News Crows Press Conference - The Fallout Continues *now with poll*

[FR0GGY]

"The right people in the right seats."

That's going to haunt Fages forever. A total failure in that regard has seen the demise of the club.

Maybe Fagans seat should be a back one or one at a different table.

 

[Scorpus]

Mark Williams has been told players were tied to trees naked with rope

 

[Elite Crow]

Mark Williams has been told players were tied to trees naked with rope

TAFKATMS ??

 

[mulz]

Choco said that if they said what they said to Sauce to him he would of smashed them over the head with a chair

 

[Cleric]

Waiting for the Crows Defence Force to comment that Williams hates the Crows and would make anything up to rubbish us.
Williams wouldnt know anyone who knows what happened at the camp.

 

[bates121]

I would love for a journo - just one journo, of the many in the profession - to ask some genuine, specific, hard questions of senior Crows staff. Things like:

"Did Don Pyke bring back Collective Mind, or anyone associated with or employed at Collective Mind, mid way through the 2018 season?"

"Are there any Crows players in dispute with the club over contractual issues arising from the camp?"

"Did the Crows chief medical offer pen a letter to club officials regarding the camp? What was in that letter?"

"Why would Josh Francou prefer to teach children than coach at AFL level at the Crows? What was in Francou's letter to management regarding the camp and related issues?"

"Who was the highest ranking official involved with hiring Collective Mind? Was it Brett Burton? Or was it board level? If it was board level, who was directly involved with scrutinizing/making the decision? Which board members?"

"I have a list of all 45 current Crows players in front of me here. I'm going to read off each one, and I want you to tell me whether they brought up any issues at all regarding the pre-season camp. A simple yes/no will suffice."

"Why exactly is Mitch McGovern no longer a suitable fit at the Adelaide Crows after signing a 3 year contract extension at the end of 2017?"

"Did any staff members at the Crows apologize to the players over the camp and injury concerns? Who apologized specifically? Was the apology well received, or were there further complaints?"

I have no doubt there are journos lining up to ask these very questions but who are you asking? The senior Crows staff are not answering these questions, they haven't all year. Who do you expect to get any answers from exactly?

Our only hope to ever find out what happened is for an ex player/coach to go rogue and spill all. I would say that is were Caro has gotten most of her stuff from, Franco for one and if Cheney gets let go.

 

[relapse]

The problem with this club, which it always has been, is that the tail wags the dog.

We've all seen it. The players are treated like minor celebrities because it's a small football mad town with only 2 teams, one of which has leprosy.

The only time we've had any success at all was when one M Blight came in and sent a bunch of the worst culprits on their bikes.

Since then it's been a litany of weak minded and distracted players who consistently don't turn up when the heat is on and routinely go on strike to get coaches sacked when they want a scapegoat.

For this reason I have no issue with the decision to have the camp. Pyke realised how mentally weak they were and tried to remedy it.

Tick.

Unfortunately it was done poorly.

That's ok. We all make mistakes.

And I don't blame our season on the camp at all. I blame it on our injuries thanks to B&H and one other factor.

The critical thing that pisses me right off is the lack of leadership that has allowed this to fester and get blown into mythological proportions.

When you make a mistake, own it and put it to bed.

Disgraceful void of leadership from the club.

Unforgivable.

THIS

If you come out and take ownership of your stuff ups you then have control over them and you can put them straight to bed.

Unfortunately this is a prime example of what happens when you lie and try and cover shit up, the rumour mill keep churning and then you look completely incompetent once the rumours start coming out.

The club should have owned this shit right from the get go, the ensuing mess has just compounded the problem and made things 100 times worse for the club.

 

[mulz]

Start the manure truck up

 

[FantasticShirt]

Choco Williams wowee drops massive bombshell

Pretty clear that Francou is his source.

