Bluemour Discussion Thread III

[slashin_velvet]

The AFL also said priority picks will be handed out only in exceptional circumstances, taking in a wide variety of situations that cannot be neatly codified in statistics like wins and losses. In other words, context.

We don't deserve a priority pick nor would we get one. End. Of. Story

Agree. But I'd still be asking regardless.

 

[agro]

The AFL also said priority picks will be handed out only in exceptional circumstances, taking in a wide variety of situations that cannot be neatly codified in statistics like wins and losses. In other words, context.

We don't deserve a priority pick nor would we get one. End. Of. Story

I'll be interested to hear the AFL's context of granting Essendon a Priority Pick in this years Draft.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

this is where front end contracts on working things out so we will have space in a couple years could be handy.
Front end a deal deals now to hit 95% so then when we are closer to striking a FA signing would be possible and happen at the right time for us to make a charge

We're already doing that, it's fact Gibbs for example will earn bugger all compared to first 3 years of his current contract.

I'd bet my left nut Murphy would be the same and Cripps/Weitering as well when they did their contracts.

You either overpay average footballers or you well overpay good very young footballers and hope it doesn't give them a sense of self entitlement 5 years down the track.

25% in one year is massive in TPP terms, especially when we're already well below and then moving on the Jones/Daisy types. We'd be talking a potential increase in room in our cap of 35% plus.

People need to comprehend this.

 

[Spitfire1801]

We should get a couple of assistant coaches to enter into the pre season draft, pay them through the salary cap, reduce our coaching spend thus reducing allowing any luxury tax, at the end of the year delist them pick them up as assistant coaches and have a massive stash of cash to bring in a free agent.

 

[Blue__Balls]

We should get a couple of assistant coaches to enter into the pre season draft, pay them through the salary cap, reduce our coaching spend thus reducing allowing any luxury tax, at the end of the year delist them pick them up as assistant coaches and have a massive stash of cash to bring in a free agent.

That's certainly some...creative...accounting.

 

[IronMan29]

Agreed.
Had he passed that fitness test he'd be playing for Collingwood.

I will tell you guys still discussing Kruezer meeting with Collingwood and having a fitness test was utter crap. He had approaches via his management and Collingwood was not one of them.

And for those discussing FA. He will hang-up the boots before he plays for another club. This I can tell you with 100% honest, hand on heart, from the horses mouth.

And for those that are questioning if I am just a fan who stopped him in the street or after a training session, I can tell you otherwise.

 

[Red Bull]

I will tell you guys still discussing Kruezer meeting with Collingwood and having a fitness test was utter crap. He had approaches via his management and Collingwood was not one of them.

And for those discussing FA. He will hang-up the boots before he plays for another club. This I can tell you with 100% honest, hand on heart, from the horses mouth.

And for those that are questioning if I am just a fan who stopped him in the street or after a training session, I can tell you otherwise.

Seem to recall you having strong info re Kruezer in the past IronMan29 so sounds like we can put any thoughts of Kruezer leaving to bed .
Cheers

 

[Foucault1989]

I'll be interested to hear the AFL's context of granting Essendon a Priority Pick in this years Draft.

The AFL are granting Essendon a priority pick? Highly doubt that

 

[Foucault1989]

Agree. But I'd still be asking regardless.

Sure we can ask and might ask but I wouldn't be spending time here discussing potential drafting and trade scenarios with a priority pick involved. I also wouldn't be surprised if we cop some solid banter from other clubs and oppositional supporters if we asked. The position we are in is no ones fault but ours because we basically wasted four drafts.

 

[Unknown Origin]

By "cocky" I mean you are saying words to the effect we are going so well we don't need a priority pick.

We have lost 14 of our last 16 games FFS!!!

We have won 2 games since 4 July 2016.

This situation is exactly what priority picks are for - to accelerate a rebuild so a club can be competitive again as quickly as possible.

Spot on. If ever club needs help it is us atm.
We will jag maybe 1 or 2 games for the year giving us around 3 to 4 wins.
That would mean we would have won 3-4 games out of the last 34 games.
Anyone want to re-think asking for a PP? Yes....we are really that bad.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Sure we can ask and might ask but I wouldn't be spending time here discussing potential drafting and trade scenarios with a priority pick involved. I also wouldn't be surprised if we cop some solid banter from other clubs and oppositional supporters if we asked. The position we are in is no ones fault but ours because we basically wasted four drafts.

