Movie Star Wars: The Last Jedi. - THREAD PART 1 - *SPOILERS and RUMORS* - Cont. in Part 2

[Mootsy]

I love how everyone just deflects to the OT “flaws” as if that somehow excuses the shit writing in TLJ.

And again it has been mentioned that it was visually a very good film, and I did enjoy parts of it.

But that doesn’t excuse the writing and treatment of the characters, it is still a shit film.

It's not sh*t writing just because it doesn't fit what you wanted, read all 100 star wars books and listen to all SW audio books, expand your mind a bit. Realise that not everything is the status quo, characters change, stories can go anywhere, you don't have to like any of it, but it doesn't make it bad writing or a bad film.

TFA was very much a mirror of New Hope. Thank gawd Rian did something different with the story and in many elements he kept it safe and easy as well...

Honestly, it's fine.

I think come the next film, people will be grateful we got something new and challenging in the middle.

 

[Strange Cat]

It's not sh*t writing just because it doesn't fit what you wanted, read all 100 star wars books and listen to all SW audio books, expand your mind a bit. Realise that not everything is the status quo, characters change, stories can go anywhere, you don't have to like any of it, but it doesn't make it bad writing or a bad film.

TFA was very much a mirror of New Hope. Thank gawd Rian did something different with the story and in many elements he kept it safe and easy as well...

Honestly, it's fine.

I think come the next film, people will be grateful we got something new and challenging in the middle.

It has already been explained why the writing is shit and it has to do with more than the dissapointment in how the characters were treated.

It was lazy lazy writing to set up dumb “twists” just to differentiate itself from other SW films.

Just my opnion you can argue all you want and other posters can fall back on “subtexts” and “inferring” key information to help develop the story.

Dumb dumb script writing

 

[Mootsy]

Dumb dumb script writing

Explain it then.

This is your opinion, but on paper the script is clever in many places, some characters lack backstory, yes! But we don't know if there is a future purpose behind that decision.

 

[Strange Cat]

Explain it then.

This is your opinion, but on paper the script is clever in many places, some characters lack backstory, yes! But we don't know if there is a future purpose behind that decision.

Read the last few pages , myself and others have outlined a few areas where the writing could had been better.

I’m not going over the same thing again

You like it, that’s fine

I ****ing hate it

Nothing going to change

 

[Mootsy]

Read the last few pages , myself and others have outlined a few areas where the writing could had been better.

I’m not going over the same thing again

Ok, that's fair.

 

[jerry springer]

watched it again, its a very,very average movie.

you can argue every different point, the biggest thing i was left with was zero anticipation for the next movie, I simply dont care what the next
chapter brings us

hope the kids do,im over it

 

[Strange Cat]

I just love how the pro side for this film outright rejects everything the negative side outlines or explains in regards to how the characters were badly written and key information being left out of the film .

And the pro side regards the views of the negative side as a result of a lack of intelligence or being too petty I.e emotional intelligence , infer and subtexts.

 

[Xtreme]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...he-worst-holds-of-all-9-star-wars-movies/amp/

OUCH

 

[Strange Cat]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...he-worst-holds-of-all-9-star-wars-movies/amp/

OUCH

“This is a matter of how well the film succeeds in meeting financial expectations, how well it fulfills the needs of the franchise, and whether it strengthens the Star Wars brand for future projects. By those measures, The Last Jedi already looks like a dud. ”

Ouch indeed

 

[exe ex machina]

Heads will roll. Changes will be made. Even tho on the surface Disney will spin/pretend everything is fine.

 

[Xtreme]

 

[Thrawn]

It's not sh*t writing just because it doesn't fit what you wanted, read all 100 star wars books and listen to all SW audio books, expand your mind a bit. Realise that not everything is the status quo, characters change, stories can go anywhere, you don't have to like any of it, but it doesn't make it bad writing or a bad film.

No, it's shit writing because the plot is weak. It doesn't go anywhere. A lot of it was pointless filler, prominent characters like Finn and Poe didn't even evolve as characters. Most importantly though, it seems to discard all the major plot points from the previous movie. As if TFA never even happened. That's why the writing is shit, if not anything else.

The cop-out of "stories can go anywhere" doesn't mean it makes it a good film either. It's like RJ changed things just for the sake of it.

 

[JackOutback]

They are "movie fans" not Star Wars fans.

Reading all these movie reviewers it stands out like a Great Danes balls that they know nothing about the Star Wars world itself.

