Roast Who is Cam Joyce?

[Psicosis]

I've had enough of this bloke running our football department - with all the criticism that Brad Scott gets, this bloke is deserving of the same.

He has no football pedigree (started in the marketing department) and has been a main feature and contributor throughout our mediocrity. When compared to the likes of a Neil Balme at Richmond, I do not understand how this guy is running the show.

It's been said once, but it's still relevant as ever - this bloke couldn't sell water to an Ethiopian village in a drought, how is he going to sell the north Melbourne football club?

Get. Rid. Of.

 

[Kanga1996]

• 
  

  I've had enough of this bloke running our football department - with all the criticism that Brad Scott gets, this bloke is deserving of the same.
  
  He has no football pedigree (started in the marketing department) and has been a main feature and contributor throughout our mediocrity. When compared to the likes of a Neil Balme at Richmond, I do not understand how this guy is running the show.
  
  It's been said once, but it's still relevant as ever - this bloke couldn't sell water to an Ethiopian village in a drought, how is he going to sell the north Melbourne football club?
  
  Get. Rid. Of.

  Not a huge fan but he has been in the game for 17 years.
  
  
• • 
    General Manager - Football
    Company NameNorth Melbourne Football Club
    Dates EmployedNov 2016 – Present
    
    Employment Duration1 yr
  • 
    List Manager
    Company NameNorth Melbourne Football Club
    Dates EmployedMay 2008 – Oct 2016
    
    Employment Duration8 yrs 6 mos
    LocationMelbourne, Australia
  • 
    Opposition Scout
    Company NameWest Coast Eagles
    Dates EmployedDec 2004 – Apr 2008
    
    Employment Duration3 yrs 5 mos
    LocationMelbourne, Australia
  • 
    Recruiting Officer
    Company NameNorth Melbourne Football Club
    Dates EmployedNov 2003 – Nov 2004
    
    Employment Duration1 yr 1 mo
    LocationMelbourne, Australia
  • 
    Football Administration Assistant & Marketing Assistant
    Company NameRichmond Football Club
    Dates EmployedNov 2000 – Oct 2003
    
    Employment Duration3 yrs
    LocationMelbourne, Australia

 

[kingcarey1]

He’s more vanilla than Dairy Bell’s signature ice cream.

I don’t necessarily agree that you need football pedigree, but you must be a great salesman and a visionary. Either of which he is not.

 

[GreatBradScott]

It's really time to be honest with ourselves. We love the shit out of this place, but it's a tough sell for a range of factors both in and out of our control.

While I want more out of everyone, just cause someone 'has pedigree' doesn't mean they're good at their jobs. Heaps of football people don't have any.

And if anything, diversifying skill sets is better for professionalising the industry in the long run, rather than a pub league boys club.

And we're not the only club who is having issues attracting players. There's little on the market and a host of clubs will go into the next year without their needs filled.

I get everyone was excited about Martin and Kelly, but there's no need to completely lose perspective.

 

[Maddocks44]

Spot on, every bit of media I’ve seen him in nearly puts me to sleep. Imagine being an elite young player weighing up offers from several clubs and this is the bloke we roll out to sell our club? Get rid of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[King Corey]

While your OP does seem a bit OTT..

..based on the resume in the Kanga1996 post I've got to ask what he did to qualify as a list manager of an AFL club?

None of the previous roles appear meaty enough to skill him up for that.

 

[giantroo]

While your OP does seem a bit OTT..

..based on the resume in the Kanga1996 post I've got to ask what he did to qualify as a list manager of an AFL club?

None of the previous roles appear meaty enough to skill him up for that.

Working with Geoff Walsh and then Walsh watching over him?

 

[shintemaster]

While your OP does seem a bit OTT..

..based on the resume in the Kanga1996 post I've got to ask what he did to qualify as a list manager of an AFL club?

None of the previous roles appear meaty enough to skill him up for that.

Honestly though, we live in a world where every man and his dog goes to university to study things that when they get to their chosen job the relearn completely - often unlearning things the company doesn't like in the process.

