Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[Cattery]

Menzel could not possibly be classified as a marking forward.

If it was bad to have Menzel in the forward line because he was a "marking forward", why the hell did Taylor spend any time up forward at all?

Most of Menzel's goals are opportunistic, skill, quick minded stuff. Don't know what he is talking about. Not having Menzel was shooting ourselves in the foot.

Spot on, unfathomable comments from Scott ( is Chad Wingard a marking forward just because he takes the occasional speccy) both are fantastic opportunists who can create goals out of nothing.

And why would we be unbalanced last night with Menzel playing yet not last week, or for most of the year for that matter, or next week when he gets a recall.

The weather turned out better then we expected I think he said as well, well in that case how about making a late change.

Greatest piece of arse covering I've ever heard, though I guess trying to defend the indefensible is pretty bloody hard.

 

[Sticksman]

I see this week’s final against Sydney is Game One of a new era for the GFC.


The previous era is bookended by the massive 157 point win over Richmond in 2007 and the 51 point loss to Richmond last week. It is not the time to bottom out (there’s never a time to intentionally do that IMO) but it is a time for serious reflection.


If I remember correctly I voted here to hold off reappointing CS until season’s yet and I have certainly not supported the pitchforks and torches crowd demanding that the club sack him.


I am gathering my thoughts on what can be done to maximise our chances of landing another flag or two in the next few years. The main areas of influence that can drive change on the ground are the player list and game plan.


The list we are managing pretty well although team balance is not being managed as well as it could be. The game plan is in serious need of overhaul as the weaknesses are on show and whatever changes are made it is not fixing the problem.


In relation to the coach there are only two options when it’s all boiled down; he either remains or he leaves. I’m interested in exploring the ‘he remains’ option ATM as the alternative can be addressed later and would derail the discussion if the two camps are waging war on each other.


If CS remains I’d suggest something radical. CS is required to hand over coaching duties to another experienced operator so that they each work part time. The ‘other’ coach can take over mid season to allow CS a brea to refresh. The other coach could get us through the period of the bye and be involved throughout the season in the box.


We’ve actually seen this at other clubs although it’s through necessity with the regular coach being unavailable for whatever reason. We see it with players all of the time. The club calls it ‘rested’ or ‘managed’. I’m suggesting that it be an event that is planned for maybe two or three times in a year and maybe for two or three games at a stretch.


Any thoughts on this and/or other ideas to shake it up?


Please, at this stage leave out the sack the coach option.


BTW I’m aware that CS probably wouldn’t be agreeable to this idea. I’m simply looking at ideas.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I see this week’s final against Sydney is Game One of a new era for the GFC.


The previous era is bookended by the massive 157 point win over Richmond in 2007 and the 51 point loss to Richmond last week. It is not the time to bottom out (there’s never a time to intentionally do that IMO) but it is a time for serious reflection.


If I remember correctly I voted here to hold off reappointing CS until season’s yet and I have certainly not supported the pitchforks and torches crowd demanding that the club sack him.


I am gathering my thoughts on what can be done to maximise our chances of landing another flag or two in the next few years. The main areas of influence that can drive change on the ground are the player list and game plan.


The list we are managing pretty well although team balance is not being managed as well as it could be. The game plan is in serious need of overhaul as the weaknesses are on show and whatever changes are made it is not fixing the problem.


In relation to the coach there are only two options when it’s all boiled down; he either remains or he leaves. I’m interested in exploring the ‘he remains’ option ATM as the alternative can be addressed later and would derail the discussion if the two camps are waging war on each other.


If CS remains I’d suggest something radical. CS is required to hand over coaching duties to another experienced operator so that they each work part time. The ‘other’ coach can take over mid season to allow CS a brea to refresh. The other coach could get us through the period of the bye and be involved throughout the season in the box.


We’ve actually seen this at other clubs although it’s through necessity with the regular coach being unavailable for whatever reason. We see it with players all of the time. The club calls it ‘rested’ or ‘managed’. I’m suggesting that it be an event that is planned for maybe two or three times in a year and maybe for two or three games at a stretch.


