Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Jabba73]

On your last line, SOS seems more than happy to let him go for anything other than a tad over minimum chips. As he was last year also.

Levi shopped himself around last year too. Hawthorn were desperate for a Forward/Ruck..............................

..........they preferred Tyrone Vickery.

That's something to chew on.

For whatever Levi does individually, which isn't much...he is twice as detrimental in a team sense. He simply does not work with others. Never has, never will.

Or perhaps both were happy to take a one year deal to give him the chance to earn a decent contract if he continued his progress as the main forward working with the kids. Who knows if he knocked back a deal from the Hawks to stay with us and they had to turn to Vickery as plan B? Might have backed himself in so he could stay a one club player.

He hasn't left the club yet and his manager would be crazy stupid not to have tested the waters in case there is a massive deal on offer somewhere else, doesn't mean we haven't or wont make him a reasonable offer.

Levi does much more good than harm, people are only focused on the goal kicking when he misses. Been bloody accurate this year as well as playing as the second ruckman. No other player on our list is capable of doing that.

All very well to want to get rid of him, no one has a credible alternative.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

Occasionally Trigg throws a live mouse into the viper pit to see if any of the media bite.

The other day at a function at Ikon Park, Trigg said we would only trade this years 1st for good young talent(wink, wink Kelly) or go to the draft with that pick

 

[TerryWallet]

Or perhaps both were happy to take a one year deal to give him the chance to earn a decent contract if he continued his progress as the main forward working with the kids. Who knows if he knocked back a deal from the Hawks to stay with us and they had to turn to Vickery as plan B? Might have backed himself in so he could stay a one club player.

He hasn't left the club yet and his manager would be crazy stupid not to have tested the waters in case there is a massive deal on offer somewhere else, doesn't mean we haven't or wont make him a reasonable offer.

Levi does much more good than harm, people are only focused on the goal kicking when he misses. Been bloody accurate this year as well as playing as the second ruckman. No other player on our list is capable of doing that.

All very well to want to get rid of him, no one has a credible alternative.

I'm not focused on his kicking. It actually annoys the hell out of me that most people ARE focused on his kicking and marking only.

I've long been focused on his overall game.

He doesn't have any forward craft or ability to work with and for others.

 

[HyphensBack]

Then you've just validated my point haven't you???


Good to see you kicking around HyphensBack.

• Re Weitering: I'm not for trading out our elite drafted talent. You need to build upon it. SOS needs to back himself that he can draft the next Dylan Shiel or Josh Kelly.
• Re Jones: Not sure Jones is in the same postcode as Shiel or Kelly tbh, but your suggestion is not as left-field as many seem to think if you're prepared to change it up. Jones for Hopper mightn't be far off the mark though and might just work out for a number of reasons. GWS could really use a quality KPD, he'd also fit into their salary cap and it might just free up enough funds for them to keep Kelly. I must admit that I'm extremely reluctant to trade Jones. He's extremely durable, loves the club and probably only costing us around $250k-$300k/yr + bonuses. To put it in context, what would Lever cost us to do the exact same job??? For the next 2 years Jones is the type of bargain we're unlikely to see again. Aaarrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh!!! Let me think. ASOS is good but injury prone, may not see Rowe again, JGM hasn't really progressed and while I can draft say a Darren Petty, I'd probably need to retain Jaksch for another year as depth if I did this deal. Dunno, I just dunno. I suspect Hopper is worth a little more, but the unique advantages Jones provides probably offsets that and if anyone could sell that deal SOS & Brodie could

Jones isn't in the same post code but a player they may need, lots of others have commented GWS may require a quality player and not just picks if trading with them - in my analysis I would like to keep Jones but what if it meant we only have to give up 1 first round draft pick and Jones versus 2 first round draft picks to gain Shiel or Kelly and Hopper. I think I would prefer the quality midfielder as I feel we have lots of KPDs
Nb: Personally I think Shiel is elite and Kelly is A grade

 

[Soapy V]

Still don't have anyone on the list capable of playing that role.

Unless we want to go back to the good old days of playing two ruckmen that cannot play as a forward, it is better to hang on to Casboult for at least the next two years, until McKay is ready to play 23 games while getting smashed week in, week out.

Asking McKay or Curnow to do that job next season will wreck their development and they could both be very special players in our next premiership tilt.

People in here keep forgetting Casboult was pick 44 in the rookie draft, he has come a long way and is about to hit his physical peak. He is 12 goals ahead of the next player in the AFL who has more than 100 hit outs for the season. Puts him in the top echelon of forward/rucks in the league. Also allows Kreuzer to play his preferred position.

