Marriage equality debate - The plebiscite is on its way. (Cont in Pt 3)

[Goldenblue]

I dont see it as imposing my view as such, more the view of the majority of the country. If that majority approve the change then fair enough

Basically the teachings of the bible, Adam and Eve, that sort of thing

Ah, but in the bible there are readings in there that allow a brother and sister to marry, but it is not allowed. Right? But gays marrying is a big no no, yet that's where the hypocrisy remains.

 

[Showbags]

Sighs.

3 times higher is not 3% higher.

FMD.

My bad didnt read it properly.

Here's some studies concluding that homophobia and minority distress/discrimination has a direct link with mental health outcomes, and that gay marriage actually has mental health benefits.

Study: The impact of homophobia, poverty, and racism on the mental health of gay and bisexual Latino men: findings from 3 US cities.

Conclusion: The data from the present study suggest that a large proportion of gay and bisexual Latino men who reside in US urban centers exhibit a relatively high frequency of symptoms of psychologic distress that compromise their mental health and well-being. Their psychologic symptoms, however, cannot be merely understood as a product of individual pathology. The negative mental health outcomes observed in this study are deeply connected to a lifelong history and current experiences of social discrimination owing to sexual orientation and racial/ethnic diversity, as well as to high levels of financial hardship due to severe unemployment and poverty.

As predicted, social discrimination has a negative impact on levels of social support and self-esteem, and, not surprisingly, psychological symptoms of distress are more prevalent among those who both are socially isolated and have a low sense of self-worth. These findings have important implications for mental health and prevention programs that target the population of gay and bisexual Latino men in the United States, particularly immigrants. For example, programs must address social isolation and low self-esteem as emerging from experiences of social discrimination. Also, programs should build on the reported factors of high resiliency, from family acceptance to community involvement and social activism, that significantly alleviate the negative consequences of social discrimination on mental health.
​

Study: The mental health benefits of relationship formalisation among lesbians and gay men in same-sex relationships

Conclusions and implications: Relationship formalisation appears to be an important protective factor for mental health among gay men and lesbians, especially among younger sexual minority individuals. These findings suggest that affording same-sex couples the opportunity to formalise their relationship is not only a civil rights issue but also a public health issue.
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To conclude that societal factors and social stigma don't play a part (or the main part) in homosexual depression rates is just an incredible conclusion to make. Even the hardened bigots like Bernardi and Abetz wouldn't have the gall to make that contention.

​

 

[Number37]

I think the fact I am forced to hear Johnny Howard chip in with his 2004 words at every wedding is a major change. Certainly more major that a law change that means two people who are having a committment ceremony may now choose to be officially married.

^ Look at how kooky and weird some of these anti-SSM people are when it comes to being in a couple. Yet these heteros can marry... what's the world coming to?

Given your posting about it in an off-topic thread and given your statements, I'm gonna go right ahead and call you a liar. Submit some proof if you want to be considered otherwise.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/27/1085461876842.html

Mr Howard also said the Family Law Act would be changed to prevent, where possible, gay couples adopting children from overseas.

``We are also going to amend the legislation to ensure that same sex couples ... will not be eligible as prospective adoptive parents under any multilateral or bilateral agreement concerning the adoption of children to which Australia is a party,'' he said.

`

`We've decided to insert this into the Marriage Act to make it very plain that that is our view of a marriage and to also make it very plain that the definition of a marriage is something that should rest in the hands ultimately of the parliament of the nation,'' Mr Howard told reporters.

LOL. Howard. Defending the plebiscite. What a campaigner!

 

[mxett]

You are seriously struggling with logic tonight. If a law applies to everyone, regardless of gender, religious belief, race or other attribute then it is, by definition, non-discriminatory. If my religion suggests murder is ok, but the law doesn't allow it, I'm not being discriminated against.

Do you think the bible was written in the Garden of Eden? Is that what you're saying?

I feel like this really isn't going well for you mate.

you dont seem to be able to discuss this topic without petty insults. Why is that?

Even though the bible was not written during the time of the garden of eden it describes that time pretty clearly.

As for laws and discrimination divorce/family laws could be seen as discriminating against males because they treat males and females differently. Marriage laws also apply to everyone dont they?

 

[Procrastinator35]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/27/1085461876842.html

LOL. Howard. Defending the plebiscite. What a campaigner!

Some might say a Weasel even.....Full of Weaselly words.

 

[Number37]

Some might say a Weasel even.....Full of Weaselly words.

Weasel words were his specialty.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Weasel words were his specialty.

I'm guessing that makes little Johnny, Dubya & Blair the Axis of Weasel.....Like it.

 

[mxett]

Ah, but in the bible there are readings in there that allow a brother and sister to marry, but it is not allowed. Right? But gays marrying is a big no no, yet that's where the hypocrisy remains.

irrespective, male and female is the consistent theme through the bible, despite changes in attitudes towards the details as time advanced

 

[NSWCROW]

 

[Showbags]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ex-marriage-survey-spike-20170916-gyizra.html

Mental health outlets report major surge in LGBT people and their friends/family/supporters accessing services.