Any thoughts on this and/or other ideas to shake it up?


Please, at this stage leave out the sack the coach option.


BTW I’m aware that CS probably wouldn’t be agreeable to this idea. I’m simply looking at ideas.

I think list wise (and I know it's been said repeatedly) our 2nd tier of on ballers just can't and won't ever cut it.
I certainly know that not every player needs to be a star but I think if Murdoch is safely inside your best 22 at any stage you're in trouble.
The trade value of Guthrie and Blitz needs to be seriously looked at. We can't have this incestuous nature at the club that cause the old man is matey at the club we don't do what's best for the club.
We need 2 more solid and consistent players in that mid tier and from now on selection needs to be more merit based.
Coaching wise we are a bit hamstrung cause of the 3 year contract (unless there a clauses we are unaware of)
Same goes with the matey mate mates. Enough of the former team mates, colleagues and ex players.
Shocking's replacement should not be the guy who's in the front running because he's good friends with the Scott brothers.
We need at least one assistant who is older and more experienced than CS who's opinions must be listened too.
Accountability wise I think it's a must CS does things like attend player exit interviews and make the time to speak to young players etc.
I believe we also need a new forward and midfield coach and at least a part time ruck coach as in more than once a month.
Obviously I have no idea about the inner workings of the club but there just my ideas from what I've seen and heard from people.

 

[kickazz]

Just let the players play.

A couple of times this year we just played more instinctively for the ball and the man, less worried about the zone.

They say the time a punter actually loses money is when their horse wins, because the bookie's odds are always worse than the actual chances of a horse winning.

I see it the same with the cats. The actual worst part of our game (and where most of our losses are lost) is when we have the ball in our hands. We get poor value for when we are actually on top. We are static, there is no run, no risk taking, no giving the opposition something to worry about.

I think we play better at KP because we DO attack more and take risks, probably because we think it's easier to defend if we do **** it up.

Our defence was very leaky for a year or two there, but the pendulum has swung back too far the other way.

A side that can be dominated but put on 5 goals in 20 minutes will always be more potent than a defensive one.

 

[ATSAM]

What is most worrying about Scott and his team is that they learn nothing. So without Selwood we have won there games with Menegola and Duncan stepping up. So we bring in an underdone Selwood and put and leave him in the midfield. Menegola and Duncan go back in their 'Captain is here' shell and Selwood has an ordinary as to be expected and we wonder why things went wrong.
Seemingly no analysis of what worked against for example GWS and lets build on that.
And of course the mystery of Menzel which the club with its usual communication efforts tells us nothing.

 

[kickazz]

What is most worrying about Scott and his team is that they learn nothing. So without Selwood we have won there games with Menegola and Duncan stepping up. So we bring in an underdone Selwood and put and leave him in the midfield. Menegola and Duncan go back in their 'Captain is here' shell and Selwood has an ordinary as to be expected and we wonder why things went wrong.
Seemingly no analysis of what worked against for example GWS and lets build on that.
And of course the mystery of Menzel which the club with its usual communication efforts tells us nothing.

Yeah I couldn't help but think the obvious move would be to put Selwood forward for a bit.

 

[calder_daddy]

This is a genuine question I would like answered if anyone can give me a valid reason for it.

Why do we insist on playing our newly developed and drafted kids in the forward line as they develop into midfielders.
Parfitt, Lang, Cockatoo, Parsons.

I watch other teams and most of them would play these smalls in a BP or HBF as they're developing into the midfield role.
One thing I do understand is our back line is stacked but why not try it here or there.
Haven't seen it been done with any of those 4 players mentioned and I wish they had

Parfitt and Lang are to 2 I would love to see play some footy back there.
Both small, quick, evasive and good tackling players who could run off and use there good skills to better use

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

I think we need to do a review from the top down. It helped Hardwick out coach Scott and Hardwick was often joked about as one of the worst coaches in the league just 12 months ago.

If the club is still so insistent on Scott, then clean out the shit under him and get some new voices in. Pay up some $$$ and get some experience under him like an ex- head coach.

