Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogs Rule]

Me too. Pick 15 and burton doesn’t help them secure picks 2/3. Isn’t that the whole point in trading him ?

I hope Port string it along and then they just keep him. It's what Wingard and Hawthorn both deserve.

 

[immortalmike]

Would Hawthorns board signed off on Bev as a senior coach? I’m not so sure

Nah they'd never sign off on a diminutive little known former player from a traditionally small Victorian club, known for more for his hardness than skill. Not in a million years.

 

[Bazzas Lovechild]

Very disappointed we missed out on Wingard, would have been tough to manage his eccentricities from a coaching point of view but would have added some real goal scoring power. Given our current forward line is an abomination I think we can agree he would have really helped us push up the ladder. If Billy Gowers is our leading goal Kicker with 25ish for the year we will comfortably be bottom 4. (PS love Billy but if he’s our number 1 forward....ouch).

I reckon there is something to this destination club business...and we are definitely not one.

This being said I’m glad we’ll go to the draft with 7 as we should pick up a quality player. (Got to be a mid or forward as I reckon our defence should be fine).

However if we don’t sign Libba I will absolutely spew. He would be perfect for Essendon and could push them into top 4 (truly horrific thought I’m sure you’ll agree). We just absolutely have to sign him...even if we do it merely to spite the Bombers after the reaming we copped over Stringer.

Dodoro is a c*ck....would love to frustrate the shit out of him over Libba.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Gotta get in May or Martin’s ear. We need to lose pick 7 and get older in the process.

 

[Doggy]

Gotta get in May or Martin’s ear. We need to lose pick 7 and get older in the process.

doubt it

 

[bobby2]

Delusional because you won't call a spade a spade. Somehow we always get diamonds with certain people, you know, as we continue to lose and get further down the club pecking order.

What I find a little sad though is that it is those same people that latch on to the "we're not a big, attractive club" trope as an excuse. It's bullshit and it's defeatist. We aren't a small club. We lie at the seat of the biggest growth area of Australia, in culturally diverse hipster cool Footscray, we won a premiership two years ago and have a list and coach many teams could only dream about. If you can't sell that, you're not trying hard enough.

We probably did try to sell that. I'm sure we would've also mentioned our young group of guns. Then hawthorn probably sold "we've won 4 of the last 11 premierships", finished 3rd on the ladder and have a lot of members. Chad had two good options in front of him and picked one of them. That's not necessarily a failing on our part.

I'd rather our list management team be encouraged to go for players who they want to bring into the club, rather than chastised for doing so unsuccessfully. If they see this as a failure, they're more likely to say "oh, well maybe we shouldn't go for the big player in case we fail again", which would be ridiculous. They tried to get the big player, he chose a different club, so we move on to the next best option. It's not like Sam has the Power to control Chad's choices.

 

[Custard Guts]

Sam Power misses a target. Gee who'd have thunk it?

 

[immortalmike]

We probably did try to sell that. I'm sure we would've also mentioned our young group of guns. Then hawthorn probably sold "we've won 4 of the last 11 premierships", finished 3rd on the ladder and have a lot of members. Chad had two good options in front of him and picked one of them. That's not necessarily a failing on our part.

I'd rather our list management team be encouraged to go for players who they want to bring into the club, rather than chastised for doing so unsuccessfully. If they see this as a failure, they're more likely to say "oh, well maybe we shouldn't go for the big player in case we fail again", which would be ridiculous. They tried to get the big player, he chose a different club, so we move on to the next best option. It's not like Sam has the Power to control Chad's choices.

You and I see failure very differently.
Failure is a chance to try harder and go again. That only happens if you aren't delusional enough to recognize that you've failed.

 

[TiAn_]

Delusional because you won't call a spade a spade. Somehow we always get diamonds with certain people, you know, as we continue to lose and get further down the club pecking order.

What I find a little sad though is that it is those same people that latch on to the "we're not a big, attractive club" trope as an excuse. It's bullshit and it's defeatist. We aren't a small club. We lie at the seat of the biggest growth area of Australia, in culturally diverse hipster cool Footscray, we won a premiership two years ago and have a list and coach many teams could only dream about. If you can't sell that, you're not trying hard enough.

Agree with your second paragraph. I really don’t get why people immediately go to that place.

IMO the most obvious reason why Wingard would go to the Hawks is they won 15 games this year while we won 8, and look much more likely to have immediate success. If you throw in a more attractive contract (who knows?) then it makes sense on two very obvious levels and is hardly a shocking outcome.

I tend to believe the simplest explanation is usually the best one.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

I don’t see how viewing this as a failure entails or even implies that we should expect Power to avoid these situations in future.

 

[Woofing]

Think others have said
But hope we are trying to go Adams and 7 to Brisbane for 5
Then try and swap 5 for 8 and 13 to the crows
Still gives us currency for mature players if needed but gives us a good draft position if all else fails.
Come on Sammy

 

[ab_83]

I know it doesn't really fit the storyline of the last 12 hours, but maybe, maybe our club was being responsible here? Actually managing the list as it should and not putting us in potential trouble down the track? Just a thought.

