Divide and Diminish - the AFL's failed Decade in QLD

[Tassie4ever]

I know the choice was clubhouse or second field lights, but you can't drink in the middle of a field.... well you can but it is frowned upon in polite society.

If the impressive Jags club leadership continues then a better facility will follow. Unfortunately there simply isn't enough space to do anything substantial.

I was at Kenmore a couple of weeks ago and the number of Auskick kids there was equally encouraging. Great signs for our game.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[Paul_D]

Interesting article. Much more of an Editorial style to it, but there's nothing wrong with that. Some really good historical information there.

That said, I'd suggest that an article looking at the cause for Brisbane's woes and not considering loss of talent (teenagers returning to parents, unfair trading rules resulting in low compensation) is missing something major. Particularly noting that first round talent has a significantly higher return-home rate than other rounds of draftees - I'd suggest due to higher confidence in their desirability given their status as a high pick. Not to mention the well-known frequency with which Vic/SA/WA clubs deliberately try to lure interstate draftees back to their home states.

That's a good point, I'll have a look more at where our draftees have wound up since 2010, but I daresay you're right. Teams are trying to pick the eyes out of our list.

Just on the state of AFL footy in QLD, the game is so healthy at a local level, there are more and more clubs popping up everywhere. The number of kids playing AFL in schools has increased 20 fold in my time. I am not willing to blame the AFL for anything. Our club woes are due to poor management and a lack of process in the selection of the senior coach. You make your own bed in this world.

I may need to make it clearer in the article - but I don't have any issues with grassroots AFL in this state, it's in great shape. Both at juniors and masters level. This is purely a problem at the elite level. In other articles I've written I dwelt on how the Lions made their own bed, this is more a look at the economics of the competition and how the two Queensland clubs are being held down on the bottom of the ladder now and will remain down, in part of because of bad decisions they made in the past to get them there, but also due to circumstances around player access and movement that will deny them the tools they need to climb out of the cellar.

Would love to see whether the rate of support for the Lions at Brisbane Auskick and jnr football level has decreased over this tough period. During my time as a jnr through our golden era, I’d say there were more interstate supporters than Lions supporters despite all being Queenslanders.

Great article- outlook is not so gloomy for mine but lots of good points and the first super long post on BF I could get through without being bored

I don't believe it has, and I would agree too that anecdotally a lot of the new fans coming in are from interstate. Glad you found it interesting.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Not sure if this gets discussed much but I have always been baffled that the Suns were seemingly created out of nothing when Southport have been around for decades, are hugely successful and have a pretty big membership base. Apparently they have been bidding to join the AFL since the 90s as well. Seems like a kick in the teeth to a well established base of Aussie Rules fans in a League dominated state.

Because only about 1% of their membership would have any interest in their football team. They’re also regarded with little fondness by the rest of the Gold Coast football fraternity.

 

[spotthedog1]

Also, if you're looking for a live example of the difficulty of luring players interstate, the problem with the trading rules, and the problem of 2 year contracts all at once, Matt Kennedy was a perfect example just last year. Drafted 2015, two years in, requested trade. Of course, as with most second year players, he wasn't fully developed, and depreciated from pick 13, 2015, down to pick 28, 2017.

It was reported a couple of times that GWS reached a preliminary agreement with Brisbane, happy with our trade offer. At the time, Carlton's offer was not acceptable to GWS. We approached Kennedy and put a good contract in front of him (reportedly better than Carlton's). He refused the trade, accepting less $ at Carlton. GWS accepted a different offer from Carlton (it wasn't confirmed what our offer to GWS was, so we can't be sure whether Carlton increased their offer to equivalent to ours, or whether GWS simply had to lower their ask or risk losing Kennedy to the draft. Our picks in the area were a bit higher, but its possible there were other swaps, etc).

 

[briztoon]

Tassie, i played in that irregular competition and i was fortunate enough to watch Michael Voss as a junior being a couple of years younger than him and playing at Morningside. I can assure you, actually i can guarantee you that there wasn't 3 better players in the universe than Michael Voss as an underage footballer. To this day, i doubt there has been a junior footballer dominate the game like Voss did. I can't remember the last time a midfielder kicked 14 goals in a Teal Cup equivalent game. The bloke was a genius.

Just on the state of AFL footy in QLD, the game is so healthy at a local level, there are more and more clubs popping up everywhere. The number of kids playing AFL in schools has increased 20 fold in my time. I am not willing to blame the AFL for anything. Our club woes are due to poor management and a lack of process in the selection of the senior coach. You make your own bed in this world.

Which schools play AFL, and is/are their inter school competition/s?

 

[luthor]

Because only about 1% of their membership would have any interest in their football team. They’re also regarded with little fondness by the rest of the Gold Coast football fraternity.