I work in a reasonably technical field, completely and totally unrelated from any formal study and do just fine. This is such a small, specialised field that I think all you can do is ensure that board and management are fearless, open and fair in their assessment of skills (not enough knowledge from me to even begin to judge ours on this).

It's reasonable to ask the question about any role, but when it comes down to it. Anyone that spends that long around football is as qualified as anyone else to do the job. It's then about ability to perform against a benchmark.

 

[gokangas]

My question is what does the role entail? List Manager! Hmmm - how much responsibility falls on the List Manager's shoulders for the failure to land the big fish? I am sure he is not the only person involved. No doubt our public endeavours and subsequent failures 'damaged our brand'. More fuel for the North haters to laugh at us. But is it Cam's fault alone? Not sure - doubt it.

 

[King Corey]

Working with Geoff Walsh and then Walsh watching over him?

Walsh left in 2007 so no mentoring there.

 

[giantroo]

Walsh left in 2007 so no mentoring there.

He came back again though and now Joyce is the GM.

 

[King Corey]

Honestly though, we live in a world where every man and his dog goes to university to study things that when they get to their chosen job the relearn completely - often unlearning things the company doesn't like in the process.

I work in a reasonably technical field, completely and totally unrelated from any formal study and do just fine. This is such a small, specialised field that I think all you can do is ensure that board and management are fearless, open and fair in their assessment of skills (not enough knowledge from me to even begin to judge ours on this).

It's reasonable to ask the question about any role, but when it comes down to it. Anyone that spends that long around football is as qualified as anyone else to do the job. It's then about ability to perform against a benchmark.

Agree with some of that.

If we're going with real world experience though - he's had no time in the u18 system, no time in the VFL system and gained experience at Richmond at North during periods they constructed substandard lists. 2003-4 at North was a period the club didn't even take in rookies.

His opposition scout time at WC might have some merit in terms of gaining knowledge by osmosis during a successful era. I hope for our sake he wasn't Vic based for the role..

If he was, he's he had little to no experience directly observing and modelling a successful list manager during his career, such as a Wells or Wright.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I've had enough of this bloke running our football department - with all the criticism that Brad Scott gets, this bloke is deserving of the same.

He has no football pedigree (started in the marketing department) and has been a main feature and contributor throughout our mediocrity. When compared to the likes of a Neil Balme at Richmond, I do not understand how this guy is running the show.

It's been said once, but it's still relevant as ever - this bloke couldn't sell water to an Ethiopian village in a drought, how is he going to sell the north Melbourne football club?

Get. Rid. Of.

Not sure if worth replying, but here goes. He has been in this job for ONE YEAR. I don't think he did badly at list management given the options available, and he also acted as part of a team and under a Board do list management was not all in him. Building the list is not about one guy's personal magnetism - attracting free agents and trades is about a whole lot of factors and people.

 

[King Corey]

He came back again though and now Joyce is the GM.

Walsh was gone 2008-13 so was a non-factor for the bulk of Joyce's list manager career.

 

[King Corey]

Not sure if worth replying, but here goes. He has been in this job for ONE YEAR. I don't think he did badly at list management given the options available, and he also acted as part of a team and under a Board do list management was not all in him. Building the list is not about one guy's personal magnetism - attracting free agents and trades is about a whole lot of factors and people.

I thought the same at first H2H but Psicosis does raise a good point in that this bloke being a key player on par with Brad and not really being discussed much in the scheme of things amongst us dirty unwashed masses.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Agree with some of that.

If we're going with real world experience though - he's had no time in the u18 system, no time in the VFL system and gained experience at Richmond at North during periods they constructed substandard lists. 2003-4 at North was a period the club didn't even take in rookies.

His opposition scout time at WC might have some merit in terms of gaining knowledge by osmosis during a successful era. I hope for our sake he wasn't Vic based for the role..

If he was, he's he had little to no experience directly observing and modelling a successful list manager during his career, such as a Wells or Wright.

Now these are fair questions. I guess that's where his sidekick's Geelong pedigree is useful.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I thought the same at first H2H but Psicosis does raise a good point in that this bloke being a key player on par with Brad and not really being discussed much in the scheme of things amongst us dirty unwashed masses.