I own pretty much every Star Wars novel there's is, been watching the films since 1980, reading the books since 92. I'm a fan. I also liked TLJ

My favourite comments are from those that say 'watched it a second time, it's still terrible'. That's why Disney don't care about this small minority, they still lap it up. Go watch it a third time and register more outrage.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I just love how the pro side for this film outright rejects everything the negative side outlines or explains in regards to how the characters were badly written and key information being left out of the film .

And the pro side regards the views of the negative side as a result of a lack of intelligence or being too petty I.e emotional intelligence , infer and subtexts.

This is false. Nobody in this thread thinks Holdo or the Finn/Rose storylines were good ideas or well executed.

However everyone in this thread bar you and Thrawn understood the context of the Luke standing over a sleeping Ben Solo scenes without needing someone to sit in the cinema next to them and explain what was going on.

The fact that you didn't get it is on you.

You can make an argument that we should have had more exposition on Snoke. That's fine even if it misses the point. If you feel that you didn't have enough information to understand the Luke and sleeping Ben Solo scene, it's because you have basic comprehension issues.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I just love how the pro side for this film outright rejects everything the negative side outlines or explains in regards to how the characters were badly written and key information being left out of the film .

And the pro side regards the views of the negative side as a result of a lack of intelligence or being too petty I.e emotional intelligence , infer and subtexts.

That's how social media discussions now go though... Only those who have a strong view bother to post.

For me I liked it but upfront need to state I am really easily moved by movies. I'm a bit simple.

 

[Thrawn]

I own pretty much every Star Wars novel there's is, been watching the films since 1980, reading the books since 92. I'm a fan. I also liked TLJ

I know hardcore SW fans who like it, and that's cool. But when one starts defending the god-awful obvious plotholes and the butchering of characters (or making them pointless)... it is reminiscent of hardcore SW fans defending Episode I just because it's a Star Wars movie.

 

[Thrawn]

However everyone in this thread bar you and Thrawn understood the context of the Luke standing over a sleeping Ben Solo scenes without needing someone to sit in the cinema next to them and explain what was going on.

There are plenty of people who agree with us on this count, so it's not just us two saying it here. So don't pretend otherwise, please.

It was a dumb character change. As Hamill put it, that's not Luke Skywalker, that's Jake Skywalker. I guess hedoesn't understand the "context" either (which is bizarre because you can't give context where it doesn't exist).

 

[JackOutback]

I know hardcore SW fans who like it, and that's cool. But when one starts defending the god-awful obvious plotholes and the butchering of characters (or making them pointless)... it is reminiscent of hardcore SW fans defending Episode I just because it's a Star Wars movie.

I think the people defending it are less hyperbolic than those slating it. Very few people are saying it's perfect but plenty are saying it's complete garbage. Neither are true.

But I will defend the treatment of Luke; I don't see it as butchering, I see it as a different take. I've read enough stories about wise Jedi Master Luke, I appreciated bitter, broken Luke. And I think appreciation for this film will increase as people separate themselves from the initial shock and see it for what it is.

 

[El_Scorcho]

There are plenty of people who agree with us on this count, so it's not just us two saying it here. So don't pretend otherwise, please.

It was a dumb character change. As Hamill put it, that's not Luke Skywalker, that's Jake Skywalker. I guess doesn't understand the "context" either (which is bizarre because you can't give context where it doesn't exist).

The context is knowing the characters over what is now 5 films.

This is the same Luke that struck out violently in anger at both the Emperor and Vader before stopping himself. This is a Luke who had been tempted by the dark side before and resisted. The momentary instinct to kill Ben Solo is completely in character, especially given that this was his apprentice and his failure.

We don't need hours of exposition on how Luke, Han and Leia dealt with the fall of Ben Solo. We already know how they'd deal with it. That wasn't what this movie was about.

Giving us that in detail would have ruined Kylo Ren's arc because it would have exposed too early that it was Ben catching Luke standing over him that completed his turn, that it was Luke's fault.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I thought they absolutely nailed Luke's character. Well written, well directed and most importantly a wonderful performance by Hamill.

 

[Thrawn]

This is the same Luke that struck out violently in anger at both the Emperor and Vader before stopping himself. This is a Luke who had been tempted by the dark side before and resisted. The momentary instinct to kill Ben Solo is completely in character, especially given that this was his apprentice and his failure.

This is the most disingenuous comment I've read on this thread. Please don't talk about context when we're provided with none about this situation.