If we didn't have a Casboult, we would be begging for SOS to find us one. Time to ease up people, he is what he is.

Maybe but if we can get pick 18 in the middle of rebuild it's a no brainer. Next 2 years are not really about wins and we can play Phillips or Rowe whilst McKay Silvagni Kerr develops. I don't agree about it wrecking their development. Daniher & Wright played a lot of ruck early and it actually helped their development. Boyd's best footy has been as a young ruckman. With all our key defenders I can see Weitering Marchbank Macreadie & Jones all having a go up forward. SOS will bring in a few other options as well.

There is a reason we aren't offering much and or budging on that offer

 

[Jabba73]

I'm not focused on his kicking. It actually annoys the hell out of me that most people ARE focused on his kicking and marking only.

I've long been focused on his overall game.

He doesn't have any forward craft or ability to work with and for others.

Trouble is, he has never had anyone to work with in the first 8 years at the club. Takes time to unlearn a career of slow ball movement, stand there so we can kick it on your head type football. His development is a product of poor coaching, a threadbare midfield and the inability of the club to draft another key forward in a decade of trying.

Get a midfield that can hit the side of a house from more than 15 metres away and all our forwards might surprise everyone with their sudden improvement.

 

[HARKER]

Then you've just validated my point haven't you???


Good to see you kicking around HyphensBack.

• Re Weitering: I'm not for trading out our elite drafted talent. You need to build upon it. SOS needs to back himself that he can draft the next Dylan Shiel or Josh Kelly.
• Re Jones: Not sure Jones is in the same postcode as Shiel or Kelly tbh, but your suggestion is not as left-field as many seem to think if you're prepared to change it up. Jones for Hopper mightn't be far off the mark though and might just work out for a number of reasons. GWS could really use a quality KPD, he'd also fit into their salary cap and it might just free up enough funds for them to keep Kelly. I must admit that I'm extremely reluctant to trade Jones. He's extremely durable, loves the club and probably only costing us around $250k-$300k/yr + bonuses. To put it in context, what would Lever cost us to do the exact same job??? For the next 2 years Jones is the type of bargain we're unlikely to see again. Aaarrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh!!! Let me think. ASOS is good but injury prone, may not see Rowe again, JGM hasn't really progressed and while I can draft say a Darren Petty, I'd probably need to retain Jaksch for another year as depth if I did this deal. Dunno, I just dunno. I suspect Hopper is worth a little more, but the unique advantages Jones provides probably offsets that and if anyone could sell that deal SOS & Brodie could.
• Arr0w, HARKER and Jimmae do you think a Jones for Hopper deal is both plausible & feasible??? What massaging, if any, would it need to work???

I feel that GWS could do with Jones more than we could do with Hopper..... Crazy

 

[Jabba73]

Maybe but if we can get pick 18 in the middle of rebuild it's a no brainer. Next 2 years are not really about wins and we can play Phillips or Rowe whilst McKay Silvagni Kerr develops. I don't agree about it wrecking their development. Daniher & Wright played a lot of ruck early and it actually helped their development. Boyd's best footy has been as a young ruckman. With all our key defenders I can see Weitering Marchbank Macreadie & Jones all having a go up forward. SOS will bring in a few other options as well.

Would love to see Marchbank forward, great reader of the play. Nono of the options you have suggested are going to have the same impact for about 2 years. Guess it comes down to how patient the coaches are willing to be.

Phillips not a permanent forward/ruck. Rowe unproven in the position, was moved into defence instead of playing forward, despite our lack of options. Both are worse stop gap measures imo.

 

[Rarely Rong]

I feel that GWS could do with Jones more than we could do with Hopper..... Crazy

There was more chance of a D. Trump and K. Jong-un lunch than the above sentence at the start of the year....such a good story!

 

[Iamcarlton]

Trouble is, he has never had anyone to work with in the first 8 years at the club. Takes time to unlearn a career of slow ball movement, stand there so we can kick it on your head type football. His development is a product of poor coaching, a threadbare midfield and the inability of the club to draft another key forward in a decade of trying.

Get a midfield that can hit the side of a house from more than 15 metres away and all our forwards might surprise everyone with their sudden improvement.

I agree in a decent Carlton side with a strong midfield Casboult Curnow and Mckay together would cause massive headaches for the opposition imo . Its not our talls that are a problem its once it hits the deck we dont have enough crumbing ability or the ability to lock the ball in our half of the ground for periods of time .

