List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

[jonbe54]

My only concern is he runs around like a ugly duckling - let's hope he turns into our next Swan.

Like what you did there - Ugly duckling turning into Swan

 

[Scodog10]

You left out one pertinent stat to go with that: Contested possessions
Adams 257
Phillips 136

I'm not a big fan of raw numbers, but this at least provides better context to me. One point though in relation to the ball use of both of them.

There's 25 mins gone in the last quarter of a Semi Final and we're trailing by 3 points. Do you want the ball in the hands of either of them? Phillips is inexperienced, but he isn't going to be a cool head, IMO, and you could almost guarantee Adams would blaze away in that situation. If we're looking at ground level players in this draft that would be my main KPI.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Carlton are potentially going to have a very good off season, makes me a little sad.

Lose Gibbs, but bring in Rockliff, D.Smith and M.Kennedy all while keeping Pick 3.

 

[unplugged]

Carlton are potentially going to have a very good off season, makes me a little sad.

Lose Gibbs, but bring in Rockliff, D.Smith and M.Kennedy all while keeping Pick 3.

Would you rather be in their position though? They've been bottom 4-5 for how long now?

 

[partypie]

My only concern is he runs around like a ugly duckling - let's hope he turns into our next Swan.

If our fitness / development teams can work on his agility (both physical and mental) and burst speed a little then that will hopefully make all of the close quarters work and his disposal under pressure better.

When assessing a players disposal you always have to keep on mind that our structures, running patterns and disposal skills as a group are still generally poor.

 

[wicksy]

Wow a positive post about one of our up and comers.. calm down there

Yeah I like to play devil's advocate.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Would you rather be in their position though? They've been bottom 4-5 for how long now?

We're not that much better than them of late.

We haven't played finals the last 4 seasons, they haven't played finals the last 6 seasons.

Neither team is making finals next year either.
I'll back them in to move up the ladder more places than us next year.

 

[Tazzaye]

These ads are bloody annoying

 

[wicksy]

We're not that much better than them of late.

We haven't played finals the last 4 seasons, they haven't played finals the last 6 seasons.

Neither team is making finals next year either.
I'll back them in to move up the ladder more places than us next year.

Care for a wager?

 

[cleomenes]

Why is everyone so sure Fasolo wants to leave?
Why do half forwards who average more than a goal a game in other teams become valued more than he is by his own supporters?
Proven goal kickers are hard to come by.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Care for a wager?

You think Carlton can make finals next year?

It's very unlikely we'll add any substantial personel.
Where is the improvement going to come from to win the extra 5 games?

I love your optimism, i just can't see it.
Too many butchers, poor ball movement and very very few 4 quarter performances.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Why is everyone so sure Fasolo wants to leave?
Why do half forwards who average more than a goal a game in other teams become valued more than he is by his own supporters?
Proven goal kickers are hard to come by.

Combination of some that have received an indication he is considering a move home, his depression, Waldron and Channel 7 both reporting a move home is on the cards.

I like Faz, if he could get some consistency, continuity with his body and in the right frame of mind, he's a 40 goal forward.

I think his value to us is more than someone will be willing to pay.

 

[pablo disco bar]

I like Phillips personally because he does the one thing that you can't teach which is finding the ball. Beyond that though there are question marks because of the role he plays.

IMO, to be a top level outside player you need two of an engine, composure and speed. Phillips has the engine and is lacking in the other two areas currently. A player with similar issues is Rohan who has the speed although he lacks the engine and composure to be a consistent top level performer. Seedy has the speed and lacks the others as well. Steele has the composure and engine. Scully has all three.

He isn't going to get any quicker so moving forward I would work on his composure when he receives frontal pressure (fortunately he isn't Smith/ Oxley poor under pressure). If that continues to remain an issue an increased focus on contested ball will also see him improve, but it does mean a bit of a role shift. Overall I think he'll wind up about the same level as Brandon Ellis which is great value for a guy selected in the fourth round.

I can see why he's polarising too because those outside types usually are. Relying heavily on others feeding you the ball in order to be effective makes it difficult to be universally rated. Hence why the very best can do it inside and outside. Its not rocket science and it's odd to see posters getting hot under the collar over it.

FWIW if I were told we were losing one of Phillips or Sidebottom and I was given the choice of which one we keep I'd be letting Steele go. It's about value to me and the market overrates Steele and underrates Phillips, IMO.

Mark mcgough also found alot of the ball

 

[Piestration]

That's exactly what we need - more C graders on our list. Good decision ... not.

I thought he was a chance of being delisted

Yeah because we can have a team full of mature A graders.

That's how it works.

 

[jackcass]

Phillips is a ripper for us. He's one of our best two way runners already. He helps balance our midfield and adds to our ability to defend or attack on transition. He puts his head over it when it's his go. He sneaks forward and kicks goals. His field kicking is fine outside of the occasional clanger, which all players do. He's an outside mid which we need. And he's still young. My biggest knock is his pace but shit, given what he gives us, that isn't so bad. He's being seriously underrated and valued in this thread.