 

[Cap]

Waiting for the Crows Defence Force to comment that Williams hates the Crows and would make anything up to rubbish us.
Williams wouldnt know anyone who knows what happened at the camp.

thing he he would and he would happily pass on any old story he has heard without substantiating it.

just because it is being said, that doesn't make it true. lets not let the mob mentality take us to far down the path of complete idiocy.

 

[Scorpus]

Chocco Williams talking on 5aa about nude players on the camp, I googled Mankind Project nudity and found this.
What due diligence was performed on this group?


mankindproject.org/phearing-phallus-sexuality-and-nudity-nwta/


Phearing the Phallus – Sexuality and Nudity on the NWTA
There is some nudity on the New Warrior Training Adventure. It is about 5% of the total experience. About 2 hours out of 50. For all of this time, nudity is secondary to the primary intention, not the focus.

is never sexual. There is no sexual touching on the New Warrior Training Adventure. It has always been forbidden and this is strictly enforced. It’s one of the first rules of the weekend that men will hear on Friday. No man will ever be asked to let another man touch his genitals or to touch another man’s genitals. The assertion that this ever happens is ridiculous and slanderous. This rumor was alleged in an article in 2007, which we responded to. The ManKind Project will take swift action in response to any report of sexual impropriety on our training weekends. We trust the journalistic integrity of reporters who read this story. We’re confident that reporters will represent us fairly and not report false information.

Why do we do this?
The male body, in its many forms, is beautiful, normal, ridiculous, natural. We use nudity on our training to reveal and confront shame about the male body and to challenge our negative self images. In North America, this is seen as controversial in some communities. At our trainings in Europe, this is almost never an issue. In fact, in many parts of the United States, this is not an issue. Specifics of class, religious beliefs and ethnic culture play a large role, and we respect these differences. And as we said above, nudity is not required.

We don’t pretend that our workshop is the be-all, end-all personal growth experience for men, or that it will match up with every man’s expectations of what it should be. But for a large group of guys who want to make the world a better place, we have enjoyed tremendous success over two and half decades of these weekends and we will keep on providing a place for men who want to step outside of their comfort zones and grow.

The Fear of the Phallus
Honest and affirming dialog about male sexuality is still taboo. Today’s young men are raised in a stilted, secretive culture where their expectations of the male body may be almost exclusively formed by viewing pornography. This presents a deeply warped view the male body. (And we cannot help but also notice and confront the often harmful, degrading, warped and objectified view of the female form and female sexuality.) The rest of the time we see men in the media who are either the ‘idealized’ athlete, soldier, comic book hero, or the ridiculed overweight slob. None of these are healthy or typical representations. Deeply ingrained homophobia, self-hatred, and fear of being ostracized or teased has fundamentally altered the fabric of male development. Many men carry painful memories of locker-room torment, self-consciousness and shame. As adult men, the preoccupation with sexual prowess, sexual function (E.D., penis enlargement) or sexual orientation forms a constant stream of meta information in our culture (not to mention spam!). And the message is usually that we’re not OK, not good enough, or not acceptable to society. Our intent is to create safety to reimagine a man’s relationship to his own body and to his sexuality.

Men have the opportunity to begin constructing a sexuality that will help them deepen their relationship to themselves and their wives or partners. This exercise helps men create the intimacy that they want in their lives.

Why a Phallus?
Men have penises. The penis will be a part of any candid discussion about male sexuality. Men have unrealistic expectations and fears about their bodies, and especially their penises. A phallus is a metaphorical representation of that fear and insecurity. The fact that entire articles have been written about the ManKind Project with the focus on this symbol is evidence of just how frightening it is to many. The use of a wooden phallus as a ‘talking stick’ for a single process dealing directly with male sexuality on the NWTA has become sensationalized in some articles as if there is something unseemly or sexual going on, when in truth it is used simply as a metaphorical anchor for a very necessary discussion.

