Off-topic ENGLAND ARE SHIT, Smith can GAGF

[El Dubya]

Wow what a sad indictment on the state of Australian Cricket that the best options include a Bloke who has had 8 failed cracks at it and another who doesn’t even keep for his State and has only ever made one First Class century…

In Paine's defence, he'd keep for his state if CA hadn't told Tasmania to play Wade.

 

[I Rock]

In Paine's defence, he'd keep for his state if CA hadn't told Tasmania to play Wade.

Facts and Logic have no place here.


I see your point though. However the Bloke was by some claimed reports about to hang up the boots in regards to First Class Cricket, not more than a week or so ago.

 

[Bodicifer]

In Paine's defence, he'd keep for his state if CA hadn't told Tasmania to play Wade.

this is the irony. Youd love to know what the policies are for selecting players...obviously they're as loose as Zeboyz at a family reunion

 

[El Dubya]

Facts and Logic have no place here.


I see your point though. However the Bloke was by some claimed reports about to hang up the boots in regards to First Class Cricket, not more than a week or so ago.

Yep. Our keepers are shit. Bowlers better keep it tight otherwise there's going to be a lot of byes.

 

[I Rock]

Why isn't Bancroft keeping? Serious question, I haven't seen him keep before. If he is good enough at State Level how bad can he be. He bats at six still and then there is a spot for a Bowling All Rounder at seven.

 

[El Dubya]

Why isn't Bancroft keeping? Serious question, I haven't seen him keep before. If he is good enough at State Level how bad can he be. He bats at six still and then there is a spot for a Bowling All Rounder at seven.

Apparently he's a fill in at state level. A Handscomb level keeper.

 

[Laphroaig]

He was a pretty handy bowler and fielder too which helped keep him in the side and Australia was short of quality players back then, NZ thrashed Australia in the 1985/86 test series along with the Poms in the 1986/87 Ashes series so it's not like Steve Waugh was the only problem in that side.

Didn't say he was.

I observed that he failed and was forgiven more than any other player ever has, and by a good long way.

A player selected as a batsman averages 25 or less in ONE series, he's dead man walking. He's averaging less than 20 then he is not going to make it through the series before he gets the tap on the shoulder.

Steve Waugh averaged 25 or less in more than half of the series he played over 8 years. In most of those, it was under 20.

 

[El Dubya]

Didn't say he was.

I observed that he failed and was forgiven more than any other player ever has, and by a good long way.

A player selected as a batsman averages 25 or less in ONE series, he's dead man walking. He's averaging less than 20 then he is not going to make it through the series before he gets the tap on the shoulder.

Steve Waugh averaged 25 or less in more than half of the series he played over 8 years. In most of those, it was under 20.

If anything this is just making an argument for why Renshaw should be retained. Pick class young, back them in and give them time to develop, then they can become one of Australia's all time greats.

 

[hawkman]

Let's not get sidetracked by Bancroft or Paine selections


Marsh!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[El Dubya]

Let's not get sidetracked by Bancroft or Paine selections


Marsh!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Starburns_]

You Victorians have a bigger sporting complex (cricket) than the west Aussies with the afl.

Except the NSW bias is a real thing (hi Maddinson, Henriques, SOK, Watson during his most infuriating years), and it's not only us who know it.

And, of course the MCG is the biggest complex, duh.

Try to name any player, ever, who was so protected. Waugh's first 3 series, over 8 tests, he scored the amazing total of 173 runs. Amazing because he was allowed to remain in the side. I can't think of another player who goes even close to that.

I'd like to review your call.

 

[pirate bob]

The running joke always used to be that when a player got picked for NSW he'd be given a Baggy Green in a paper bag with his new state kit

 

[richoatthedisco]

Amongst all of this, barely a groan over Khawaja's likely selection.

Khawaja is a superstar in Australia.

I'm far less a Darsh hater than most here, but Maxwell's treatment is a ****ing disgrace.

I'd prefer Mitch Marsh to Shaun because at the very least he can ease the bowling load on the three guys who're actually going to win the series.

Mitch is a decent bowler but unfortunately his batting is too robotic to stand up to Test scrutiny.

Steve Waugh was kissed on the dick by the selectors more than any player in history.

May not have been dropped and recalled 8 times, but it took 8 years in his protected species undroppable career for his test average to bid farewell to the 20s.