While I agree with some of what you say, Phillips is easily the most frustrating player on our list. Watch opposition fast transition from their defence. It's more often than not Phillips's opponent who provides the pivotal link through the midfield. You can see it's going to happen 2-3 possessions before it does yet he just dawdles along giving his opponent 10-20 metres. It's almost as though he doesn't even realise it's his opponent until he actually gets the footy, then his lack of pace doesn't allow him to fix his stuff up. He and Smith are 2 of the worst defensive players in our squad. The other thing that frustrates me is his lack of impact. Racks up possession but rarely hurts the opposition with it. Would likely have currency and if he departs then I'm not going to be overly heartbroken. And I consider myself pretty optimistic about our players so easy to understand the rhetoric about him.

 

[jackcass]

Mayne getting paid $500k when worth half that.
Wells getting paid $600k when worth about $400k.

Really? Wow, I can't believe that hasn't been discussed before.

 

[unplugged]

On no the forum just changed, did it not? I can't deal!

 

[jackcass]

My only concern is he runs around like a ugly duckling - let's hope he turns into our next Swan.

Swan had pace.

 

[Apex36]

On no the forum just changed, did it not? I can't deal!

It's ****ing awful my eyes are bleeding

 

[jackcass]

C'mon Mike... Most supporters would be stoked that a young player has won a rising star nom and will feature highly in the club bnf in their 2nd year.
It's not like the guy was a first round pick that was built to play seniors from the get go (ala Daniel Rich).
He came to the club a skinny kid taken at #58 (same pick as someone else we know ), tore Steele's 2km record in half, worked his way into the seniors and has not put a foot wrong since.

Yeah he turns it over every now and then but so does Jack Crisp, Taylor Adams, Adam Treloar, Steele Sidebottom etc etc.
He runs the other way harder than anyone in our team and is always providing an option.

This year, he averaged 21.1 disposals over 18 games with 1.7 clangers.
Among other "rising stars", he was 3rd in total disposals and 3rd in effective disposals. He ranked 2nd for score involvements per game.

In comparison with the eventual Rising star winner, Andrew McGrath, Tom had more disposals, more marks, more goals, more tackles, more I50s, more goal assists, more contested possessions, more uncontested possessions. His effective disposals was 15.2 v McGrath's 16.0 with McGrath going at 80.8% whereas Tom was a respectable 73%. Tom's clearance rate was double McGrath's, score involvements higher, metres gained nearly double, tackles inside 50 also higher.

Have I won you over yet?
This kid is 21, about to start his 3rd pre season and had 7 games with over 22 disposals in his 2nd year. Statistically, he was better than the Rising Star winner.

Yes, but McGrath was rarely beaten 1v1, took on and beat some of the best small forwards in the league. You'd hardly expect him to go chasing kicks as a 1st year player charged with minding players of the ilk of Eddie Betts.

Like to see some stats for Phillips opponents and what they average against him.

 

[loki04]

Adams disposal is much better, not even close actually abd both play different roles.

Yep Adams cops a bit of extra heat as his bad kicks are usually direct turnovers (which stick in the mind), but he also hits up some very good targets and is generally a good kick when not trying to kick the skin off it. It's funny Treloar is probably an equal or worse kick but gets a huge amount of grace for it.

Phillips while young also has howlers and likely unfair at this stage of his career to judge.

 

[unplugged]

It's ******* awful my eyes are bleeding

Hopefully it's still work in progress or Chief decides against it. It's so congested yet spread out, text is bigger, can't see who supports what side. Too much wrong with it.

 

[Apex36]

The Darcy Moore trade talk is inevitable

Eh?

 

[mike123]

C'mon Mike... Most supporters would be stoked that a young player has won a rising star nom and will feature highly in the club bnf in their 2nd year.
It's not like the guy was a first round pick that was built to play seniors from the get go (ala Daniel Rich).
He came to the club a skinny kid taken at #58 (same pick as someone else we know ), tore Steele's 2km record in half, worked his way into the seniors and has not put a foot wrong since.

Yeah he turns it over every now and then but so does Jack Crisp, Taylor Adams, Adam Treloar, Steele Sidebottom etc etc.
He runs the other way harder than anyone in our team and is always providing an option.

This year, he averaged 21.1 disposals over 18 games with 1.7 clangers.
Among other "rising stars", he was 3rd in total disposals and 3rd in effective disposals. He ranked 2nd for score involvements per game.

In comparison with the eventual Rising star winner, Andrew McGrath, Tom had more disposals, more marks, more goals, more tackles, more I50s, more goal assists, more contested possessions, more uncontested possessions. His effective disposals was 15.2 v McGrath's 16.0 with McGrath going at 80.8% whereas Tom was a respectable 73%. Tom's clearance rate was double McGrath's, score involvements higher, metres gained nearly double, tackles inside 50 also higher.

Have I won you over yet?
This kid is 21, about to start his 3rd pre season and had 7 games with over 22 disposals in his 2nd year. Statistically, he was better than the Rising Star winner.

I already said he can turn into a decent player but your arguments again have nothing to do with his ceiling.

Those other players who turn it over make up for it in other attributes, unfortunately Tom is one paced outside player he can't afford to turn it over.

 

[Soups]

On no the forum just changed, did it not? I can't deal!

Try being on strong pain killers all week and then look at it. It is wack!