That's a fair point to make. "Get. Rid. Of." doesn't sound like that fair point though.

 

[King Corey]

That's a fair point to make. "Get. Rid. Of." doesn't sound like that fair point though.

To be fair to the big fella, living in a world where we're consigned to the cellar and have just seen the weakest 2 premiership teams manifest in consecutive years will fry the morale of the most passionate disciple.

 

[shintemaster]

Agree with some of that.

If we're going with real world experience though - he's had no time in the u18 system, no time in the VFL system and gained experience at Richmond at North during periods they constructed substandard lists. 2003-4 at North was a period the club didn't even take in rookies.

His opposition scout time at WC might have some merit in terms of gaining knowledge by osmosis during a successful era. I hope for our sake he wasn't Vic based for the role..

If he was, he's he had little to no experience directly observing and modelling a successful list manager during his career, such as a Wells or Wright.

Don't get me wrong, I'm only playing Devil's Advocate. It seems reasonable to ask the question I just have no idea how from the outside in we can even hope to judge it - some of us are more inside and probably can do so, but for mine this field is small enough and specialised enough that I don't see how anyone can tell without insider knowledge.

The problem - for me - with list management / draft analysis is the one I see every year in the papers. Where they rate how each club went in the draft and lo and behold, knock me down with a feather the club with 4 picks in the top 20 gets an A+... You can only use what you have. I've been pretty unequivocal about my thoughts on the impact of the GWS / GC era on all of the clubs not in the top few at the right time and what this has meant for list development of all of the existing clubs. Personally I think the WB / Richmond flags are a clear indicator of just how weak the competition has become on average. Talent is stretched massively thin and while teams might be more "even" they are also more susceptible to the impacts of injury than they have been in a long time (IMO).

 

[kaboom kid]

My question is what does the role entail? List Manager! Hmmm - how much responsibility falls on the List Manager's shoulders for the failure to land the big fish? I am sure he is not the only person involved. No doubt our public endeavours and subsequent failures 'damaged our brand'. More fuel for the North haters to laugh at us. But is it Cam's fault alone? Not sure - doubt it.

Exactly, blaming Joyce for our failure to land big fish is just preopsterous. Its not his job to sell the club, it's mainly the coach and leadership group that do that. I don't think players are saying "I'm signing for club X because of their charismatic young list manager". Its an analytical and strategic role. People need to face up to the fact that we're a tough sell at the moment. There's plenty of other clubs showed interest in Kelly and Martin burr missed out. Personally, I've been really happy with the list management decisions we've made, letting Wells and Greenwood go, signing Hrovat and Williams, aggressively chasing elite talent and once that failed not wanting to settle for lesser players. Clearly adopting a ,ong term outlook now. Delisting Gibson, Mullett and Wagner was the right move. My main gripe is hanging on to Goldie, Preuss and Majak as barring injuries 2 of them are playing VFL all year. Even that may not be the club's fault, you can't trade without a suitor.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Everything would be a hard sell when you have Brad Scott in charge I'm tipping.

 

[Firestarter]

Everything would be a hard sell when you have Brad Scott in charge I'm tipping.

Bradshrug.gif

I don't have an opinion so don't mind me.

 

[Donkey Chop]

I like him. Feel heaps better about him running things then Walsh.

This time last year I have my concerns but I think he’s made some good, brave decisions. At the start of the year clubs were scoffing at our offer to Kelly, by the end of the year they were scrambling to try and match it.

Now when it hasn’t come off, instead of shitting himself and throwing money & picks at anyone to try to appease the media pressure, he’s seemingly stayed cool and will do the right thing by the club.

Very happy

 

[B4Bear]

If we were serious about list management we would have employed Emma Quayl three years ago.

We aren't, we didn't; so we just have to suck it up.

 

[North Viking]

In response to your thread title it could be perhaps either one of the two below?


If your not sure you could run a poll to help clear things up!
I think it’s paramount that we define just exactly who Cam Joyce is!!