I can't claim any great insight into Gold Coast footy loyalties/politics but I've always had the impression that Southport were/are the "Collingwood" of the GC based clubs

Would it be fair to say that granting Southport an AFL licence (rather than a generic "Gold Coast" team) would be tantamount to Port Adelaide having been admitted to the AFL before a more widely accepted "Adelaide" team?

If I remember correctly, Port did in fact push hard to get the first South Australian AFL licence but were rejected in favour of what the AFL believed would be a less divisive or perhaps more accurately, a more inclusive and unifying "Adelaide" entity

 

[Paul_D]

Also, if you're looking for a live example of the difficulty of luring players interstate, the problem with the trading rules, and the problem of 2 year contracts all at once, Matt Kennedy was a perfect example just last year. Drafted 2015, two years in, requested trade. Of course, as with most second year players, he wasn't fully developed, and depreciated from pick 13, 2015, down to pick 28, 2017.

It was reported a couple of times that GWS reached a preliminary agreement with Brisbane, happy with our trade offer. At the time, Carlton's offer was not acceptable to GWS. We approached Kennedy and put a good contract in front of him (reportedly better than Carlton's). He refused the trade, accepting less $ at Carlton. GWS accepted a different offer from Carlton (it wasn't confirmed what our offer to GWS was, so we can't be sure whether Carlton increased their offer to equivalent to ours, or whether GWS simply had to lower their ask or risk losing Kennedy to the draft. Our picks in the area were a bit higher, but its possible there were other swaps, etc).

I wasn't aware of that. Great example, I'm gonna incorporate that. There's quite a lot of Carlton fans on the site I write at so this should give their ant nest a good kicking, and it is a great illustration.

I really appreciate all these points. I want to try and capture everything there is to be said about what a cluster* elite level AFL is up here and will remain for some time - and don't mistake that for me desiring it to be so either, I would dearly love to be wrong but I don't think I will be - and these little additions are really going to improve the overall piece.

Re: Southport, the only mistake the AFL made there was not utilising one very small part of that organisation - they should have called their new venture the Gold Coast Sharks rather than the Suns, IMO

 

[dlanod]

Re: Southport, the only mistake the AFL made there was not utilising one very small part of that organisation - they should have called their new venture the Gold Coast Sharks rather than the Suns, IMO

Probably would've been sued for trademark infringement if they'd attempted that though.

 

[luthor]

Re: Southport, the only mistake the AFL made there was not utilising one very small part of that organisation - they should have called their new venture the Gold Coast Sharks rather than the Suns, IMO

Do you really think the branding would have made such a difference though?

Apart from that ,I'm wondering about using a brand name without compromising control and other intellectual property issues?

The AFL is big on running the show, not on the show running it.

 

[luthor]

Probably would've been sued for trademark infringement if they'd attempted that though.

Yeah...beat me too it.....but more eloquently.

 

[Paul_D]

See, I know they'd have started a huge shitstorm with the NRL if they'd done it - to which I say, bring it on

What better way to start a huge bonfire of support under a new team on the Gold Coast getting sued by some pissant mob down at Sutherland back in 2011 who at this stage haven't won a flag since Holt went for a swim, when the 'Sharks' moniker has been in use on the coast since 1983?

This isn't Port Adelaide trying to enter the AFL as the magpies, where one already exists - it's a totally different code. I think they took the lame, marketing decision and squibbed it.

 

[POBT]

Gold Coast Southport Sharks has been a registered trademark of the Southport Footy Club since 2008.

 

[Paul_D]

Money solves problems like that within your own code

They were called the magpies till 1983. I'm sure they could be persuaded to let it go.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Money solves problems like that within your own code

They were called the magpies till 1983. I'm sure they could be persuaded to let it go.

Wasn't there a Brisbane Lions soccer club at the time of the merger?

 

[dlanod]

See, I know they'd have started a huge shitstorm with the NRL if they'd done it - to which I say, bring it on

What better way to start a huge bonfire of support under a new team on the Gold Coast getting sued by some pissant mob down at Sutherland back in 2011 who at this stage haven't won a flag since Holt went for a swim, when the 'Sharks' moniker has been in use on the coast since 1983?

This isn't Port Adelaide trying to enter the AFL as the magpies, where one already exists - it's a totally different code. I think they took the lame, marketing decision and squibbed it.

I wasn't referring to Cronulla (and indeed they were so far off my mind I was struggling to figure out who you were talking about), I was referring to Southport who were a bit pissed at that time because they expected to be at least part of the Gold Coast AFL club despite, as mentioned by others, affiliation (or appeared affiliation with the same name) would have alienated a fair chunk of the rest of the Gold Coast AFL community.

 

[dlanod]

Wasn't there a Brisbane Lions soccer club at the time of the merger?

Yep, though IIRC they weren't exactly a powerhouse unlike Southport.

