Resource 2017 AFL and AFLW Crowds and Ratings

[Hawkk]

exactly

In specific seasons where it suits Richmond's numbers

To be honest the only way you can really rank / compare drawing power and attendances is like for like comparisons (ie same opposition, same timeslots etc)

The reality is that the fixture is so comprised with stadium arrangements, marquee fixtures, timeslots and return fixtures anyway. It's pretty much preordained that the same clubs finish in the top 5 / 6 for home and away attendance year after year...

 

[threenewpadlocks]

"Home crowds only count"
Except for those darn member replacement games that give the same game access to the away team as if it was a home one. Let's conveniently forget about that.

 

[Fletched]

"Home crowds only count"
Except for those darn member replacement games that give the same game access to the away team as if it was a home one. Let's conveniently forget about that.

Not to mention that many supporters are not members of their club but have AFL and MCC memberships and so attend away games

 

[wagstaff]

MCG predicting 57k for Dons/Blues. At first glance that would seem a bit high as Carlton’s from has dropped right off in the past few weeks and they’re looking more than any other side they just want the season to be over. But the Dons fans have been turning out in such great numbers this year it’s entirely possible.

 

[NoobPie]

Not to mention that many supporters are not members of their club but have AFL and MCC memberships and so attend away games

Exactly. More than half of Collingwood members (including MCC and AFL) would have equal access to all melbourne games.

Collingwood has 14 games at the G this year and 3 at Etihad. 2 of the 3 at Etihad were home games that got ~36K (against the saints in round 4 after we'd just beaten Sydney the week before) and ~22K against the Eagles last week. I wouldn't have thought there would have been less Collingwood supporters at any of our MCG away games (and some times many more) than those two etihad games

 

[Underarm]

Not to mention that many supporters are not members of their club but have AFL and MCC memberships and so attend away games

Afl members are members of their own club. They are counted.

 

[NoobPie]

Afl members are members of their own club. They are counted.

Yeah, I suspect you have jumped in without actually bothering to establish the point he was making

 

[manicmagpie]

Thank you! This d*** measuring contest including away games is a joke. Each club gets 11 home games. That's how you measure a clubs attendance plus average. If a club chooses to sell games then so be it. That's there problem. What Gold Coast, Port, West Coast, North draw when playing your side shouldn't have any barring.

I disagree entirely. The numbers your team gets when playing each away means everything about how big a drawcard your team is. What you're suggesting in effect is that the opposition has no bearing on how large the crowd is.

AFL doesn't have away bays with capped numbers (Subiaco I think does but). You'll never know how many Richmond fans were at Gold Coast or Adelaide at the MCG.

That's right, we don't know the proportion of supporters at each game, something that is especially difficult when two Vic clubs play each other. Another reason why it is facile to ascribe every spectator to the home team alone and ignore all the away supporters, which is what you do if you only look at the home totals.

Home numbers only is a perfectly good way to compare non Vic teams. But for Vic teams home and away games in Melbourne have become virtually indistinguishable. Every game has an abundance of general admission tickets available. Over 40% of the MCG's capacity is taken up by the MCC and AFL member areas, who don't care at all about whose home game it is. And as pointed out above, we now even have the concept of replacement games which allow free entry to away members.

If you switch the 'home' and 'away' games for Collingwood against Essendon and Melbourne this year the overall crowds wouldn't change a bit, but our home total would suddenly jump 10%. By your criteria Collingwood would suddenly be a much bigger team this year when in reality nothing really changed at all. You can run the same argument for the Dreamtime game etc.

In specific seasons where it suits Richmond's numbers

To be honest the only way you can really rank / compare drawing power and attendances is like for like comparisons (ie same opposition, same timeslots etc)

The reality is that the fixture is so comprised with stadium arrangements, marquee fixtures, timeslots and return fixtures anyway. It's pretty much preordained that the same clubs finish in the top 5 / 6 for home and away attendance year after year...

