Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[gbk5]

So tell me what's wrong with taking pick 7 to the draft? And taking future picks to the draft? I'm getting the gist we need more 'mature aged players' to fill an 'age gap', but if we take keep taking picks to the draft each year, then in a handful of years we'll have a fairly evenly distributed aged profile across the team or am I missing something? I understand we'll occasionally need to trade to rectify a specific position shortfall most likely in order to challenge for the Premiership when we understand our window to be open...but is our window actually open right now? Players on other teams can see that it isn't...

I don't want to be like Sydney or Geelong and be perennial runners-up...Couldn't care less if they made the finals each year. I'm content to be patient (and not melt) for our next challenge. And rather than going all out to bring in what appears to be a Stringer by a different name (basically what a PA mate said before he even picked up on the news we were interested), I'm happy to recruit our players at the draft and build something from nothing just like 2016.

We can't win every year. Such an attitude isn't defeatist, not when you're working towards a window and making sure you're building a list to match.

History would suggest successful teams are built upon drafting a high quality foundation of youth over 4-5 years, before trading in established players to address the team's weaknesses.

Hawthorn had one of the best blueprints. From 2001-2006, they pick up Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Franklin, Lewis & Birchall among others, then won a flag earlier than expected in 2008. At that point, they decided now was the right time to bring in hardened bodies, and over the next 3-5 years, brought in Burgoyne, Gibson, I.Smith(mature age draftee), Puopolo(mature age draftee), Lake, McEvoy and Frawley.

Looking at us, from 2012-2017, we've assembled Macrae, Hunter, Bontempelli, McLean, Dunkley, Cordy, Richards and Naughton among others. That's a high quality foundation of youth, but as we've seen this year, we have some big problems, particularly in the forward line. We've already shown in 2015-2016 this team is capable of playing amazing footy, so logic would suggest bringing in an established forward is a good idea, which is why we're getting Lloyd, and why we targeted Wingard. Now is the right time to target established quality.

With that said, it's looking increasingly likely we'll take pick 7 to the draft now that we're not getting Wingard. It looks like there won't be any high quality forwards available this trade window.

 

[The Inbetweener]

How does this look, not that inspiring but gets some deadwood off our list and improves the draft position in the middle:

We currently have 7,27,45,63,64,82

Delisted/retired
Biggs
Redpath
Smith
Collins
Campbell

Traded/FA
Roughead
Adams
Dahlhaus
Honeychurch

Added to list
Gowers
Lynch
Sam Lloyd

Trades
Roughead, 63,64 for
51,56 (Collingwood)

Adams for
Future 2nd

Future 4th for
Sam Lloyd, 74

Honeychurch for 80 (Gold Coast)

Gives us
7,27,45,51,56,74,80,82

9 spots available including Sam Lloyd

Draft
7 - Bailey Smith
27 - Rhylee West
51 - Baku Khamis
56 - best available or mature age
74 - best available or mature age
80 - Billy Gowers upgrade
82 - Brad Lynch upgrade

Go into 2019 draft with
1 x 1st rounder
2 x 2nd rounder
1 x 3rd rounder
0 x 4th rounder

 

[Doggy]

• Brisbane's talks with the Western Bulldogs about contracted defender Marcus Adams are at a preliminary stage. It's understood the Bulldogs are seeking a pick in the 20s, but Lions' second draft selection does not fall until No.32 while they could instead look to use one of their next two picks, 41 and 44.

lol

 

[Endless]

Can those wanting to chat about some stupid fantasy series books do so in an appropriate thread. Most of us here couldn't give a crap about your little books. This is a thread for list management discussion.

Logan Ninefingers says hi

 

[Doggy]

How does this look, not that inspiring but gets some deadwood off our list and improves the draft position in the middle:

We currently have 7,27,45,63,64,82

Delisted/retired
Biggs
Redpath
Smith
Collins
Campbell

Traded/FA
Roughead
Adams
Dahlhaus
Honeychurch

Added to list
Gowers
Lynch
Sam Lloyd

Trades
Roughead, 63,64 for
51,56 (Collingwood)

Adams for
Future 2nd

Future 4th for
Sam Lloyd, 74

Honeychurch for 80 (Gold Coast)

Gives us
7,27,45,51,56,74,80,82

9 spots available including Sam Lloyd

Draft
7 - Bailey Smith
27 - Rhylee West
51 - Baku Khamis
56 - best available or mature age
74 - best available or mature age
80 - Billy Gowers upgrade
82 - Brad Lynch upgrade

Go into 2019 draft with
1 x 1st rounder
2 x 2nd rounder
1 x 3rd rounder
0 x 4th rounder

Loyd as the sole mature recruit .. who we still cannot get over the line ..

now that is a big failure

 

[Dogs Rule]

WTF is all of this psychobabble over one player choosing to go to a club that is presently contending while we aren’t?

The talk of “failing” when it comes to jagging a peak player? How about before you go jump off the Westgate you wait until our team is actually a legit contender in the current climate.

We won a flag in 2016, but it wasn’t after contending for a period, it was out of the blue. So we had literally one off-season where things looked really good. If we contend for a couple of years in the build up to a flag we’ll lure players. The reality is we’ve had two decent years since FA has been in and we’ve brought in best 22 players without an outright “star”. We need to be challenging to be attractive. It’s pretty simple.

This group of players is young but can be very competitive. They’ll start to peak in the next 2 years. As much as I too would like to add top shelf experience this year (would love May), drafting one of the guns of this draft at 7 isn’t a failure imo, given where we’re at.

At worst, add a few mature players to fill the age demographic and bring in 2 more elite talents at 7 and West, bust balls to get better next year and demonstrate to players they should come here and contend with us.

But, people want success now and every year and if we don't have it, then we're a failure.

