Movie Star Wars: The Last Jedi. - THREAD PART 1 - *SPOILERS and RUMORS* - Cont. in Part 2

[Summer Nights]

I’d rather read Thrawn insights that the dribble you write on here.

“Emotional intelligence”.

Says more about you and the company you keep. How many times have you used the “Luke the creepy uncle standing over Kylo” line in order to make a stupid point? I’ve counted three times without trying. It’s cringey as ****.

 

[Mootsy]

You haven’t watched the multiple interviews online where he slams the poorly written Luke?

Really? He would had been told to pull back or be in danger of being blacklisted .

He certainly questions Luke’s story but he doesn’t slam it as poorly written.

He mostly complains about his cliffhanger moment in TFA.

I think he wanted to be introduced earlier, during the forest scene in TFA.

He’s annoyed that he didn’t get to meet Han and Chewie.

In the TLJ Rian tried to write all those wrongs, Luke actually meets Leia again and chewie and r2 who then shows the hologram and then c3po and he saves the day at the end in epic fashion. He even gets a scene where he gets the gold dice from the falcon and hands it to Leia later on.

Luke was mostly annoyed about TFA treatment not TLJ.

He then admits during interviews that it’s not his story anymore and he can’t just be the hero all the time.

He says he disagreed with Rian, but then he thanked him for taking his ideas and being open and collaborative enough and that it’s not Hamills movie, it’s Rian’s story.

So basically Luke being wary of the Jedi taking people to the dark side has made him cautious and careful, he’s very zen and well considered in TLJ, not just trying to be the obvious hero, he’s more thoughtful now.

He’s grumpy yoda now, which makes sense because that’s always been his persona, so he’s not the main character now and he’s allowed to be bitter about the Jedi turning people the wrong way if he wants to.

To dismiss a film based on these reasons.

 

[Strange Cat]

Says more about you and the company you keep. How many times have you used the “Luke the creepy uncle standing over Kylo” line in order to make a stupid point? I’ve counted three times without trying. It’s cringey as ****.

Poor dear do you need a hug?

Make sure you don’t get one from a creepy uncle.

 

[Xtreme]

Behave or you'll be forced to watch the Star Wars Christmas special!

 

[King Elvis]

It's ridiculous because there's no explanation of how they took over the galaxy so quickly, despite losing a weapon like that. Losing the death star for example was a big setback to the Empire, because it stopped them from crushing the Rebellion. However, we were well aware that they were governing the galaxy at the time. In this new trilogy we know next to nothing about the FO.

And by the same logic you're using, a galaxy-spanning Republic wouldn't suddenly be defeated from losing one system. They'd have the resources to recoup their losses and build a sizable fleet. And that's the thing, really, the writing is so piss-poor that we don't get an answer to that. It isn't shown. There's no reference point to use.

I don’t really remember the TFA plot -I’d legit forgotten about Starkiller base.

And the fact that these movies are supposed to be directly one after the other, I can’t see hw people dispute the massive gaps.

Rian appears to have just completely ignored the bulk of TFA.

This movie is a piece of shit - I hope they pretend it never existed. They removed a shitlosd of awesome EU from canon; please do the same here.

 

[King Elvis]

Although I think the score is good, and has a few good pieces, especially 'The Spark', it is very dissapointing compared to the previous films. I think even Rogue Ones score is better. The music from Star Wars is probably my favourite thing about the movies, but TLJ suffered because it was mainly re-used music and themes from previous movies, with a few new, but not-memorable pieces.

But the main reason is this I believe: A quote from Rian Johnson about how the score was made. Very dissapointing from RJ and almost disrespectful to John Williams. Lucas, and even Abrams always went and had discussions with JW about the concepts and ideas they want in the score. Rian has pretty much gone up to Williams and said 'here you go, make the music'.
View attachment 447223

That’s unbelievable.

 

[exe ex machina]

I don’t really remember the TFA plot -I’d legit forgotten about Starkiller base.

And the fact that these movies are supposed to be directly one after the other, I can’t see hw people dispute the massive gaps.

Rian appears to have just completely ignored the bulk of TFA.

This movie is a piece of shit - I hope they pretend it never existed. They removed a shitlosd of awesome EU from canon; please do the same here.