Geelong needs to stop accepting top 4 in H&A as a benchmark. Get some answers and change things up. Turn us back into a bonafide contender rather than making up numbers. Top 4 is not worth it if we're the laughing stock of the finals teams.

 

[Partridge]

There's only 2 players on our list that play better at the business end of the season, Joel Selwood and Zach Touhy, the rest are well down on everything come finals.

I've got to disagree sorry, how do you see Tuohy playing better? Thought he was ordinary to say the least on Friday night. And Selwood was awful.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

I don't know how anyone can seriously compare our list now with our list 2007-11.

We have two brilliant midfielders and one excellent one. A few others run hot and cold.

We have one key forward who still lacks confidence after all these years and an exciting mid-size forward who they chose not to play because he lacks defensive abilities.

Our defence is generally fine but has ageing champions and young players still learning the game.

Doesn't excuse Scott from his mistakes, but gee, it's not as if we have a team of superstars.

The competition is comparatively much weaker than 07-11. Geelong made top 2 again. In the context of this season, that's what should set our expectations about what the team should be able to achieve, as should the constant trading to build a premiership team. I don't think that Geelong's best 22 looks much worse than Richmond's; I think Richmond just has a better system and were able to handle pressure better than Geelong. That was his ninth final and seventh loss since 2011. It's not good enough. He's wasted so many opportunities.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

I've got to disagree sorry, how do you see Tuohy playing better? Thought he was ordinary to say the least on Friday night. And Selwood was awful.

There's a statistic deferential that i saw for our players from 2012-2017 for the H&A season and then in finals, Tuohy and Selwood were the only ones with /+, the rest were in the negatives.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Does nothing to change the fact that his coaching records in finals since 2011 (when Mickey Mouse could have coached the team to the flag) is SHIZEN (and probably about to get worse as Sydney rips us a new one next week...) Can't win flags (the ultimate point of good H & A performance) with piss-poor finals performances. That is the coaching record that REALLY counts!! Do you think people are going to be talking about H & A coaching records that DON'T result in decent finals performances? Who f'in cares?

I hear Mickey Mouse is available if needed

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Scotty has his faults, no doubt, but he's not the problem with the team, it's the list. It's a group of players who consistently go missing in the games that count. That's what's letting the side down. These players need to be moved on to other clubs while they still have some value. It's time to rebuild the list. It might just require some savvy trading to get some of these players out of the club, I'm not talking about a full blown rebuild here. But this list, as it stands now, will never win a flag. Not even Clarko could do any better with this list.

 

[cynical]

This is a genuine question I would like answered if anyone can give me a valid reason for it.

Why do we insist on playing our newly developed and drafted kids in the forward line as they develop into midfielders.
Parfitt, Lang, Cockatoo, Parsons.

I watch other teams and most of them would play these smalls in a BP or HBF as they're developing into the midfield role.
One thing I do understand is our back line is stacked but why not try it here or there.
Haven't seen it been done with any of those 4 players mentioned and I wish they had

Parfitt and Lang are to 2 I would love to see play some footy back there.
Both small, quick, evasive and good tackling players who could run off and use there good skills to better use

the problem for many years is that Scott doesnt drop players for structure so we end up with the tallest backline in history

instead of dropping one of our tall backs and taking a hit with a kid he plays the best 22 players

the new kids get dumped into the forward line because they dont get as exposed there

at least with Mackie and Lonners retiring there will be a need for new blood in the back half but i fear we will still play tall because it gets Chris Scott those home and away wins at Kardinia Park

 

[krisholio14]

Spot on, unfathomable comments from Scott ( is Chad Wingard a marking forward just because he takes the occasional speccy) both are fantastic opportunists who can create goals out of nothing.

And why would we be unbalanced last night with Menzel playing yet not last week, or for most of the year for that matter, or next week when he gets a recall.

The weather turned out better then we expected I think he said as well, well in that case how about making a late change.

Greatest piece of arse covering I've ever heard, though I guess trying to defend the indefensible is pretty bloody hard.