They want us to trade aggressively, but develop the kids, develop the kids but not be too young or too old, it's always having a bit each way.

I'll be honest, I never thought I would see a flag in my life (and I was only born in the 80s) but I did and I'm happy with that and will forever be that way. The memories will last a lifetime.

I'm patient and want us to get it right. It takes time, but I want to see the kids come through and blossom again and they will and we'll shoot up the ladder all of a sudden.

Do I want to be Hawthorn constantly topping up to avoid the inevitable slide? No. What the media see as bold and courageous I see as reeking of desperation and being seen to do something to appease their supporter base after an early finals exit. They will effectively be without any picks this year and they'll do it again next year and it'll bite them hard, maybe not next year, but it'll happen. You can't beat the system year after year.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Loyd as the sole mature recruit .. who we still cannot get over the line ..

now that is a big failure

Just trying to be realistic

Can swap out one of the late draft spots for Duryea if you like but I don’t rate him

 

[Doggy]

Just trying to be realistic

Can swap out one of the late draft spots for Duryea if you like but I don’t rate him

you do realise that the club has vowed to get more experienced not alot less experienced

a s**t showing next year will translate badly

 

[Northernsoul74]

• Brisbane's talks with the Western Bulldogs about contracted defender Marcus Adams are at a preliminary stage. It's understood the Bulldogs are seeking a pick in the 20s, but Lions' second draft selection does not fall until No.32 while they could instead look to use one of their next two picks, 41 and 44.

lol

They had the perfect pick and tried to play us by trading it away hoping we’ll take crap.

 

[The Inbetweener]

you do realise that the club has vowed to get more experienced not alot less experienced

a s**t showing next year will translate badly

Happy for you to have a go at it and I’ll give you some feedback

 

[Doggy]

They had the perfect pick and tried to play us by trading it away hoping we’ll take crap.

we probably will too

 

[Yojimbo]

It’s early, this place really needs a sarcasm font.

My trade book has 48 names on it and so far every trade barring the second tier guys has come to fruition I even thought
Gaff would stay once the Eagles won the flag, so is it sarcasm that is the question ?

 

[Doggy]

Happy for you to have a go at it and I’ll give you some feedback

If we are trying to draft into the 70s when GC and Carltank have already taken the good mature draftees it would likely be some speculative kid who probably will never play ... i don't know about you bit that won't wash with alot of supporters

This club cannot continue to sit in the pit of the bottom 8 because it will bite on memberships

 

[Munnez]

Suspect it has more to do with having far to many top picks that have had their market value increased. Only so many you can afford to keep and backended contracts that you can’t afford to pay. Whilst they trade out for top picks it just masks salary cap issues and new young guns will cost more after their initial 2 year starting contract

Will keep them in the top 8 and still maybe challenging for the big prize

 

[Munnez]

So Hawks looking at a lazy 25yo and a 27yo with dodgy ankles (to go with the bloke they got last year with dodgy knees).

And giving away quality youngsters and high draft picks in the process.

They are sooo going the Geelong path.

Can't see it going any other way long term

 

[The Inbetweener]

If we are trying to draft into the 70s when GC and Carltank have already taken the good mature draftees it would likely be some speculative kid who probably will never play ... i don't know about you bit that won't wash with alot of supporters

This club cannot continue to sit in the pit of the bottom 8 because it will bite on memberships

I certainly don’t disagree.

What I tried to do was give us another pick in the 80s for Gower/Lynch so not to waste a pick in the 60s for them.

Think 56 is still a decent pick but agree if we can get a good mature aged player there or at 74 I’m all for it.

I just don’t know realistically who that could be.

 

[The Inbetweener]

For anyone wondering about Ricky Nixon’s credibility, check out Tom Bellchambers latest tweet. Funny stuff

 

[JJHunter]

They had the perfect pick and tried to play us by trading it away hoping we’ll take crap.

Sound familiar / out of the dodoro play book last year

 

[Munnez]

Phew

Thank god Power and the club said we would be really active.

Hate to see how boring this could get if we weren’t.

But it’s all part of the plan don’t worry guys it’s all positives today on a beautiful day

Sun is out and it's a beautiful day

 

[DelRe]

It is almost certain that any media summary of the clubs trade period will include a phrase along the lines of “after going hard but failing to secure the services of Wingard” followed by something along the lines of “they turned their attention to [draft/player]”. I anticipate most would find that a fair description.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

For anyone wondering about Ricky Nixon’s credibility, check out Tom Bellchambers latest tweet. Funny stuff

Some of us don't do tweet, tell us what it says

 

[Munnez]

If we could actually get something out for nothing out of it (taking zombie Roughead or Schoenmakers or whoever's contract) for picks in this draft or future ones we would be silly not to just out of spite.

I said it before but I'll say it again if Hawthorn are going to spend like drunken sailors, the answer for us not to do so as well just for the hell of it.

Use the St Kilda model to take advantage of the situation if we possibly can

 

[The Inbetweener]

Some of us don't do tweet, tell us what it says

Tried to figure out how to include it here but I’m not that tech savvy sorry.

Chicken tweeted saying Bellchambers deep into negotiations with St Kilda. Bellchambers responded telling him to stay by the phone and he will keep him updated

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

I know alot of people hate toby Greene but whens his contract expire?

Off the field I heard his a really nice dude

Ha. This is the opposite of true. He was trying to start fights and abusing people just the other week. I think it was at the WWE or the grand final. These weeks all blur together this time of year.

 

[Yojimbo]

Wingard update:

At the infamous Bevo/Wingard dinner Bevo served Nachos as a main, nachos are an entrée.

At the Clarko/Wingard dinner Clarko served Peking duck with chilled Quail eggs followed by
a glass of grange hermitage.

I hope we learn from this culinary failure..