That's another good point about Rian heckin'g over JJ's set ups.
Not once in TLJ was SKB even mentioned in a conversation or in passing between characters.
It's like everything that TFA established, RJ ignored.
Also consider there'd be a section of LFL (story group employees, book authors, animation work, etc etc) where all the stuff TFA set up for ongoing canon books, etc, was being advanced upon. But now TLJ just forced re-writes galore. Some real head-scratching decision-making by Kennedy most of all thruout this period.

 

[Strange Cat]

He certainly questions Luke’s story but he doesn’t slam it as poorly written.

He mostly complains about his cliffhanger moment in TFA.

I think he wanted to be introduced earlier, during the forest scene in TFA.

He’s annoyed that he didn’t get to meet Han and Chewie.

In the TLJ Rian tried to write all those wrongs, Luke actually meets Leia again and chewie and r2 who then shows the hologram and then c3po and he saves the day at the end in epic fashion. He even gets a scene where he gets the gold dice from the falcon and hands it to Leia later on.

Luke was mostly annoyed about TFA treatment not TLJ.

He then admits during interviews that it’s not his story anymore and he can’t just be the hero all the time.

He says he disagreed with Rian, but then he thanked him for taking his ideas and being open and collaborative enough and that it’s not Hamills movie, it’s Rian’s story.

So basically Luke being wary of the Jedi taking people to the dark side has made him cautious and careful, he’s very zen and well considered in TLJ, not just trying to be the obvious hero, he’s more thoughtful now.

He’s grumpy yoda now, which makes sense because that’s always been his persona, so he’s not the main character now and he’s allowed to be bitter about the Jedi turning people the wrong way if he wants to.

To dismiss a film based on these reasons, my opinion?? Get a life!

Charming

Nice rant by the way, don’t agree with any of it but kudos for you for telling me to get a life.

I don’t see anyone being that aggressive towards your opinions.

 

[King Elvis]

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-luc..._medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_2350063



The main thrust of the story of TLJ came from the mind of George Lucas.

Where is your god now?

Except it didnt; you’re own link states he had a concept, and they completely changed it.

That’s it. That’s all we’re talking really, just a couple of extra lines. It’s all it would’ve taken to provide the depth required to explain why Luke did what he did.

Call it exposition if you will, I don’t think that implies the audience is stupid at all. Not for a moment.

For example, when he’s talking to Rey, even an additional line like “he wouldn’t even listen to Leia when she reached out to him” (or something along those lines) would’ve been very significant.

It shows that Luke did in fact share his concerns with Ben’s parents (who you’d think are in a much more conducive position to influence him). And would help clear up this ‘he tried everything’ assumption.

Instead, it’s left with a very subjective view that is completely open to interpretation. I keep hearing about subtext, but there’s two sides to that. The other side is that Luke went to murder his nephew in his sleep when he suspected things weren’t going to plan. Sounds pretty shit when it’s said that bluntly.

One extra line or two. That’s it. Just a few seconds really. In a 152 minute film, I don’t think that’s an unreasonable point of frustration.

The way I see it, Luke didn’t try anything.

He had a concern, went to check it out, and then almost murdered his nephew.

As a result, he went into hiding, due to the effective betrayal of Han and Leia.

Problem is, it doesn’t make that clear - and it is completely contradictory to everything’s Luke was.

 

[Strange Cat]

Except it didnt; you’re own link states he had a concept, and they completely changed it.



The way I see it, Luke didn’t try anything.

He had a concern, went to check it out, and then almost murdered his nephew.

As a result, he went into hiding, due to the effective betrayal of Han and Leia.

Problem is, it doesn’t make that clear - and it is completely contradictory to everything’s Luke was.

Subtexts mannnn subtexts

That’s all you’ll get shouted back at you for questioning the writing.

 

[Coolangatta]

I was disappointed in The Last Jedi, but some of the comments online about it are just pathetic. This is what they sound like:

 

[Strange Cat]

I was disappointed in The Last Jedi, but some of the comments online about it are just pathetic. This is what they sound like:

Sounds like it was written by RJ

 

[Janus]

AGAIN it’s not even shown or explained in the film, you may think it’s perfectly fine for the writer to rely on the audience to create a backstory. But the fact that they wrote this character up who bears no resemblance to the Luke from the OT, we can’t even assume if this character would had done all those things . This character choices are illogical based on the possibility that his nephew may go to the dark side, based on sensing the darkness in him.

