Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[4thchicken]

Firstly on better money than he's already on ? As i believe he's on a pretty good wicket now .

he has shown a lot more in the past few weeks than he has for his entire career - assuming he continues the form through to end of year, he WILL attract a pretty decent contract given finding a very good KPD is difficult. At 26, he is probably at 'peak contract $/poaching age' - combine that with inflation/new EBA, it is not unreasonable to expect that Jones would get a contract that is better than what he is on now

Secondly 3-4 years are you a player agent ??
I think Liam Jones should be shining SOS and bolts shoes begging to stay where he is given how well he's been looked after contract wise whilst playing mostly seconds football....

Not uncommon for teams poaching players/enticing them to move clubs to offer 1-2 more years. I don't disagree that Jones has been looked after the past few years but that means 4/5th of F all when it comes to his next contract - Jones' next contract will be based on form, development and anticipated future performance - particularly for other clubs looking for a KPD

Having said that, I'm in total agreement that it is his current contract and lack of performances until recent that would make the club hesitant to offer more $/longer contract i.e. competitive market rate. That is why I think he will be a good trade commodity come end of season

 

[katmanblue]

In all fairness that was posted before our game yesterday.

I know. Bit like a magic trick.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RAPPA]

Mate. He's the captain. The captain is a cornerstone of club culture, no matter who he is. IMO.

Ryan Griffen disagrees.

 

[Iamcarlton]

he has shown a lot more in the past few weeks than he has for his entire career - assuming he continues the form through to end of year, he WILL attract a pretty decent contract given finding a very good KPD is difficult. At 26, he is probably at 'peak contract $/poaching age' - combine that with inflation/new EBA, it is not unreasonable to expect that Jones would get a contract that is better than what he is on now

Not uncommon for teams poaching players/enticing them to move clubs to offer 1-2 more years. I don't disagree that Jones has been looked after the past few years but that means 4/5th of F all when it comes to his next contract - Jones' next contract will be based on form, development and anticipated future performance - particularly for other clubs looking for a KPD

Having said that, I'm in total agreement that it is his current contract and lack of performances until recent that would make the club hesitant to offer more $/longer contract i.e. competitive market rate. That is why I think he will be a good trade commodity come end of season

I think if he continues this form for the rest of the year the club will offer jones 2x500 contract and he'll fall over himself to sign it .

 

[HARKER]

Mate. He's the captain. The captain is a cornerstone of club culture, no matter who he is. IMO.

Rockcliff? No, I'm not comparing apples with apples........although that may have been where the rot set in for Brisbane.

Captains come and go and some will be remembered more favourably than others. There isn't just one mould for captaincy.

 

[Burgers45]

I think if he continues this form for the rest of the year the club will offer jones 2x500 contract and he'll fall over himself to sign it .

What if another club offers him more (As in Touhy's case) and we don't match it. He is likely to move to the club that offers him a better contract. Players getting towards the end of their careers like to set up their future after football. If you havn't forgotten, it's a business now.

 

[Iamcarlton]

What if another club offers him more (As in Touhy's case) and we don't match it. He is likely to move to the club that offers him a better contract. Players getting towards the end of their careers like to set up their future after football. If you havn't forgotten, it's a business now.

The club lowballed tuohy i believe so the amounts offered was probably a fair way apart so dont blame Tuohy for leaving . Jones is a different case to get a 3 year contract on pretty good money to begin with us was generous . And then to play mostly seconds football i think he's lucky to be still on the list I would think Jones will take that into account . And lets be honest he's not going to be offered big money elsewhere so if 2×500 which is good money even with the cap going up he would/should be happy with that imo .

 

[btdg]

I've said it in this thread before, but yesterday showed why we need to keep Gibbs. He's our best midfielder, and he's only 28. Being in the team keeps us competitive, gets our kids reps in meaningful games, which accelerates their development and makes the club a better environment to play in.

This isn't a decade ago, where the path to rebuilding was exclusively the draft. This is the free-agency era, where 4-5 years is a long, long time. 4 years ago we were thinking we were on the cusp of a premiership. Look how that panned out.

