Bluemour Discussion Thread IV

[ferrisb]

Pretty sorry looking bunch to be honest. Coniglio, Naitanui and Kelly the only ones who have shown enough to be worth chasing.

Reckon Bennell would have shown enough if he wasn't 'chasing'....

 

[ferrisb]

Still haunts us

Not so sure Arr0w.

Don't think the Judd trade is what hurt.... I think it's the recruiting and list management we did around Judd that was the bigger problem...

 

[katmanblue]

Not so sure Arr0w.

Don't think the Judd trade is what hurt.... I think it's the recruiting and list management we did around Judd that was the bigger problem...

Started with the mark of Kane

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[Blue_Fusion]

Not a good example, BF.

WCE didn't get pick #1, but they got pick 3, Kennedy (former pick #4) AND pick 20.

That's a hefty price and a helluva lot more than pick 1.

That's not the point I made. I didn't at any stage say they didn't get a fair deal.

What I did say is they demanded pick 1 even AFTER we offered 3+20+JK

So the point is, they didn't get what they wanted, not that they didn't get a fair deal. Big difference.

 

[Wickzki]

Started with the mark of Kane

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Started with Yarran. Was a boom or bust draft pick and we knew it at the time. It's not hindsight thinking when the next five picks are:

• Daniel Rich -- AFLPA Best First Year Player, AFL Rising Star,
• Ty Vickery -- bit of a spud but 158 goals
• Jack Ziebell -- North Melbourne captain
• Phil Davis -- GWS captain
• Steele Sidebottom -- premiership player, Pies co-captain, ANZAC Medalist

As disappointing as Vickery has been the past couple of years he's still had a better career than Yarran. Rich was the rookie of the year of his class and the other three have been deeply involved in their club's leadership including two captains and a vice captain. Yes, Adelaide lost Davis to the big $$$ GWS offered but he was well on his way to being a fantastic cornerstone defender in Adelaide.

Kane was almost as bad but I'd argue Yarran's was worse. Imagine any of those (well perhaps not Vickery) five in our lineup. In Kane's year it was Daniel Talia (who the Carlton forums all wanted), Lewis Jetta, Jasper McMillan-Pettard and Dan Menzel were four of the five next players drafted.

 

[StandByyourMan]

Already posted it

I was being facetious....

 

[Arr0w]

I was being facetious....

I know

 

[BigFrizz36]

Still haunts us

only the kennedy part. incredibly the judd trade shows us as a great recruiters and wce as terrible. associated with that trade we
had taken kennedy with 4 and armfield with 46 which were both wins. west coast took masten (vanilla) with 3 and notte (not good - injured) with 20.
we stubbornly held pick 1 which we used on kreuzer.
everyone says that we could have shifted fevola instead of kennedy but my memory was that was never an option and west coast had no interest in fev. they did have some interest in paul bower but we may have had to give them pick 1 had we have gone down that path. there were many tipping paul bower to be a.a. chb at that time.

 

[therubbernub]

Well you asked for an example involving a high class player. Now that I've provided it, you have nothing to say so that's why you need to go off on a tangent and try to argue different points.

WCE demanded pick #1 and didn't get it. Just like GWS will demand another 1st rounder but won't get it unless they throw Hopper into the deal. In that case, I'd be happy to give up 2+10 for Kelly + Hopper, would be a great deal for us.

To be fair the entire landscape has changed. IMO the judd example is not relevant. Back then the players didnt have all the power - now they do

 

[GapInIkonPark]

only the kennedy part. incredibly the judd trade shows us as a great recruiters and wce as terrible. associated with that trade we
had taken kennedy with 4 and armfield with 46 which were both wins. west coast took masten (vanilla) with 3 and notte (not good - injured) with 20.
we stubbornly held pick 1 which we used on kreuzer.
everyone says that we could have shifted fevola instead of kennedy but my memory was that was never an option and west coast had no interest in fev. they did have some interest in paul bower but we may have had to give them pick 1 had we have gone down that path. there were many tipping paul bower to be a.a. chb at that time.

I thought West Coast first asked for Fevola and he said no so it then became Kennedy. From memory West Coast was keen on Fevola a year or two before.

However, the article below says West Coast was not interested:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...7/news-story/b1520b8d4531ebce57a5541eaf4ebd07

Kennedy was not jumping at the chance to return to Perth. He was happy in Melbourne and playing for Carlton. He took a day or so to think about it before agreeing to move.

 

[therubbernub]

I hope we finish last so we can get Rayner even with the endurance concerns he has star written all over him. I recon we can get kelly with gibbs picks or future picks really keen to get saad to

Agree rayner has that animal aggression to get the pill. No way he will be a dud. No way he wont develop a tanks- he is simply too aggressive toward getting the pill.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

To be fair the entire landscape has changed. IMO the judd example is not relevant. Back then the players didnt have all the power - now they do

Again, the point is being missed. How hard is it to understand that the entire point is to prove clubs don't always get what they demand in trades? What does that have to do with player power? Is Kelly going to tell us "hey you guys need to give up more than pick 2 or I'll nominate a different club".

 

[therubbernub]

What does that have to do with player power?

I think you have missed my point. The power IS with the players now - not the clubs. Therefore the clubs dont have the leverage anymore to force the other club to pay a premium (like the judd trade) . So we are arguing the saem thing (i think?)