No dialogue or scenes about any intervention which again would only take a line to add, so instead we get this Character going from being concerned to sneaking into his nephew room in he middle of the night to stand over him
And kill him.

It makes no sense for Luke to do so..none and he amount of people online and in this thread saying so shows that it’s not a compression issue, it’s clearly a backlash to how the character was written and the poor writing to explain why he chose this creepy and illogical method to intervene in Ben’s contact with Snoke.

You do know that scene - both Kylo’s version and Luke’s version - is told from their own perspective of what happened, right? Why would Luke, who blames himself for Ben’s turn, give himself the out of saying he tried everything he could when he feels he didn’t? Of course he’s going to paint himself in the worst possible light because of his guilt and shame.

I know what the issue is. You want Star Wars to be black and white. And in open conflict, it is. But as Von Clausewitz says, “War is a continuation of politics by other means.” And politics - which is the art of maintaining relationships between groups of different perspectives - is grey...which is the whole point.

 

[Strange Cat]

You do know that scene - both Kylo’s version and Luke’s version - is told from their own perspective of what happened, right? Why would Luke, who blames himself for Ben’s turn, give himself the out of saying he tried everything he could when he feels he didn’t? Of course he’s going to paint himself in the worst possible light because of his guilt and shame.

I know what the issue is. You want Star Wars to be black and white. And in open conflict, it is. But as Von Clausewitz says, “War is a continuation of politics by other means.” And politics - which is the art of maintaining relationships between groups of different perspectives - is grey...which is the whole point.

No you haven’t addressed my issue at all, it would had taken one or two lines at the most for Luke or someone to state that measures were taken to intervene in the “corruption” of Ben.

However, the writing and the film showed that he or anyone else didn’t try anything other than Luke looking into his mind and decided to kill him while sleeping.

Like Hamill and many others have said, it made no sense in regards to Luke’s character and it was a very lazy writing so they could have the “twist” they wanted.

 

[King Elvis]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...-worst-ever-for-a-star-wars-pic/#230c9c0157fa


The box office numbers for the second Friday of Star Wars: The Last Jedi are in and they paint a bleak picture for the Rian Johnson-directed sequel. Down 77 percent from its opening day last Friday, the picture continues to distinguish itself as the worst holding film in the Star Wars franchise's entire nine-film history.

From its opening day gross of $104.7 million, The Last Jedicratered by a full $80 million, taking in $24.6 million a week later, on its second Friday.

The biggest prior Friday-to-Friday decline was that of Rogue One: A Star Wars story, at a comparatively robust 68 percent. The three previous films before that, Episode VII: The Force Awakens, Episode II: Attack of the Clones, and Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, all saw declines in the mid-50's percentage range. Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Episode III: The Phantom Menace, and Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, all saw far more modest declines in the 20-30 percent range, and the first film, Episode IV: A New Hope, actually increased by nearly 80 percent in its second weekend as the franchise exploded into being (hence the negative 79 percent "decline" shown on the chart below. I should note also that I don't have access to daily box numbers for episodes IV and V, so I substituted their full weekend numbers in the chart).

Pacific Bridge data
Friday-to-Friday declines





A few quibbles about the comparisons between films are warranted, as some of the pictures—including The Last Jedi—have Thursday evening preview numbers included in their opening Friday results, making the second Friday a tough comp. And some of the other pictures opened on Wednesdays or Thursdays, so their first Friday-to-second Friday comparisons aren't quite apples-to-apples with The Last Jedi.

But even after adjusting for such differences, The Last Jedistill manages to live up to its title, sitting in last place as the Star Wars picture least capable of holding its audience. Or perhaps more pointedly, in failing to bring moviegoers back for multiple viewings. As Miles Bailey, a formerly fervent fan of the Star Wars films told me, “Disney shouldn’t bank on the hardcore, cosplay, convention crew like myself seeing this film 6, 7, 8, 9 times. Episode 8: The Last Jedi set out to kill everything about episodes 1-7 and succeeded. I’m not excited by Solo or episode 9. Star Wars is done for me.”


