Dooker]

Exactly. And fits in with the idea of being able to compartmentalize his life and control his urges enough to stop. Cold rage. Now sits, waiting wearing his glasses to court, presenting the facade of Mr Ordinary Family Man because that is the role he has assumed for the later part of his life. In his own mind i suspect he is about a decade removed from the idea of being a killer, and would likely pass a lie detector because of this. On some base level he may actually now abhor his previous actions but still be fascinated by them. Almost a dichotomy.

An interesting idea.


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[Dan Baker]

Exactly. And fits in with the idea of being able to compartmentalize his life and control his urges enough to stop. Cold rage. Now sits, waiting wearing his glasses to court, presenting the facade of Mr Ordinary Family Man because that is the role he has assumed for the later part of his life. In his own mind i suspect he is about a decade removed from the idea of being a killer, and would likely pass a lie detector because of this. On some base level he may actually now abhor his previous actions but still be fascinated by them. Almost a dichotomy.

How do we know since his last marriage split he hadn't fired up again?

What about Deborah Michelle Anderson? Deb went missing Australia day weekend? Spiers went 26th?

"Deborah Michelle Anderson, 24yrs of age, found 12.26 am in burnt out vehicle Dance Drive, Middle Swan, WA on the 25th Jauary 2000."
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/DeborahAnderson.htm

 

[annawinter608]

I wonder if this is merely because the police haven't been able to find another site. The prosecution needs to construct a narrative and for want of an alternative kill site, the dump site has been nominated as the kill site (as they can prove the victims were there). Keeps it simple in the absence of a viable intermediate site.


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It's logical.


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[Dan Baker]

I wonder if this is merely because the police haven't been able to find another site. The prosecution needs to construct a narrative and for want of an alternative kill site, the dump site has been nominated as the kill site (as they can prove the victims were there). Keeps it simple in the absence of a viable intermediate site.

Police said they had felt the girls had been killed shortly after their abduction. I will be interested to hear Ciaras time out dead in the scrub. If the current accused did not continue on a Madora bay holiday house, what path would be logical to head back home?
I guess police have a time line from wives about marital issues and any time apart.
If there is throats cut, you would think that occurred at the site to prevent police investigation discovery later at any the premises.

Exactly. And fits in with the idea of being able to compartmentalize his life and control his urges enough to stop. Cold rage. Now sits, waiting wearing his glasses to court, presenting the facade of Mr Ordinary Family Man because that is the role he has assumed for the later part of his life. In his own mind i suspect he is about a decade removed from the idea of being a killer, and would likely pass a lie detector because of this. On some base level he may actually now abhor his previous actions but still be fascinated by them. Almost a dichotomy.

An interesting idea.

Police have already elaborated on this in profile detail in the television media. Everyone can see through straight through the councils tactics.
People are assuming he hasn't killed in two decades. Hes delusional. He's convinced himself he is smarter than police with crimes that police have to reverse engineer.
Once prosecution starts ripping into him, that delusion is going to start to falter. He hasn't even entered a plea. That's an err on the side caution. Its just going to be just the depth that varies.

 

[Dan Baker]

WTF are you on?
No commercial interest. No familial or social connections. I have a professional interest.
And it drives me insane when I see quasi-professional 'research' quoted as fact.
As it does when decades old research is quoted as current.
And when totally out there theories are piggybacked upon each other to try to support the other as fact.
And, like everyone else, I want to know the facts, not the urban myths.

Edited to add: i gave you a heads up about the breach of copyright laws because you will get this thread closed again if you continue posting whole chnks of copy/paste text. Read the posting T&Cs.

Thats a presumption. You obviously are welled versed in copyright. I just asked if you are a journo etc with a commercial interest in the matter. Simple questions you don't answer,and throw up your defences with an over reaction. Classic guilt complex. Always a convoluted answer without a simple yes/no answer.

Mods can advise us on copyright. Most the posts are the same reference to keep context. Again, you are not a moderator.

Most of Debs info is received from law enforcement professionals. The book has a few minor inaccuracies. It was early in the peace, but Id take it over an online commentator with an alias username without source reference. The book CSK profiling is a classic example of law enforcement reference.

 

[Bunnie]

Thats a presumption. You obviously are welled versed in copyright. I just asked if you are a journo etc with a commercial interest in the matter. Simple questions you don't answer,and throw up your defences with an over reaction. Classic guilt complex. Always a convoluted answer without a simple yes/no answer.

Mods can advise us on copyright. Most the posts are the same reference to keep context. Again, you are not a moderator.

Most of Debs info is received from law enforcement professionals. The book has a few minor inaccuracies. It was early in the peace, but Id take it over an online commentator with an alias username without source reference. The book CSK profiling is a classic example of law enforcement reference.

I think I have been very clear in my answers. Especially the bits where I say no. Alot. To all of your accusations. And would appreciate it if you stop asking me personal questions. I certainly don't ask you to justify your interest in this case or accuse you of connections or wanting to make a financial gain and you have no right to ask me.

Not one iota of classic guilt reaction, sorry to disappoint.

As for the book, it contains police information, or is based on some information shared but when a writer states 'facts' they need to cite and reference this, otherwise it is opinion not fact and should be treated as such.

And, just for clarity. .. no, not a journalist.

 

[Dan Baker]

Thanks Bunnie

Scratch car washing/cleaning at the site, lot of talk about people seeing it in the press somewhere but I can't find an article, I don't think it happened. It doesn't sound right anyway, I'd think most people would want to put some distance in as quickly as possible. Not hang about washing (borrow the neighbours hose) and polishing your car.

I think a lot of the rumour was started by the above tailgate garbage quotes in previous posts and profilers saying he polished his car a lot on television reports. Which probably relates more to OCD.
Not really sure what chemicals a Telstra tech would carry in their car. Possibly electronics cleaning fluid.

When you consider the 40 VS Commodore fibres found on Janes body, that must mean that she was on the seat at some time. How he overwhelms them in the car while driving along is beyond me. The girls must have been strangled prior arrival to the scene as there was only a house 350 metres from Janes site and it was quiet which would carry some sound. He must have checked the area prior. The accused would have more than likely passed that way from home to Madora. There is still the potential for traffic at 1am in the morning but he would have heard and seen it coming in the dark of night.
He must have been quick with Jane facing North on that side of the road, unless he dragged her across the road. The risk was quite high being stopped there as it became the shortcut for heading south.

Coordinates on electronic devices move about 100mm per year relative the GDA datum. In 20 years that is a rough contintental shift of 2 metres.

There is a lot to be said about government vetting departments now for psychopaths. Not that government is sitting still. Consultants being put through government departments to isolate any future legal cases has been going for some time, even the police department. This all relates to security issues with government and clearances associated with business risk.
*The early earth raster in 2003 is out a little

 

[Dan Baker]

 

[Kurve]

There is a lot to be said about government vetting departments now for psychopaths.

Psychopaths vetting psychopaths

One in five bosses apparently is a psychopath.