"We are hearing a lot from LGBTIQ people that this is reviving traumatic experiences, particularly from their school years," said Professor McGorry, now the executive director of Orygen, the National Centre of Excellence in Youth Mental Health.

And people still dont believe that stigma and discrimination doesnt contribute to mental health issues in gay community.

The government were warned about this but refused to listen or learn about the Irish experience:

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...aign-had-negative-effect-on-most-lgbti-people

 

[JackOutback]

irrespective, male and female is the consistent theme through the bible, despite changes in attitudes towards the details as time advanced

So, hetero incest good, homo bad?

 

[Lebbo73]

Almost certainly yes.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

you dont seem to be able to discuss this topic without petty insults. Why is that?

Even though the bible was not written during the time of the garden of eden it describes that time pretty clearly.

As for laws and discrimination divorce/family laws could be seen as discriminating against males because they treat males and females differently. Marriage laws also apply to everyone dont they?

Add yet another time when Mxett exhibited a lack of understanding about the Bible. This dude is a crock.

 

[Pessimistic]

It is not a secret ballot which right wing politicians have been spruiking for decades

The opportunity for people with strong opinions to influence their friends and family maybe even appropriating their forms is very real

 

[The_Ru]

you dont seem to be able to discuss this topic without petty insults. Why is that?

Even though the bible was not written during the time of the garden of eden it describes that time pretty clearly.

As for laws and discrimination divorce/family laws could be seen as discriminating against males because they treat males and females differently. Marriage laws also apply to everyone dont they?

And it describes Eve being made from Adam's rib. They weren't married. At best, that story is an origin story for human reproduction. It has nothing to do with marriage.

Show me in divorce law (not its application) where there is a differentiation between genders.

Marriage laws are discriminatory because they don't afford the same rights to same-sex couples that heterosexual couples have. i.e. If you're heterosexual you can have your relationship recognised as a marriage. If you're same sex you can't (except in some very specific circumstances). It discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation. John Howard rewrote it specifically for that purpose.

 

[Boston tiger]

If weren't such arseholes towards homosexuals in the first place we probably wouldn't be having this debate. You reap what you sow.

 

[cartwright]

Youth have moblised

Please

Youth need a whip hand to actually go through the effort of voting

Im not convinced our polling has taken into account uncertainty over people actually taking trouble of lodging a postal vote

Oh, I think they very much took that into account - which is why it wasn't an online survey.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Oh, I think they very much took that into account - which is why it wasn't an online survey.

It appears to be the only thing they did take into account.

Otherwise the high court challenge, getting the ABS to do it, the complete lack of transparency as to who has voted. The transparency of the envelopes when a torch is shone through them. The inability to secure the deliveries.

This was already a huge waste of money. Now it won't even work as a survey.

Right-wingers are incompetent.

 

[Number37]

It appears to be the only thing they did take into account.

Otherwise the high court challenge, getting the ABS to do it, the complete lack of transparency as to who has voted. The transparency of the envelopes when a torch is shone through them. The inability to secure the deliveries.

This was already a huge waste of money. Now it won't even work as a survey.

Right-wingers are incompetent.

The Murdoch press will go all out to show how it was a rort...which will give those in the LNP the reason they need to justify voting against SSM in parliament.

 

[Goldenblue]

irrespective, male and female is the consistent theme through the bible, despite changes in attitudes towards the details as time advanced

And now is the time for religion to advance it's attitudes towards gay marriage. Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years and will be for many thousands of years to come. Religion will not ever eradicate it so maybe it's time for most churches to accept it. In time, religion will die, but homosexuality will not. I have the utmost respect for church leaders who are embracing the yes vote and see it as progressive and refuse to condemn people because of their love for the same sex. God loves gays too if he created them, he created gays, am I right?

The only people who can not accept this are people like yourself and that bigoted medieval dinosaur Margaret Court and dickheads like Tony Abbott, Bernardi, Hastie and other morons in the Christian right of the LNP.

 

[Goldenblue]

So, hetero incest good, homo bad?

My sister once told me if I was not her brother, she would do me. Now I know she was joking and that type of thing is wrong, but according to you mxett, if that happened you would be alright with it?

 

[Number37]

My sister once told me if I was not her brother, she would do me. Now I know she was joking and that type of thing is wrong, but according to you mxett, if that happened you would be alright with it?

Wowzer GB.

 

[Goldenblue]

Wowzer GB.

Just throwing out the question. Just want to see his response, believe me I was uncomfortable even bringing it up.

 

[ep2018]

Oh, I think they very much took that into account - which is why it wasn't an online survey.

Letter should be no problem either, tick a box and take it down to a letter box during lunch break or on your way to uni/TAFE.

 

[cartwright]

Letter should be no problem either, tick a box and take it down to a letter box during lunch break or on your way to uni/TAFE.

That's presuming you get one, that it actually arrives at the return address, that irs not stolen or physically damaged.
There's a reason we don't vote like this, a reason "snail mail" is declining and a reason the census is moving online.
It's inefficient and too many points of failure.

But the guy who resigned via fax, probably knew all of that - as long as the 80 year old in Griffith gets to cast their vote in a survey, deciding the lives of others - that's the main thing!