Nail on head.

It strikes me that some Richmond fans don't want to consider away numbers because Richmond have been decidedly poor in this area for over 60 years. In fact they come in a long way behind Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton over that period and are only ahead of Hawthorn by the skin of their teeth. This holds true even when you only count years in which Richmond made the finals. They're 22% behind Collingwood and 10% behind Carlton and Essendon even in just their successful years and a frankly embarrassing 30% behind the Pies when you count every season. Let's also not forget that for half of those 65 years (and in most of the years that Richmond made the finals) the away fixtures were virtually identical for each club.

The difference has to be mainly a combination of two factors:

1. Richmond fans don't show up to away games in as large numbers as the other big clubs
2. Opposition supporters do not show up to home games against Richmond in as large numbers as they do for the other big clubs

Whatever % you apply to each factor, it means the same thing in the end for Richmond's drawing ability.

By way of illustration of all of this over long post (can you tell it's a slow work day?), here is the % effect that each team has on the average home game attendance for every other club:



In case it's not clear you read down your team's column to see how your team affects the average home attendance for the club listed on the left.

Figures are 2000 onwards.

You can see why a lot of clubs request home games against the likes of Collingwood, and also see how little difference any team makes to WC games. Will be interesting to see how that changes with the new stadium.

As ever there are going to be anomolies in that table (home games in Tassie, NT etc) but I'm not going to accept that the kind of numbers shown for sides like my own are down to pure chance and should be disregarded.

 

[Great8]

MCG predicting 57k for Dons/Blues. At first glance that would seem a bit high as Carlton’s from has dropped right off in the past few weeks and they’re looking more than any other side they just want the season to be over. But the Dons fans have been turning out in such great numbers this year it’s entirely possible.

Our home game at a venue our fans love at a great time slot. Reckon 55-60k is about right

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I disagree entirely. The numbers your team gets when playing each away means everything about how big a drawcard your team is. What you're suggesting in effect is that the opposition has no bearing on how large the crowd is.



That's right, we don't know the proportion of supporters at each game, something that is especially difficult when two Vic clubs play each other. Another reason why it is facile to ascribe every spectator to the home team alone and ignore all the away supporters, which is what you do if you only look at the home totals.

Home numbers only is a perfectly good way to compare non Vic teams. But for Vic teams home and away games in Melbourne have become virtually indistinguishable. Every game has an abundance of general admission tickets available. Over 40% of the MCG's capacity is taken up by the MCC and AFL member areas, who don't care at all about whose home game it is. And as pointed out above, we now even have the concept of replacement games which allow free entry to away members.

If you switch the 'home' and 'away' games for Collingwood against Essendon and Melbourne this year the overall crowds wouldn't change a bit, but our home total would suddenly jump 10%. By your criteria Collingwood would suddenly be a much bigger team this year when in reality nothing really changed at all. You can run the same argument for the Dreamtime game etc.



Nail on head.

It strikes me that some Richmond fans don't want to consider away numbers because Richmond have been decidedly poor in this area for over 60 years. In fact they come in a long way behind Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton over that period and are only ahead of Hawthorn by the skin of their teeth. This holds true even when you only count years in which Richmond made the finals. They're 22% behind Collingwood and 10% behind Carlton and Essendon even in just their successful years and a frankly embarrassing 30% behind the Pies when you count every season. Let's also not forget that for half of those 65 years (and in most of the years that Richmond made the finals) the away fixtures were virtually identical for each club.

The difference has to be mainly a combination of two factors:

1. Richmond fans don't show up to away games in as large numbers as the other big clubs
2. Opposition supporters do not show up to home games against Richmond in as large numbers as they do for the other big clubs

Whatever % you apply to each factor, it means the same thing in the end for Richmond's drawing ability.

By way of illustration of all of this over long post (can you tell it's a slow work day?), here is the % effect that each team has on the average home game attendance for every other club:

View attachment 398027

In case it's not clear you read down your team's column to see how your team affects the average home attendance for the club listed on the left.