There was a reason why he was dropped, and on field abilities or injury has nothing to do with it.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Just let the players play.

A couple of times this year we just played more instinctively for the ball and the man, less worried about the zone.

They say the time a punter actually loses money is when their horse wins, because the bookie's odds are always worse than the actual chances of a horse winning.

I see it the same with the cats. The actual worst part of our game (and where most of our losses are lost) is when we have the ball in our hands. We get poor value for when we are actually on top. We are static, there is no run, no risk taking, no giving the opposition something to worry about.

I think we play better at KP because we DO attack more and take risks, probably because we think it's easier to defend if we do **** it up.

Our defence was very leaky for a year or two there, but the pendulum has swung back too far the other way.

A side that can be dominated but put on 5 goals in 20 minutes will always be more potent than a defensive one.

Send this to Chris Scott. The massive 157 point win over Richmond was based on this. Bomber said he literally had run out of ideas and stopped all the defensive stuff and let them play their natural game.

 

[calder_daddy]

the problem for many years is that Scott doesnt drop players for structure so we end up with the tallest backline in history

instead of dropping one of our tall backs and taking a hit with a kid he plays the best 22 players

the new kids get dumped into the forward line because they dont get as exposed there

at least with Mackie and Lonners retiring there will be a need for new blood in the back half but i fear we will still play tall because it gets Chris Scott those home and away wins at Kardinia Park

Couldn't agree more
I firmly believe we should've played Harry Taylor on Riewoldt
Dropped Longegan
Played Menzel/buzza

 

[SkittleCats]

Director of Coaching (Simon Lloyd)

Whatever "tricksy" gimmicks or unnatural structures are going on at the club Simon Lloyd has had nothing to do with it. He has been at the club one year and has no role within the playing group.

 

[STPer18]

I've got to disagree sorry, how do you see Tuohy playing better? Thought he was ordinary to say the least on Friday night. And Selwood was awful.

Would have been going off this article judging our team in finals from 2012-17 with some sort of ranking points. Not sure what the points represent but it's pretty damning and somewhat accurate when most of the team measure up far better in the H&A than they do in the finals. Selwood and Tuohy and the only two players whose ratings improve come finals, and two of Tuohy's three finals were played as a Blue.

 

[dazbroncos]

There was a reason why he was dropped, and on field abilities or injury has nothing to do with it.

are you saying the FB rumour has legs and aint so much rumour in reality of the night on the turps?

Go Catters

 

[cats251]

This thread is interesting from page 44 onward, https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/chris-scotts-coaching-part-iii.1171792/page-44
Seems that right after we beat GWS, there was a lot of confident Geelong people who were very quick to bump this thread.

Where have those same posters gone after our capitulation on Friday?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

That's 200 wins and 8 top two finishes in 11 years, so why can't history keep repeating for the Cats



and regular season means nothing... LMAO...
Go Catters

It means nothing when you can't perform in finals. Getting smashed in finals every year isn't exactly pleasant. You'd think we'd have more to show for all those top 2 finishes.

 

[David the Cat]

Couldn't agree more
I firmly believe we should've played Harry Taylor on Riewoldt
Dropped Longegan
Played Menzel/buzza

Lonergan was seen as in our top 5 against the Tigers. I don't think he was the problem.

 

[Daniel McL]

This thread is interesting from page 44 onward, https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/chris-scotts-coaching-part-iii.1171792/page-44
Seems that right after we beat GWS, there was a lot of confident Geelong people who were very quick to bump this thread.

Where have those same posters gone after our capitulation on Friday?

Hahah this happens after pretty much every game if you read back through Chris Scott's Coaching Part I/Part II and Part III.

We win: The people who defend Scott come on asking where all the people who attack Scott are.

We lose: The people who attack Scott come on asking where all the people who defend Scott are.

It's nothing new mate.

 

[calder_daddy]

Lonergan was seen as in our top 5 against the Tigers. I don't think he was the problem.

Don't get me wrong, he plays well on Riewoldt
I thought he did a great job on Friday night, I just suspect personally Taylor could've also done it