 

[Soapy V]

Would love to see Marchbank forward, great reader of the play. Nono of the options you have suggested are going to have the same impact for about 2 years. Guess it comes down to how patient the coaches are willing to be.

Phillips not a permanent forward/ruck. Rowe unproven in the position, was moved into defence instead of playing forward, despite our lack of options. Both are worse stop gap measures imo.

at the moment it doesn't matter and it wouldn't surprise me to see McKay play a lot of second ruck next year. Gets them involved a lot more and IMO is great for development. Next year will be his third in the system and he is a big unit. Rowe & Phillips are handy back ups.

As I said getting pick 18 for a guy we got as a rookie and is limited is a no brainer. Someone will always fill the role.

 

[LanceRomance]

I feel that GWS could do with Jones more than we could do with Hopper..... Crazy

Would be a bizarre feeling if we traded Jones.

 

[Jabba73]

I agree in a decent Carlton side with a strong midfield Casboult Curnow and Mckay together would cause massive headaches for the opposition imo . Its not our talls that are a problem its once it hits the deck we dont have enough crumbing ability or the ability to lock the ball in our half of the ground for periods of time .

Hoping we are chasing two quality mids, a quality small forward and quality small defender.

 

[Soapy V]

Hoping we are chasing two quality mids, a quality small forward and quality small defender.

Hopper Balic Raynor plus a fit Pickett & LeBois will make a difference. Byrne into defence and I reckon Lamb would be a good small defender. Our kids will step up so if we can add more gun runners to our list we will be in a good space

 

[Arr0w]

Personally, I think Casboult is a strong chance to re-sign, 2 years plus a 3rd with triggers

 

[I AM CARLTON]

I feel that GWS could do with Jones more than we could do with Hopper..... Crazy

Really i think Davis, Corr, Tomlinson and Haynes are doing a very good job in GWS backline i dont think they would even consider Jones. We are desperate for Mids!!

 

[Soapy V]

Personally, I think Casboult is a strong chance to re-sign, 2 years plus a 3rd with triggers

SOS won't do triggers. Apparently they offered a 2 year deal at base. Take it or leave it. Just smells like what SOS did with Tuohy last year

 

[Teagueeee15]

Still don't have anyone on the list capable of playing that role.

Unless we want to go back to the good old days of playing two ruckmen that cannot play as a forward, it is better to hang on to Casboult for at least the next two years, until McKay is ready to play 23 games while getting smashed week in, week out.

Asking McKay or Curnow to do that job next season will wreck their development and they could both be very special players in our next premiership tilt.

People in here keep forgetting Casboult was pick 44 in the rookie draft, he has come a long way and is about to hit his physical peak. He is 12 goals ahead of the next player in the AFL who has more than 100 hit outs for the season. Puts him in the top echelon of forward/rucks in the league. Also allows Kreuzer to play his preferred position.

If we didn't have a Casboult, we would be begging for SOS to find us one. Time to ease up people, he is what he is.

I share your concerns. I remember Barass posting that we were interested in Jack Redpath, so if Casboult leaves, Redpath may be the contingency plan to take the load off Curnow and McKay. Another reasonable alternative would be taking Jaksch out of the naughty corner and seeing if he's got it.

 

[Rarely Rong]

Pickett (Dalhause) McKay (Daniher) SOS (Bruest)

SPS (Cyril) Charlie (Buddy) T. Greene

I think I'd give pk 1-2 for T. Greene as much as I would Kelly. Would GWS accept?

Unsure if SOS is Bruest like but that forward line at peak will be a nightmare to match up on.

 

[ShanDog]

Personally, I think Casboult is a strong chance to re-sign, 2 years plus a 3rd with triggers

Wait....

or

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Really i think Davis, Corr, Tomlinson and Haynes are doing a very good job in GWS backline i dont think they would even consider Jones. We are desperate for Mids!!

Looks like they could do with Jones tonight.

 

[Kramer1]

So many posters have become so incredibly insightful about Casboult's game since he started looking at his options.

 

[StandByyourMan]

There was more chance of a D. Trump and K. Jong-un lunch than the above sentence at the start of the year....such a good story!

And there's no way I'm ruling out that lunch either at this stage either..

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Looks like they could do with Jones tonight.

Really Redpath and Cloke only have 2 between them hardly dominating. Still dont think GWS are in the market for a key defender.

 

[HARKER]

Really Redpath and Cloke only have 2 between them hardly dominating. Still dont think GWS are in the market for a key defender.

I think they need a destroyer of gorillas more than any other player.
May not show up tonight, but I think it may when it matters.

They could blink and not miss Hopper, but Jones could help them enormously.