With reactions like that, Disney (NYSEIS) will need to re-think its strategy for future installments if it hopes to retain a meaningful share of its potential Star Wars audience. As things are going now, The Last Jedi is drifting further away from The Force Awakens' numbers and closer to a Rogue One sized lifetime gross, a result that would be truly catastrophic given the opportunity lost for the new film and its potential impact on the franchise's future prospects.

Disney are like the morons who buy a successful restaurant, pay a fortune for it, and them change everything about it; and wonder why they can’t replicate the success of the previous owners, and it’s a disaster.

Star Wars is Luke, Leia and Han; then Vader, Obi Wan, Yoda, Lando etc.

Simple as that.

They took all of that, and pissed it away; they’ve bought Star Wars and then changed it into something not recognisable as Star Wars.

Rogue One had a massive rewrite, didn’t it?

How the hell did this piece of shit make it to release?

 

[Strange Cat]

How the hell did this piece of shit make it to release?

Too much faith in RJ would be my guess, they wanted something different and forgot to look at the script with common sense in relation to how it follows on what TFA set up in the previous film.

Either that or all the posters/people that don’t like it are morons who don’t understand subtexts

 

[Coolangatta]

Sounds like it was written by RJ

Take out Canto Bight and Leia Mary Poppins and it would easily be in the top 3 best Star Wars movies despite some flaws in the comic timing. I've seen people say the movie sucks because Snoke dies or Rey's parents are nobody but they aren't valid complaints, they're just story decisions that not everyone agrees with. Doesn't make it a bad film. While it's true that RJ could've explained more, the brilliance of that guys satire about the OT is that they didn't explain much either because that's the classical storytelling method - show, don't tell. I think there was an opportunity for Luke to mention something more about Snoke when he mentions him on the island, but otherwise I totally agree with what RJ said about how stupid it would've been if he just started telling Rey about how he's Darth Plagueis or whatever. The audience should only know what the characters want to, or need to know, as much as it may frustrate them.

 

[Strange Cat]

Take out Canto Bight and Leia Mary Poppins and it would easily be in the top 3 best Star Wars movies despite some flaws in the comic timing. I've seen people say the movie sucks because Snoke dies or Rey's parents are nobody but they aren't valid complaints, they're just story decisions that not everyone agrees with. Doesn't make it a bad film. While it's true that RJ could've explained more, the brilliance of that guys satire about the OT is that they didn't explain much either because that's the classical storytelling method - show, don't tell. I think there was an opportunity for Luke to mention something about Snoke when he mentions him on the island, but otherwise I totally agree with what RJ said about how stupid it would've been if he just started telling Rey about how he's Darth Plagueis or whatever. The audience should only know what the characters want to, or need to know, as much as it may frustrate them.

That’s the beauty of having an opnion I guess

I don’t disparage others for liking it, all the power to them.

But it has been pointed out that the dislike comes from more than some of the character choices being disliked. The writing was shocking, the plot made no sense and some of the set ups from TFA wasn’t followed through.

Disagree with my opnion all you want but don’t just put it down to a dislike with how the characters were handled, that’s one aspect of my gripes with the film.

 

[Janus]

No you haven’t addressed my issue at all, it would had taken one or two lines at the most for Luke or someone to state that measures were taken to intervene in the “corruption” of Ben.

However, the writing and the film showed that he or anyone else didn’t try anything other than Luke looking into his mind and decided to kill him while sleeping.

Like Hamill and many others have said, it made no sense in regards to Luke’s character and it was a very lazy writing so they could have the “twist” they wanted.

It’s fantastic writing once you get over the idea that what you’re seeing is the actual truth of what happened and Luke’s version is one clouded by guilt and shame.

Luke says that he saw him going to the dark side in training. You shouldn’t need a line saying that he tried to pull him back. That is a given, based on his character. And you shouldn’t need a line saying that Ben had almost killed a fellow student or did something equally heinous that day, which is why Luke went to confront him that night in the first place. It’s implied. Besides, Luke isn’t trying to give an excuse to Rey. He’s not telling her the story of why or how Ben turned. He’s telling the story of THAT night, from the perspective of a Jedi Master who failed his student.