Brisbane were in the position they ended up with because they didn't appropriately vet the character of draftees and had a terrible culture. Added to this a string of average coaches and poor off field decisions meant they were a rabble like us.

 

[Red Bull]

Brisbane were in the position they ended up with because they didn't appropriately vet the character of draftees and had a terrible culture. Added to this a string of average coaches and poor off field decisions meant they were a rabble like us.

And what about those shithouse paddlepop jumpers !!
I wouldn't wanna run out looking like some kind of cartoon character joke ...

 

[Foucault1989]

Brisbane were in the position they ended up with because they didn't appropriately vet the character of draftees and had a terrible culture. Added to this a string of average coaches and poor off field decisions meant they were a rabble like us.

Context, context context. We didn't lose draftees to different clubs we delisted them. They selected what they believed to be the best available AFL players and lost them to other clubs. Personally I agree with the cultural argument and for that reason I would not have given them a priority pick however given they are a struggling club in the northern states who lost so much talent in a short space of time means the context is different. On the other hand, we picked lemons and perhaps had an average culture as well in terms of player development.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Spot on. If ever club needs help it is us atm.
We will jag maybe 1 or 2 games for the year giving us around 3 to 4 wins.
That would mean we would have won 3-4 games out of the last 34 games.
Anyone want to re-think asking for a PP? Yes....we are really that bad.

What is it with people conveniently selecting a timeline that suits their narrative?

"...we would have won 3-4 games out of the last 34 games"? Yet you ignore the games we won at the start of last season? Why?

We won 7 games last season. We'll probably win 3-6 this season, which is no surprise given we're making a concerted effort to play the kids we've stocked up on in the last two years. Anyone with a modicum of sense could see that this year was going to be more of a struggle than last year as we lessened our reliance on our older players and handed more responsibility to the first and second year players. Of the teams that we "out-performed" last year, Essendon had an artificial down year, Gold Coast were slammed by injury, and Freo tanked after losing their two most important players. So we had a better than expected year last year, and should perform at a realistic, expected level this year given our development stage.

The draft order is set up the way it is to allow lower placed teams access to the better players.

Being down the bottom of the ladder is not cause for a priority pick.

Does that mean we won't ask for it? No. But anyone who thinks we deserve a priority pick, or somehow "need" one in order to drag ourselves out of football purgatory is kidding themselves. Ditto if you think the AFL would even consider giving us one - not gonna happen.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Context, context context. We didn't lose draftees to different clubs we delisted them. They selected what they believed to be the best available AFL players and lost them to other clubs. Personally I agree with the cultural argument and for that reason I would not have given them a priority pick however given they are a struggling club in the northern states who lost so much talent in a short space of time means the context is different. On the other hand, we picked lemons and perhaps had an average culture as well in terms of player development.

Not all the players we lost were lemons.

Betts, Waite, Henderson, Touhy, Garlett, Robinson, Bell. All best 22 players at their respective clubs (2 players at who we lost to Brisbane). All players who left because they weren't happy with our club or culture. We traded them much like Brisbane did with their draftees they had failed to adequately screen.

 

[gandaal]

We should get a couple of assistant coaches to enter into the pre season draft, pay them through the salary cap, reduce our coaching spend thus reducing allowing any luxury tax, at the end of the year delist them pick them up as assistant coaches and have a massive stash of cash to bring in a free agent.

We're already far down that road. Malthouse and Daisy were ahead of their time.

 

[Unknown Origin]

What is it with people conveniently selecting a timeline that suits their narrative?

"...we would have won 3-4 games out of the last 34 games"? Yet you ignore the games we won at the start of last season? Why?

We won 7 games last season. We'll probably win 3-6 this season, which is no surprise given we're making a concerted effort to play the kids we've stocked up on in the last two years. Anyone with a modicum of sense could see that this year was going to be more of a struggle than last year as we lessened our reliance on our older players and handed more responsibility to the first and second year players. Of the teams that we "out-performed" last year, Essendon had an artificial down year, Gold Coast were slammed by injury, and Freo tanked after losing their two most important players. So we had a better than expected year last year, and should perform at a realistic, expected level this year given our development stage.