First of all, Luke was in mortal danger, was scared out of his mind and was continuously taunted by Vader and Palpatine. With that much pressure on him, it wasn't that big of a surprise he would snap. There was a legitimate reason he did, it was explained. The context was there. Compare this to having him strike down Ben while he is peacefully sleeping... because reasons. He wasn't being toyed with, his loved ones weren't being threatened, he wasn't in mortal danger. He lashed out because he was paranoid. That's not the same Luke that fought against Vader on the Death Star.

We don't need hours of exposition on how Luke, Han and Leia dealt with the fall of Ben Solo. We already know how they'd deal with it. That wasn't what this movie was about.

No one's saying to devote a huge portion of the movie to something like that. A few lines of choice dialogue in a conversation would do. Otherwise, there's no context at all. The only explanation we're given is that Luke felt that he might do very, very bad things. That was his rationale. It's not well-written, it's sloppy and lazy writing.

Giving us that in detail would have ruined Kylo Ren's arc because it would have exposed too early that it was Ben catching Luke standing over him that completed his turn, that it was Luke's fault.

Luke's motivations being written in better is not going to ruin anything. It'd make the movie better.

I thought they absolutely nailed Luke's character.

Yep. Nailed to a cross.

 

[El_Scorcho]

This is the most disingenuous comment I've read on this thread. Please don't talk about context when we're provided with none about this situation.

First of all, Luke was in mortal danger, was scared out of his mind and was continuously taunted by Vader and Palpatine. With that much pressure on him, it wasn't that big of a surprise he would snap. There was a legitimate reason he did, it was explained. The context was there. Compare this to having him strike down Ben while he is peacefully sleeping... because reasons. He wasn't being toyed with, his loved ones weren't being threatened, he wasn't in mortal danger. He lashed out because he was paranoid. That's not the same Luke that fought against Vader on the Death Star.


No one's saying to devote a huge portion of the movie to something like that. A few lines of choice dialogue in a conversation would do. Otherwise, there's no context at all. The only explanation we're given is that Luke felt that he might do very, very bad things. That was his rationale. It's not well-written, it's sloppy and lazy writing.


Luke's motivations being written in better is not going to ruin anything. It'd make the movie better.


Yep. Nailed to a cross.

Firstly, Luke wasn't worried about being in danger or scared out of his mind on the Death Star. He actively went there of his own accord to try to redeem Vader. He snapped because he was taunted about his friends being killed by the Emperor and then snapped again because he was angry that Vader suggested trying to turn Leia. It looks like you've got some form for not understanding Luke's motivations.

We're provided with plenty of context.

Luke has started a Jedi Academy. His best pupil is Han and Leia's son. That pupil is falling to the Dark Side and he hasn't been able to control the situation and save Ben. He's failed his friends and family and the Jedi.

In an attempt to better understand Ben he goes to him while he is sleeping to read his thoughts and sees that the darkness within Ben is already too far gone. He's failed the Jedi and failed his family. In that split second he considers killing Ben to solve the problem before stopping himself.

How much more do you need? It's all there spelled out for you. Would you like it to have been on the opening scroll?

 

[Bostonian]

I thought they absolutely nailed Luke's character. Well written, well directed and most importantly a wonderful performance by Hamill.

Except Mark Hamill thought it was garbage writing and ****ed the legacy of Luke Skywalker over big time.

So funny how the person who should know the character better than anyone disagrees with you totally.

 

[JackOutback]

First of all, Luke was in mortal danger, was scared out of his mind and was continuously taunted by Vader and Palpatine. With that much pressure on him, it wasn't that big of a surprise he would snap. There was a legitimate reason he did, it was explained. The context was there. Compare this to having him strike down Ben while he is peacefully sleeping... because reasons. He wasn't being toyed with, his loved ones weren't being threatened, he wasn't in mortal danger. He lashed out because he was paranoid. That's not the same Luke that fought against Vader on the Death Star.

I think you're being a little disingenuous yourself. Luke didn't briefly think about striking him down because of 'reasons'. He knows the power of the dark side, he saw what it did to his father, he fears it. That instinctive fear of the dark side and the desiree to fight back completed Kylo's turn, completed his own failure and led to his isolation.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Except Mark Hamill thought it was garbage writing and ****** the legacy of Luke Skywalker over big time.

So funny how the person who should know the character better than anyone disagrees with you totally.

The person who should know the character better than anyone is George Lucas, who was responsible for creating and developing the character.

George Lucas had envisaged that the sequel trilogy would have Luke basically as he appears in TLJ, going to a dark place, secluding himself then reluctantly training a new Jedi.

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/