Figures are 2000 onwards.

You can see why a lot of clubs request home games against the likes of Collingwood, and also see how little difference any team makes to WC games. Will be interesting to see how that changes with the new stadium.

As ever there are going to be anomolies in that table (home games in Tassie, NT etc) but I'm not going to accept that the kind of numbers shown for sides like my own are down to pure chance and should be disregarded.

Richmond being mid tier in mcc and afl probably hurts our away numbers.

 

[manicmagpie]

Richmond being mid tier in mcc and afl probably hurts our away numbers.

More of you guys should take it up if possible. After Collingwood you'd get more use out of it than anyone.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

More of you guys should take it up if possible. After Collingwood you'd get more use out of it than anyone.

Prob is the wait list. We have had a strong ga culture until recently, and these have a 10-20 year wait period

That being said, i agree - afl mbership is cheaper and provides far more than my 3121

 

[baaaall!]

Round 23 Richmond v St Kilda at the G should be huge, with the tiges playing off for a top 4 spot and potentially Riewoldt's farewell match.

 

[manicmagpie]

Round 23 Richmond v St Kilda at the G should be huge, with the tiges playing off for a top 4 spot and potentially Riewoldt's farewell match.

Will be interesting to see. The match itself doesn't look like the drawcard it was a few weeks ago due to the Saints' recent form, but that might ultimately end up in its favour as it should now be Riewoldt's last game.

 

[blaisee]

Round 23 Richmond v St Kilda at the G should be huge, with the tiges playing off for a top 4 spot and potentially Riewoldt's farewell match.

I predict 150,000 fans will attend the rich v hawks and the tigers v saints games in total

 

[Demon13304]

"Home crowds only count"
Except for those darn member replacement games that give the same game access to the away team as if it was a home one. Let's conveniently forget about that.

And for the clubs that play interstate home games significantly lower the home crowds.
In Melbourne's case, the 2 NT games lowers our home average from almost 42k to about 34k.

 

[Tassieboy]

MCG predicting 57k for Dons/Blues. At first glance that would seem a bit high as Carlton’s from has dropped right off in the past few weeks and they’re looking more than any other side they just want the season to be over. But the Dons fans have been turning out in such great numbers this year it’s entirely possible.

It seems very optimistic. 10 V 17. Carlton would be lucky to get 20k against an interstate team this week and I suspect 30k would be tops for Essendon. Historically games between the big 4 clubs in such a ladder position this late in the season don't get near 50k. But who knows. A similar game in 2007 drew 49k in Round 20. It's fair to say Essendon and Carlton is nowhere near as resilient crowd wise as Collingwood and Carlton.

Richmond and Hawthorn has reached an optimal point for a large crowd. I don't think it'd have drawn a bigger crowd at another point in the season.

 

[Hawkk]

I predict 150,000 fans will attend the rich v hawks and the tigers v saints games in total

I think that's a fair stretch. The Saints have only drawn 75k to two fixtures in their history (81386 and 80060 against Collingwood in 2010 and 1992). In fact the Saints have only drawn 6 games over 70k in their history (3 in the 90s, 2 in the 60s / 70s and 1 in 2010)

But with Riewoldt probably being the second greatest Saint behind Baldock who really knows?

 

[sverik25]

I think that's a fair stretch. The Saints have only drawn 75k to two fixtures in their history (81386 and 80060 against Collingwood in 2010 and 1992). In fact the Saints have only drawn 6 games over 70k in their history (3 in the 90s, 2 in the 60s / 70s and 1 in 2010)

But with Riewoldt probably being the second greatest Saint behind Baldock who really knows?

It's hard to tell because we don't play at the MCG very often, so don't get the opportunity to draw too many big crowds.

That said, 75,000 would take something pretty special. At this stage I would expect over 60,000 and see where it goes from there.