Serious question - would it be too early to go all-in? What about an all-in strategy that looks something like:

Step 1: Negotiate terms with Josh Kelly AND Dustin Martin. If space allows, target Johanisen too (but's lets assume that's unrealistic) The salary cap stuff can take care of itself later
Step 2: Trade up to get pick 1 from Brisbane. Offer, say, pick 4 + 2018 first for pick 1 and pick 19.
Step 3: Leverage a trade with GWS. Offer pick 1 and 19 for Kelly and Hopper. If they don't buy in, that's fine - Kelly can walk to the draft and we settle for him alone with pick 1. Lets assume they agree to this.
Step 4: Balance salary cap so we can manage going forward. Maybe trade out some fringe players for future 3rd/4th round picks if necessary (always useful to stock up there)
Step 5: Profit

2018 team suddenly looks terrifying on paper:
b: Marchbank, Jones, Plowman
hb: Simpson, Weitering, Williamson, Docherty (spare)
c: Murphy, Cripps, Kelly
hf: Fisher, Curnow, SPS
f: J-SOS, Casboult
Foll: Kreuzer, Gibbs, Martin
Bench: Hopper, E.Curnow, Cunningham, Thomas

Depth: Wright (possible salary dump), McKay, Boekhurst, Pickett, ASOS, Phillips, Kerridge, Macreadie, White,
Speculative retains: Polson, Kerr, Byrne,
Likely casualties due to salary cap (but worth keeping if possible): Lamb, Smedts, Graham, Palmer,
Probable delist: Sumner, Gorringe, Sheeham, Jaksch, Armfield,

That team a) competes for a top 4 spot, if not a premiershp and b) has 11 players aged 23 or younger at the start of the season. Martin/Kelly/Cripps gives us an A-Grade starting midfield for half a decade, with Hopper, SPS, Cunningham and Fisher potentially filling in as Murphy/Gibbs decline. There's a stack of depth as well, depending on how things play out. Our forward line is still young/weak, but then again, it'll have better service, more mids resting forward, and more goals from the mids generally (with Kelly and Murphy playing on the outside...).

Can we convince Kelly/Martin/Hopper all to come to Carlton? Hard, but we've been there before. Can we clear/reshuffle salary cap to make it possible? No doubt, if this is what we're committed to.

Anyway, just a thought exercise. I don't necessarily think this is what we should do, but if we're even thinking about Kelly, this is the way I'd go about it

 

[Blue_Fusion]

So Kane Cornes now saying Crows should've offered their 2016 + 2017 1st's for Gibbs last year. Hahaha going to cost them a bit more now you clown. Maybe you should think about that instead of writing up a pile of shit about how he wasn't worth that.

 

[ParapMarkets]

43 possessions from Gibbs just put his price up dramatically.

Adelaide's 2017 first & 2018 first is now the asking price.

Plus 2 clutch goals in the fourth quarter to drag the team over the line after the Suns hit the front.

 

[Teagueeee15]

So Kane Cornes now saying Crows should've offered their 2016 + 2017 1st's for Gibbs last year. Hahaha going to cost them a bit more now you clown. Maybe you should think about that instead of writing up a pile of shit about how he wasn't worth that.

Really? He spent the whole week on trade radio last year saying Gibbs wasn't worth anything near that. Mike Sheehan would be proud of that flip flop.

 

[therubbernub]

This time last year...odds on Liam Jones and Alex Silvagni being our best KPD pairing?

Paul Brodie suggested Liam move to defence- masterstroke, perhaps he has had a hand in most of our selections (unofficially of course- but how are you going to police his ban?) In any case I get the feeling that SOS/PB make an amazing recruiting team . It looks to me that we have aced both drafts since the return of SOS- and THAT gives me enormous confidence going forward- knowing that no matter where our draft picks come, we are going to pick up a player that will more than likely play good football for us. With a continual stream of at least 3 new AFL quality players every year we will continue to improve and eventually become the team that is the benchmark for the competition . But these guys havent done it alone- it is the combination of development by the coaching team - especially the assistants and Josh , who now seem to be on the same page as BB. And of course the Little Master . Diminutive he may be, but he sure knows how to coach . This guy and the team he has assembled will take us to the top , there is no doubt in my mind now. Hat tip to the guys running the club for getting him in- it was a masterstroke of epic proportions

 

[therubbernub]

Doubt Adelaide would offer that though given what they offered last year.