 

[marooned]

Which schools play AFL, and is/are their inter school e competition/s?

My kids schools play afl intra school comp.As well as regular games through the season as build up to Q cup competetion.They have 1st team and development team, the seconds.Also have a girls team.

 

[Paul_D]

I wasn't referring to Cronulla (and indeed they were so far off my mind I was struggling to figure out who you were talking about), I was referring to Southport who were a bit pissed at that time because they expected to be at least part of the Gold Coast AFL club despite, as mentioned by others, affiliation (or appeared affiliation with the same name) would have alienated a fair chunk of the rest of the Gold Coast AFL community.

Really? I don't know, not after the AFL sprung for a new clubhouse or a venue upgrade or something as part of the deal for getting the Sharks name off them. Kerry Packer was usually correct on matters money related, and I think his quote to the ACB - "There is a bit of the whore in all of us gentlemen - what is your price?" is very illustrative. We are talking a huge outfit with lots of money vs a minnow with much less money. Can we just agree that if the AFL had wanted it to happen they'd have made it happen and leave it at that?

 

[POBT]

A seven figure sum has been mentioned as the cost to buy the “Lions” name from the local soccer club. Not sure how true that is but it’s a significant amount. You’d want to make sure the branding benefits were worth it.

 

[blynd_freddie]

A seven figure sum has been mentioned as the cost to buy the “Lions” name from the local soccer club. Not sure how true that is but it’s a significant amount. You’d want to make sure the branding benefits were worth it.

Is that why they call it Richlands?

 

[We are go for green]

Great article Paul,

Obviously a passionate supporter of AFL.

My thought on AFL in Qld.

Continuously schedule block buster games here.
ie. Bombers v pies, blues v pies, cats v Hawks etc etc

Don't rely on the marketing ability of the Lions or Suns.
Show case the best the AFL has on offer on a regular basis so Queenslanders can see what our great game truely is.

Just a thought

 

[Albi_Mangler]

Perfect timing for the release of your article. Just to reinforce most of the points -

I actually went to the Suns game yesterday at the Gabba. I accompanied a family of four who prior to a few years ago were Lions supporters and would attend occasional games. They live on GC now and are season Suns members. They gave me and my son free tickets as the Suns members were offered two free guests for this game - obviously to try and get more bums on seats.

I also went with another family of Lions fans who were also there for free, with tickets provided to AFLQ Juniors. How many people attended this game for free I wonder?

The attendance was abysmal from a Suns perspective. About 6400 - lowest ever for an AFL game. I would estimate more than half were Demons supporters. So less than 3000 Suns supporters on a perfect Saturday afternoon were willing to travel less than an hour to watch their team.

The Suns days are numbered IMO and will be yet another failed GC sporting team. It has never been clearer to me that their introduction has crippled AFL in Qld - divided support, diluted talent and funding and worst of all given AFL in Qld the 'losers' stink that will take a long time to reverse.

 

[Albi_Mangler]

Great article Paul,

Obviously a passionate supporter of AFL.

My thought on AFL in Qld.

Continuously schedule block buster games here.
ie. Bombers v pies, blues v pies, cats v Hawks etc etc

Don't rely on the marketing ability of the Lions or Suns.
Show case the best the AFL has on offer on a regular basis so Queenslanders can see what our great game truely is.

Just a thought

This is total rubbish. It works for NRL because the sport is ingrained in the culture. The only thing Qlders want is a winning successful QLD team.

Seriously you must be a Victorian if you think this is what we want.

AFL to Qlders "Hey you guys suck, here is the Victorian teams to show you how to play our game" SMH

 

[Du_key]

Teams that win 3 in a row are always going to have kids flock to them. Problem is that was 2001-03. Primary school kids are now in their mid twenties and they haven't seen a decent team since they were 18... Now they are able to make the decision to come to the games and buy memberships and for a lot of them all they've seen is pretty ordinary football. Nobody talks about the lions any more, the last player most people know retired 4 years ago.

For a lot of intents and purposes we're a expansion team right now.

 

[We are go for green]

This is total rubbish. It works for NRL because the sport is ingrained in the culture. The only thing Qlders want is a winning successful QLD team.

Seriously you must be a Victorian if you think this is what we want.

AFL to Qlders "Hey you guys suck, here is the Victorian teams to show you how to play our game" SMH

Hi Albi,

Sorry if I offended you. It wasn't my intention. I'm actually a Queenslander myself.

My thinking of showcasing block busters here are for a few reasons;

a) it's arrogant to think everyone in Queensland follow Queensland sides
b) it's broadening the market of a brand, no different to playing in Tasmania, China or New Zealand
c) it's not state of origin and the thinking that Queensland want a good Queensland team is narrow minded
d) I'd imagine that Queenslanders just want a good competitive sport (just my open minded thoughts)