I am by no means Steve Waugh's biggest fan, but this is plain wrong. He was averaging 30 before we went to England in 1989, three years into his career - and he averaged 127 in that series. He was also averaging nearly two wickets per Test at that point, so was a genuine all-rounder. Picking and sticking with him from the age of 20, at the lowest ebb Australian cricket has maybe ever seen, was ballsy and ultimately proved inspired and 100% correct.

Didn't say he was.

I observed that he failed and was forgiven more than any other player ever has, and by a good long way.

A player selected as a batsman averages 25 or less in ONE series, he's dead man walking. He's averaging less than 20 then he is not going to make it through the series before he gets the tap on the shoulder.

Steve Waugh averaged 25 or less in more than half of the series he played over 8 years. In most of those, it was under 20.

He played 20 'series' in his first eight years and you're right, averaged less than 30 in 11 of them. But five of those 'series' were one-off Tests. So, not series at all. By definition. Four of those five one-offs he averaged less than 30. Take them out, as they're not series, and you have 7 of 15 series in which he averaged under 30. Two of those were his first two series, at the age of 20. Another was the disastrous 1988 tour of Pakistan, when Border and Darsh's old man were the only members of Australia's top 7 to average more than 22 (Boon 19.50, Waugh 18.40, Jones 8.80, Wood 21.75, Healy 18.75). One of Waugh or Jones would have been dropped for Jamie Siddons in that series, had Siddons not been struck down with illness.

Prior to that Pakistan series, Waugh's results were on the up. He averaged 59 in India in 1986, 44 in the 86/87 Ashes debacle, and 36 against NZ in 87/88. Immediately following the Pakistan tour he had a great home series (average of 41, plus took 10 wickets) against the still-mighty Windies, with brilliant, brave, back-to-back 90s in Brisbane and Perth back when those pitches were nightmares to face the likes of Ambrose, Marshall, Patterson and Walsh. Then came the 1989 domination.

He could have been dropped in the 1989/90 home series against Pakistan, although I doubt anyone else would have fared much better against the unplayable genius that was Wasim Akram that season. He was dropped a year later, was probably a touch lucky to get back in 12 months after that, but the selectors knew their man and they were right. Despite a 100 in Sydney, he had a poor 92/93 series against the Windies, but it was at the unsuited No.3 spot he at least had the balls to put his hand up for (not unselfishly, because he knew that was his only way back into the side). He dominated from 1993 onward and goes down as an all-time great of the game. He's one for the 'got it right' book.

 

[Laphroaig]

Khawaja is a superstar in Australia.

I am by no means Steve Waugh's biggest fan, but this is plain wrong. He was averaging in the 30s before we went to England in 1989, three years into his career. He was also averaging nearly two wickets per Test at that point, so was a genuine all-rounder. Picking and sticking with him from the age of 20, at the lowest ebb Australian cricket has maybe ever seen, was ballsy and ultimately proved inspired and 100% correct.


He played 20 'series' in his first eight years and you're right, averaged less than 30 in 11 of them. But five of those 'series' were one-off Tests. So, not series at all. By definition. Four of those five one-offs he averaged less than 30. Take them out, as they're not series, and you have 7 of 15 series in which he averaged under 30. Two of those were his first two series, at the age of 20. Another was the disastrous 1988 tour of Pakistan, when Border and Darsh's old man were the only members of Australia's top 7 to average more than 22 (Boon 19.50, Waugh 18.40, Jones 8.80, Wood 21.75, Healy 18.75). One of Waugh or Jones would have been dropped for Jamie Siddons in that series, had Siddons not been struck down with illness.

Prior to that Pakistan series, Waugh's results were on the up. He averaged 59 in India in 1986, 44 in the 86/87 Ashes debacle, and 36 against NZ in 87/88. Immediately following the Pakistan tour he had a great home series (average of 41, plus took 10 wickets) against the still-mighty Windies, with brilliant, brave, back-to-back 90s in Brisbane and Perth back when those pitches were nightmares to face the likes of Ambrose, Marshall, Patterson and Walsh. Then came the 1989 domination.

He could have been dropped in the 1989/90 home series against Pakistan, although I doubt anyone else would have fared much better against the unplayable genius that was Wasim Akram that season. He was dropped a year later, was probably a touch lucky to get back in 12 months after that, but the selectors knew their man and they were right. Despite a 100 in Sydney, he had a poor 92/93 series against the Windies, but it was at the unsuited No.3 spot he at least had the balls to put his hand up for (not unselfishly, because he knew that was his only way back into the side). He dominated from 1993 onward and goes down as an all-time great of the game. He's one for the 'got it right' book.