That is too sensible of a thought. I think you deserve a card for that behavior

 

[Hobdog]

Agree with your second paragraph. I really don’t get why people immediately go to that place.

IMO the most obvious reason why Wingard would go to the Hawks is they won 15 games this year while we won 8, and look much more likely to have immediate success. If you throw in a more attractive contract (who knows?) then it makes sense on two very obvious levels and is hardly a shocking outcome.

I tend to believe the simplest explanation is usually the best one.

I don’t see us as a small unattractive club at all. Our poor on-field efforts since the flag, combined with unfair and uninformed media, and a historical perception (no longer true or relevant now in my opinion) means that a line ball call from a player right now is likely to go against us. It won’t always be like this, I’m 100% confident of that, but I believe it’s the reality this very moment.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Distinctive_]

Would love a zippy small crumbling forward similar to Betts, Cameron, Gresham Etc.
Wingard would've been perfect. Any other options?

 

[Antares]

Kane Cornes said on trade radio Port offered a fair bit more money to Wingard than what the Dogs were offering.

 

[immortalmike]

I don’t see how viewing this as a failure entails or even implies that we should expect Power to avoid these situations in future.

It's honestly like people deliberately try to take you out of context here just to argue against a point you didn't make.
It's really frustrating having a discussion with someone when they only seem to hear half of what you say and then decide on what you mean.

 

[dergert]

Kane Cornes said on trade radio Port offered a fair bit more money to Wingard than what the Dogs were offering.

He would know.

Relax dogs fans, he's been a downhill skier for nearly 2 years now.

 

[immortalmike]

Power isn't a failure because we missed out on Wingard. He will be a failure if he doesn't take steps to balance our list in the near future. That includes having other targets lined up and retaining our players.
Losing Libba now would be diabolical. Losing Dahlhaus was bad enough.

 

[TiAn_]

You and I see failure very differently.
Failure is a chance to try harder and go again. That only happens if you aren't delusional enough to recognize that you've failed.

I don’t see us as a small unattractive club at all. Our poor on-field efforts since the flag, combined with unfair and uninformed media, and a historical perception (no longer true or relevant now in my opinion) means that a line ball call from a player right now is likely to go against us. It won’t always be like this, I’m 100% confident of that, but I believe it’s the reality this very moment.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think the degree of ‘failure’ being ascribed to Wingard chosing Hawthorn is the issue. For some of us, the ranting and raving and calling for heads over it is baffling.

In a strict sense, the club ‘failed’ to lure Wingard. Just like I ‘failed’ to resist the lure of carbs yesterday. There are degrees to ‘failure’ that are impacted by the stakes and circumstances.

A player choosing a club that won double the games we did this year and has a list more balanced for immediate success isn’t necessarily a huge failure on Sam Power’s or the club’s strategy to luring him imo. At least that’s not the first conclusion I’ve drawn.

Perhaps Wingard didn’t want to be one of only a handful of late-20s leaders at a rebuilding club? He doesn’t strike me as a roll up the sleeves and lead from the front type.

There are so many possible explanations other than the “Power failed, burn the witch!” option.

That’s not to say he ran a perfect campaign either. I have no idea. But if we’re speculating, there are a bunch of possible explanations I’d give weight to before “club’s stuffed, what a failure, Power stinks” etc.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Kane Cornes said on trade radio Port offered a fair bit more money to Wingard than what the Dogs were offering.

Pretty sure that isn’t true. Hearing Hawks offe is only $600k. Surely ours was more.

 

[dergert]

Damos sliding doors.... What a prick

 

[Fossie 32]

I happened to be listening to that call. Dave from Melton...... Melton.

Maybe Melton Bogan from facebook ?

 

[Dogs Rule]

You and I see failure very differently.
Failure is a chance to try harder and go again. That only happens if you aren't delusional enough to recognize that you've failed.

Should we lock Power and Bevo away in solitary for a month?

Problem is, if Power mopes around pondering our 'failure' we potentially miss out on other opportunities which may present themselves in the coming days and I'm sure they're out there.

Maybe Wingard was always going to Hawthorn? Who knows or really cares now? Doesn't come across as the sharpest tool in the shed so I can see how he would easily buy into the Clarkson 'aura' and the idea of being a show pony at the G (the spotlight of big games also more exposing of players who fail of course) and wouldn't have even bothered to look at their rapidly ageing list or gone into depth.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Pretty sure that isn’t true. Hearing Hawks offe is only $600k. Surely ours was more.

Backloaded. They have a lot of guys retiring next 1-2 years so they can do that.

We definitely can't.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Think others have said
But hope we are trying to go Adams and 7 to Brisbane for 5
Then try and swap 5 for 8 and 13 to the crows
Still gives us currency for mature players if needed but gives us a good draft position if all else fails.
Come on Sammy

I reckon if you can get in the top 5 in this draft you take the player. Quality over quantity in this example.