They have been sent to stand in the corner for a year and have learnt their lesson. NEVER try to take advantage of SOS again. SOS will be even harder to deal with this time. If they want BG they will have to pay -firstly for Bryce and secondly for their knobery

 

[bluemahogany]

SOS into some voodoo magic getting all our trade and draft targets to drop their value because of injury

 

[thylacine60]

so much knobery....

 

[ODNBlue]

Ryan Griffen disagrees.

I'm so sick of Griffen being thrown up as some sort of exemplar of how captains should be treated. He wanted out. He left the club. He was not actively traded. If Murph feels the same way, then that's fine. But there's nothing to suggest he does.

 

[therubbernub]

I'm so sick of Griffen being thrown up as some sort of exemplar of how captains should be treated. He wanted out. He left the club. He was not actively traded. If Murph feels the same way, then that's fine. But there's nothing to suggest he does.

Murph is no quitter. Griffen can GGF

 

[Styxx]

If we still want Lynch, do we dangle the carrot of being friends with the Beast instead of his enemy?

Might get us over the line.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Really? He spent the whole week on trade radio last year saying Gibbs wasn't worth anything near that. Mike Sheehan would be proud of that flip flop.

Yep. Then Nathan Brown chimed in with a "no doubt they should have!"

 

[ODNBlue]

Rockcliff? No, I'm not comparing apples with apples........although that may have been where the rot set in for Brisbane.

Captains come and go and some will be remembered more favourably than others. There isn't just one mould for captaincy.

Not only not an apple, not even a captain...

I get that Murphy may not be remembered as one of the great Carlton captains, but he is a Carlton captain and is not a tradable commodity unless he wants to go chase money, premierships... but again, there's nothing to suggest that he does. IMO.

 

[F_therest]

Yep. Then Nathan Brown chimed in with a "no doubt they should have!"

Well at least the media jumping on board our side can only help us if Gibbs requests a trade again.

If all the media and public perception suddenly shifts in our favour and agree that Adelaide need to pay 2 x 1sts minimum, then we'll get at least that otherwise keep Gibbs and all the heat will be on Adelaide for failing to land Gibbs once again.

Win/Win scenario for us.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Ryan Griffen disagrees.

As has been stated numerous times - Griffen was extremely unhappy with the coach at the time. Subsequent to him leaving the club sacked said coach. Absolutely no similarities to what is happening at Carlton.

 

[dazdoggy]

Great win yesterday. Had heard we were after May before the game (we have plenty of defenders so I didn't really think much of it). Was really surprised to see him shake hands with Charlie Curnow at the start of the game then also when there was a fight he went to get involved and thought twice about it.

He is a gun, would he be a good target for us to go after considering it's free agency costs us nothing.

 

[bluemahogany]

Great win yesterday. Had heard we were after May before the game (we have plenty of defenders so I didn't really think much of it). Was really surprised to see him shake hands with Charlie Curnow at the start of the game then also when there was a fight he went to get involved and thought twice about it.

He is a gun, would he be a good target for us to go after considering it's free agency costs us nothing.

He's not a Free Agent

 

[DangerousD]

Assuming the kelly/hopper rumours are true - we need currency (without selling multiple first round picks). The backlines is probably the only area where we have sufficient depth -> weltering/mcreadie/plowman/williamson/byrne/docherty with another preseason, ASOS/Rowe/white as mature bodies - all shown that they have the potential to fulfil the required roles with potentially jaksch/sheehan/glass-mcasker should they get the opportunity to show their wares before end of 2017.

For various reasons, none of the above players are tradable/likely to have currency - the only exception is jones.

Jones doesn't have currency. If you disagree that's fine. Take your trade hyperthetical to the main board and see what responses you get.

You can't trade crap and receive good, that's not how it works.