Perhaps you need to drill a little deeper.

I'll give you a shorter version. Given that you like deciding that some things can be viewed as "don't count".

How do you like this one. In a single golden flash, in two consecutive innings Waugh made 300 and some runs. The statistical impact of that golden fortnight being doubled by both innings declared into not outs.

Take out those two innings, and for the entire remainder of Waugh's "Part One" career his average is under 30. All seven years and how ever many weeks. It's not just the bottom line that is shocking. It's the realisation that so few runs can make so great a difference to our understanding.

To put it another way, in his first 8 years he was a test quality contributor for two weeks.

 

[Plugger35]

Steve Waugh was lucky in that he came along at one of Australia's lowest ebbs so got given more time than most to establish himself in the test side but Border, Simpson and the rest of the selectors knew he had the talent to be a good test player so backed him in for the long term and it eventually paid off.

There wasn't much point dropping Waugh for a player with better immediate form but less long term potential when Australia was getting thrashed anyway.

 

[El Dubya]

Is Laphroaig related to Shane Warne?

 

[richoatthedisco]

Perhaps you need to drill a little deeper.

I'll give you a shorter version. Given that you like deciding that some things can be viewed as "don't count".

How do you like this one. In a single golden flash, in two consecutive innings Waugh made 300 and some runs. The statistical impact of that golden fortnight being doubled by both innings declared into not outs.

Take out those two innings, and for the entire remainder of Waugh's "Part One" career his average is under 30. All seven years and how ever many weeks. It's not just the bottom line that is shocking. It's the realisation that so few runs can make so great a difference to our understanding.

To put it another way, in his first 8 years he was a test quality contributor for two weeks.

Horseshit.

 

[Laphroaig]

A
Try to name any player, ever, who was so protected. Waugh's first 3 series, over 8 tests, he scored the amazing total of 173 runs. Amazing because he was allowed to remain in the side. I can't think of another player who goes even close to that.

I'd like to review your call.

Sadly you have slammed your own penis in the door.

The worst 8 test sequence I can find for Watto he's put in about 300 runs. Nearly twice what S Waugh produced in those all important early games where a bloke stakes his claim for a spot. Or is just given it in the manner of a Buckley contract extension.

To mark out the stark difference even further, Watson made 212 runs in his first three test matches. For which he was dropped. Compared to S. Waugh's 170 some in his first 8 test matches, for which it seems he was guaranteed a spot in the side in perpetuity and promised the captaincy when the incumbent retired.

 

[pirate bob]

Watched Waugh's last game, the 1 day final vs WA at the WACA. He made 65-70 odd runs. Looked like a grown man playing against the U15's. He was just all over them

 

[David Schwarz]

lol this is dead set the dumbest conversation I've ever seen

 

[Laphroaig]

Horseshit.

Seems to be that time of day for the self slamming of the penis.

That series was widely expected to kickstart Waugh's Test career, but it didn't quite transpire that way, as the next three years were largely forgettable. That 1989 series was one of three instances - out of the 13 series he played before 1993 - when his series batting average exceeded 50. Exclude that Ashes high, and Waugh's average during this period was an uncomfortably low 29.64, with two centuries in 40 Tests.

From a highly complimentary profile of Waugh's career.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/487036.html

 

[pirate bob]

Also remember going to AO for the 92-93 test against the West Indies. The test we lost by 1 run on the last day. Was in the Chequered Flag Bar in the East End later in the evening and Taylor, Warne and 2 other players came in and started swilling cocktails. Taylor left early with a girl under each arm. I think he was already out.

Waugh got absolutely hammered by the West Indies quicks though. He must have been covered in bruises after that innings. Didn't throw the towel in though.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Shaun’s dad also had the unique ability to clog up the test side. Probably one of the most ordinary players to chock up 50 tests.

Anyway, all this illustrates again is how much of a mess Cricket Australia has become... again. We’re still floundering in the decline that is tied to Shane Watson’s initial inclusion to the team... 12 years ago.

 

[Laphroaig]

lol this is dead set the dumbest conversation I've ever seen

Your incisive debating skills are compelling....

 

[David Schwarz]

Your incisive debating skills are compelling....

Yes Waugh was a hack and Darsh just needs 8 more years to become the greatest batsmen ever