The only people who don’t think it makes sense are the people who can’t appreciate that emotion clouds more than just judgement. That everything has to be black and white. Luke blamed himself so he’s going to tell the story in a manner that paints him in the worst possible light. How hard is that to understand? He probably did try to reach out, just like Leia. But why would he tell Rey that? As he says, Leia blamed Snoke, but he felt it was his failure that was to blame.

 

[Coolangatta]

That’s the beauty of having an opnion I guess

I don’t disparage others for liking it, all the power to them.

But it has been pointed out that the dislike comes from more than some of the character choices being disliked. The writing was shocking, the plot made no sense and some of the set ups from TFA wasn’t followed through.

Disagree with my opnion all you want but don’t just put it down to a dislike with how the characters were handled, that’s one aspect of my gripes with the film.

When you say set ups, do you mean the map? It was BB-8 that woke up R2-D2 on the base, explaining that he had the rest of the map. R2 didn't even have all of it because Luke didn't want to be found. Lor went hunting around for the last piece, anything connecting to the location of the first temple cause as Han says that was the rumour about where Luke was going. Maybe Luke left the possibility of being found open in case of an emergency, but we assumed it was because he was waiting for the right time to be a hero again. Thing is, as much as we might not like how Luke just went there to die, it was JJ who decided to put him there in the first place cause of Disney and their crap about the OT not overshadowing the new characters. There's your number one problem there - the passing the torch thing would probably screw over even the best of writers from coming up with something brilliant.

 

[Strange Cat]

It’s fantastic writing once you get over the idea that what you’re seeing is the actual truth of what happened and Luke’s version is one clouded by guilt and shame.

Luke says that he saw him going to the dark side in training. You shouldn’t need a line saying that he tried to pull him back. That is a given, based on his character. And you shouldn’t need a line saying that Ben had almost killed a fellow student or did something equally heinous that day, which is why Luke went to confront him that night in the first place. It’s implied. Besides, Luke isn’t trying to give an excuse to Rey. He’s not telling her the story of why or how Ben turned. He’s telling the story of THAT night, from the perspective of a Jedi Master who failed his student.

The only people who don’t think it makes sense are the people who can’t appreciate that emotion clouds more than just judgement. That everything has to be black and white. Luke blamed himself so he’s going to tell the story in a manner that paints him in the worst possible light. How hard is that to understand? He probably did try to reach out, just like Leia. But why would he tell Rey that? As he says, Leia blamed Snoke, but he felt it was his failure that was to blame.

You are adding context to a scene that wasn’t stated or shown anywhere to disguise how poorly written the script was.

AGAIN

I.e assumptions

 

[Janus]

You are adding context to a scene that wasn’t stated or shown anywhere to disguise how poorly written the script was.

AGAIN

I.e assumptions

You really need your hand held with this? When you said yourself it’s not in Luke’s character to do what he did?

If it’s not in his character, guess what? It didn’t go down the way he is telling the story! It’s just his emotions that are clouding his recollection of events.

The point of that scene isn’t to tell what happened. It’s to relate how much Luke blamed himself for what happened, and why he swore he’d never teach another generation of Jedi.

 

[edgie]

Too much faith in RJ would be my guess, they wanted something different and forgot to look at the script with common sense in relation to how it follows on what TFA set up in the previous film.

Either that or all the posters/people that don’t like it are morons who don’t understand subtexts

An awkward blend of giving the director reign to be different after the TFA feedback mixed with also having to adhere to studio non negotiables.

I think RJ will be right with the anthology films but this was a mess ignorant of experienced guidance.

Sent from mTalk

 

[Summer Nights]

I put "reasons" because I treated it with the contempt it deserves. He did it because he was paranoid. At that stage Ben was a kid who didn't commit genocide on a galactic scale.

Yoda said it best himself:

Did you people not watch the OT at all? So basically, Luke's motivation to kill him was based on a maybe. As I said, horrible, horrible writing.

It was a split-second instinctive behaviour. It’s like wanting to punch an arrogant Carlton supporter, pulling your fist back then stopping yourself when you realise they can’t help being who they are and that despite the intense desire, it would be wrong. Luke is a human first, Jedi second.

 

[Tuco]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...he-worst-holds-of-all-9-star-wars-movies/amp/

OUCH

TLJ is basically The Hobbit. Not what people really wanted...scrapes in over a billion.

I still think TLJ will do $1.2b. Not that the dollars have much to do with the quality.