If a man is uncomfortable holding a wooden representation of the very part of his anatomy that makes him male, what does that say about his relationship to his own body, or to his manhood? What does it say about our culture that this single object comes to represent an entire training experience, when this discussion is only 2% of a much larger and carefully designed framework? By the time a man reaches 21 in American culture, it is likely that he has seen hundreds of dildos, phallic representations and actual penises (not to mention his own!). He has heard thousands of masturbation, sex, homophobic, misogynist and misandrist jokes. He has probably been teased, harassed or even assaulted about his body or his sexuality.

It's an absolute ****ing disgrace that a professional football club like the Adelaide Crows would ever associate themselves with someone who would write bullshit like this.

It's actually disgusting and embarrassing.

 

[mattymac]

The nudity stuff doesn't shock me at all. They're footy players. Showers, change rooms they've done it their whole careers.

But that phallus shit is messed up.

 

[mattymac]

You have to wonder about Heath Younie who went there on a recon mission and came back saying yep, great, let's do it.

 

[Elite Crow]

 

[Crow till I die]

This needs to be quarantined off and it needs to be done now. The board needs to get together and arrange an external investigation to get to the bottom of the ongoing problems. Then when the recommendations are at hand, if any member of staff have acted way out of step, they are told they are sacked. What has gone on this year has been awful and it must not spill along any further. I used to think Fagan was on top of things but boy o boy, standards have slipped under his watch.

 

[jackster83]

You have to wonder about Heath Younie who went there on a recon mission and came back saying yep, great, let's do it.

My money is on him being made the scapegoat and moved on, to protect the higher-ups.

 

[Cap]

It's an absolute ******* disgrace that a professional football club like the Adelaide Crows would ever associate themselves with someone who would write bullshit like this.

It's actually disgusting and embarrassing.

we have no way of telling if this was part of what the crows did.

The collective minds people went to great length to point out it was a custom program for the Crows specifically. so chances are, they didn't.

 

[rezagun]

The best and fairest is going to be an absolute hell hole tonight. Players should not go in protest.

 

[Anzacpaul]

This needs to be quarantined off and it needs to be done now. The board needs to get together and arrange an external investigation to get to the bottom of the ongoing problems. Then when the recommendations are at hand, if any member of staff have acted way out of step, they are told they are sacked. What has gone on this year has been awful and it must not spill along any further. I used to think Fagan was on top of things but boy o boy, standards have slipped under his watch.

AFL will likely step in.

 

[Scorpus]

I have no doubt there are journos lining up to ask these very questions but who are you asking?

There aren't though. Any journo who has ever interviewed our staff members during this saga has never asked specific enough questions to get actual answers.

They ask stuff like "were the players happy with the camp?" which allows them to respond saying stuff like "most players found it useful".

They never follow up with "were there any players who took issue with the camp? How many players took issue? Did you address their concerns? Were they happy with your response? How many times did they question senior management about the camp? Were they senior players, leadership group members, young kids?"

 

[Scorpus]

we have no way of telling if this was part of what the crows did.

The collective minds people went to great length to point out it was a custom program for the Crows specifically. so chances are, they didn't.

It doesn't matter if they ever did it. The very fact they hired an organization that would even write and suggest that is a disgrace.

Any sane individual would read that rubbish and immediately discredit the entire organization and never hire them for any purpose, ever.

 

[Crow till I die]

AFL will likely step in.

Yeah..great. You know what that will mean - we will likely cop sanctions and all sorts of stuff. It will be a free hit for them and it is not too much of a stretch to imagine them telling the club that any player that is aggrieved by what has happened under player welfare will be free to move on without us standing in their way. They (the AFL) could..I stress could, royally screw us for now and going forward for some time to come

 

[Cleric]

thing he he would and he would happily pass on any old story he has heard without substantiating it.

just because it is being said, that doesn't make it true. lets not let the mob mentality take us to far down the path of complete idiocy.

You never disappoint.

 

[simmo97]

if that Mark Williams apparent bombshell is true i reckon the AFLPA would of had heaps of complaints from players.

 

[Doctor B]

The best and fairest is going to be an absolute hell hole tonight. Players should not go in protest.

Will it be on TV?