The draft order is set up the way it is to allow lower placed teams access to the better players.

Being down the bottom of the ladder is not cause for a priority pick.

Does that mean we won't ask for it? No. But anyone who thinks we deserve a priority pick, or somehow "need" one in order to drag ourselves out of football purgatory is kidding themselves. Ditto if you think the AFL would even consider giving us one - not gonna happen.

You can down play it any way you like, reality is we have lost 14 of our last 16. Pretty simple I'd thought

 

[Foucault1989]

Not all the players we lost were lemons.

Betts, Waite, Henderson, Touhy, Garlett, Robinson, Bell. All best 22 players at their respective clubs (2 players at who we lost to Brisbane). All players who left because they weren't happy with our club or culture. We traded them much like Brisbane did with their draftees they had failed to adequately screen.

I'll be pedantic and highlight that the players we lost were not from recent drafts. The players we delisted came from the 2008 -2013 drafts. They would form our 23 - 28 year olds on our list which we are currently lacking. That is why we are stuffed. They are stuffed because their picks from 2011 onwards packed up and left in a short space of time so slightly different. I see your point however and agree with the overall position you are putting forward

 

[Foucault1989]

Not all the players we lost were lemons.

Betts, Waite, Henderson, Touhy, Garlett, Robinson, Bell. All best 22 players at their respective clubs (2 players at who we lost to Brisbane). All players who left because they weren't happy with our club or culture. We traded them much like Brisbane did with their draftees they had failed to adequately screen.

I'm talking players like Bootsma, Giles, Mitchell, Lucas, Watson, Holman, DVR, Smith and many I've probs forgotten or repressed - these failures by Shane Rogers and co are the reason why we suck eggs

 

[happydude]

Lol this thread is like read socialists vs capitalists.

Socialists: we're poor and need help
Capitalists: We put ourselves here and need to work our way out.

 

[The_Wookie]

Not all the players we lost were lemons.

Betts, Waite, Henderson, Touhy, Garlett, Robinson, Bell. All best 22 players at their respective clubs (2 players at who we lost to Brisbane). All players who left because they weren't happy with our club or culture. We traded them much like Brisbane did with their draftees they had failed to adequately screen.

betts didnt leave because he was unhappy. Waite did. henderson chased finals, Touhy wasnt happy with his pay offer. garlett was given marching orders, as was robinson. Bell left for family.

 

[Foucault1989]

Lol this thread is like read socialists vs capitalists.

Socialists: we're poor and need help
Capitalists: We put ourselves here and need to work our way out.

Haha...at heart I'm more socialist inclined yet here I must sound like a capitalist 'pigdog'. Halp!!!

 

[agro]

The AFL are granting Essendon a priority pick? Highly doubt that

I think you missed the part where my tongue was firmly planted in cheek.


But don't forget it is the "makey uppy" AFL we are talking about.

 

[Foucault1989]

I think you missed the part where my tongue was firmly planted in cheek.


But don't forget it is the "makey uppy" AFL we are talking about.

Haha touche. The AFL wouldn't want their precious bomber boys to experience any hardship. How they were able to get pick 1 in a season where their players were suspended is beyond me.

 

[Wickzki]

I have a feeling that we're in with a shout of getting a priority pick. It may not be after the first round but it may be between the second and third.

Grounds for Carlton getting a priority pick:

• Last time we finished in the top 8 was 2011
• Last time we played finals was 2013 (finished ninth but played finals due to Essendon's penalties)
• Have since won 7, 4, 7 and ? (likely less than 7 games)
• 2016 improvement can be marked down as somewhat of an anomaly due to Freo's unexpected crash, Essendon (who we still dropped a game to), Gold Coast (injuries after starting the season well)
• Poor judgment on the AFL's part for not rewarding Carlton a compo pick for the loss of Jarrad Waite
• Key players leaving the club as free agents (Betts)
• Key players demanding a trade ((Gibbs,) Henderson and Tuohy)
• Aside from Daisy Thomas the club being unable to lure quality out of contract players to the club

There's more than enough fluff there for the media to justify it. I just don't believe it'll be a high pick. I also see the majority of Carlton fans buying into it from the AFL as a make up and assistance.