 

[CFC_#17]

I thought West Coast first asked for Fevola and he said no so it then became Kennedy. From memory West Coast was keen on Fevola a year or two before.

However, the article below says West Coast was not interested:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...7/news-story/b1520b8d4531ebce57a5541eaf4ebd07

Kennedy was not jumping at the chance to return to Perth. He was happy in Melbourne and playing for Carlton. He took a day or so to think about it before agreeing to move.

I thought it was Pick 1(Kreuzer) or Kennedy

 

[Robertio]

Haha. Jarrod Waite maybe... Except he had a heart the size of a pea

Still has.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

If Kelly does nominate us, and that's far from certain, can we please not mention the PSD during any discussion with GWS supporters?

It's embarrassing when its brought up every single time a top player comes up for trade. The PSD is irrelevant and has been for many years.

The PSD has been irrelevant for years, but I can't think of an occasion where a player has nominated to be traded to a club that holds pick 1 in the PSD?

If this situation was to eventuate the PSD would soon become relevant again.

I'm not suggesting that a deal would not still get brokered, but if the negotiating clubs were at an impasse as the trade window was closing the club that held pick 1 would be extremely comfortable holding their ground on their current offer forcing the other club to deal.

If Carlton held the first pick in the PSD when the Judd deal was in progress I'm pretty confident Josh Kennedy would still be wearing Navy Blue and pick 3 & 20 alone would have got the deal done.

Similarly if Carlton ends up holding pick 1 in the PSD this year and Kelly nominates Carlton, I suspect our first pick will be off the table and SOS would get a deal done for Gibbs pick/picks + Casboult compo.


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[Shambolic]

I thought West Coast first asked for Fevola and he said no so it then became Kennedy. From memory West Coast was keen on Fevola a year or two before.

However, the article below says West Coast was not interested:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...7/news-story/b1520b8d4531ebce57a5541eaf4ebd07

Kennedy was not jumping at the chance to return to Perth. He was happy in Melbourne and playing for Carlton. He took a day or so to think about it before agreeing to move.

I've heard a number of carlton fans suggest that but i don't think it was raised that year at all. Definitely the year before.

I think it is hindsight wishful thinking.

 

[ferrisb]

I hope we don't get Kelly.

I don't think I could handle yet another 10 years of Judd style 'was the trade worth it?' discussion...

 

[HARKER]

I hope we don't get Kelly.

I don't think I could handle yet another 10 years of Judd style 'was the trade worth it?' discussion...

Wouldn't be anything like that ferris.
More in line with Dion Prestia.....but likely for a much better reason.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I think you have missed my point. The power IS with the players now - not the clubs. Therefore the clubs dont have the leverage anymore to force the other club to pay a premium (like the judd trade) . So we are arguing the saem thing (i think?)

I think we are, but then why start your sentence with "to be fair"? It gave me the impression that you disagreed. It was merely an example to show that clubs don't always get their way in trades especially when elite players are involved.

 

[thylacine60]

Started with the mark of Kane

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ending with the curse of KJ......

 

[Keyza]

Players have to agree to be traded - even if they are out of contract.

So if they really want to go to a team that has an early pick in the PSD - it's not hard to manipulate the outcome.

I know.

 

[Keyza]

The PSD has been irrelevant for years, but I can't think of an occasion where a player has nominated to be traded to a club that holds pick 1 in the PSD?

If this situation was to eventuate the PSD would soon become relevant again.

I'm not suggesting that a deal would not still get brokered, but if the negotiating clubs were at an impasse as the trade window was closing the club that held pick 1 would be extremely comfortable holding their ground on their current offer forcing the other club to deal.

If Carlton held the first pick in the PSD when the Judd deal was in progress I'm pretty confident Josh Kennedy would still be wearing Navy Blue and pick 3 & 20 alone would have got the deal done.

Similarly if Carlton ends up holding pick 1 in the PSD this year and Kelly nominates Carlton, I suspect our first pick will be off the table and SOS would get a deal done for Gibbs pick/picks + Casboult compo.


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James Stewart last year nominated Essendon. Trade was done despite them having the first PSD pick.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

James Stewart last year nominated Essendon. Trade was done despite them having the first PSD pick.

Which was essentially a gift because GWS didn't use the pick 77 that they received.


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[mediumsizered]

The PSD has been irrelevant for years, but I can't think of an occasion where a player has nominated to be traded to a club that holds pick 1 in the PSD?

If this situation was to eventuate the PSD would soon become relevant again.

I'm not suggesting that a deal would not still get brokered, but if the negotiating clubs were at an impasse as the trade window was closing the club that held pick 1 would be extremely comfortable holding their ground on their current offer forcing the other club to deal.

If Carlton held the first pick in the PSD when the Judd deal was in progress I'm pretty confident Josh Kennedy would still be wearing Navy Blue and pick 3 & 20 alone would have got the deal done.

Similarly if Carlton ends up holding pick 1 in the PSD this year and Kelly nominates Carlton, I suspect our first pick will be off the table and SOS would get a deal done for Gibbs pick/picks + Casboult compo.


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I seem to remember one of the reasons Judd chose us was because he wanted to make sure the Eagles got a fair deal in return & he could see that we were the club most likely to be able to offer the fairest deal for the Eagles.