 

[Rouel_14]

It's hard to tell because we don't play at the MCG very often, so don't get the opportunity to draw too many big crowds.

That said, 75,000 would take something pretty special. At this stage I would expect over 60,000 and see where it goes from there.

It has a bit of a 2007 send of to Hird and Sheedy about it.. we saw how big that turn out was!

The Tigers and Saints have formed a great partnership with Maddie's Match in recent years so is it completely beyond the spectrum to consider offing saints members GA access to this game ?

The way I see it, it could possibly be the perfect storm. If a top 4 position is on the line that is as much of a draw card as any for tigers fans and you could get 45000 tigers there. If a position in the Top 8 is there for the Saints and the possible send off of one of the clubs greatest players you would get 30000 Saints there. If this much is at stake you can count on 5000 casual observers coming along and it's 80000


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[Rezza Tiger]

I think that's a fair stretch. The Saints have only drawn 75k to two fixtures in their history (81386 and 80060 against Collingwood in 2010 and 1992). In fact the Saints have only drawn 6 games over 70k in their history (3 in the 90s, 2 in the 60s / 70s and 1 in 2010)

But with Riewoldt probably being the second greatest Saint behind Baldock who really knows?

It has a bit of a 2007 send of to Hird and Sheedy about it.. we saw how big that turn out was!

The Tigers and Saints have formed a great partnership with Maddie's Match in recent years so is it completely beyond the spectrum to consider offing saints members GA access to this game ?

The way I see it, it could possibly be the perfect storm. If a top 4 position is on the line that is as much of a draw card as any for tigers fans and you could get 45000 tigers there. If a position in the Top 8 is there for the Saints and the possible send off of one of the clubs greatest players you would get 30000 Saints there. If this much is at stake you can count on 5000 casual observers coming along and it's 80000


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Final round game attendances can go through the roof if finals spots are up for grabs. Remember 1998? Personally I hope the Saints can give it a real shake and be in the mix come R23.

I wonder if Hodge out has taken some gloss off Sunday's game? Still expecting over 70K for mine.

 

[Hawkk]

Final round game attendances can go through the roof if finals spots are up for grabs. Remember 1998? Personally I hope the Saints can give it a real shake and be in the mix come R23.

I wonder if Hodge out has taken some gloss off Sunday's game? Still expecting over 70K for mine.

Perhaps. But Melbourne by and large have a proven record of much larger attendances at the MCG.

I guess we will wait and see

 

[La Vache]

Round 23 Friday night. Hawks v Dogs, docklands and a hawks home game.

Hawthorn will either be playing for a finals berth or seeing off Hodge, or both. It is also very likely to be a must win for the Dogs too.

The fact it will be played before any others adds a layer of high uncertainty on top of it all.

Has the potential to break 50k I think. Unlike many I really like docklands when it is rammed.

 

[MattF185]

Round 23 Friday night. Hawks v Dogs, docklands and a hawks home game.

Hawthorn will either be playing for a finals berth or seeing off Hodge, or both. It is also very likely to be a must win for the Dogs too.

The fact it will be played before any others adds a layer of high uncertainty on top of it all.

Has the potential to break 50k I think. Unlike many I really like docklands when it is rammed.

No way, Jose. 50k is way too far a stretch. Hawthorn, just like most MCG tenanted teams, are notorious for having poor attendances at Docklands. Western Bulldogs aren't a big drawing team, either, especially when it comes to their away matches. Can't see it being over 40,000, whether or not hawthorn and or the Western Bulldogs are playing for a finals berth.

 

[blaisee]

No way, Jose. 50k is way too far a stretch. Hawthorn, just like most MCG tenanted teams, are notorious for having poor attendances at Docklands. Western Bulldogs aren't a big drawing team, either, especially when it comes to their away matches. Can't see it being over 40,000, whether or not hawthorn and or the Western Bulldogs are playing for a finals berth.

agree

will struggle to get 40k, especially if no finals chance