Black Magic: The best Aboriginal 18 of all time:

[Procrastinator35]

B:...C.Johnson.....G.Malarkey......G.Wanganeen.
HB:.A.McLeod……..P.Ryder……..….B.Pickett
C:...P.Matera.......M.Rioli............M.Long
HF:.N.Winmar…...A.Goodes………..M.O'Loughlin
F:...C.Rioli..........L.Franklin.........E.Betts
R:...G.Farmer.....S.Burgoyne.......B.Cable

Int: J.Krakouer, C.Lewis, S.Michael, J.Farmer
Captain/Coach: Barry Cable.

Additions, omissions & criticisms welcomed in order to aid & assist me in improving this list.

 

[35Daicos]

B:...C.Johnson.....B.Pickett..........G.Wanganeen.
HB:.A.McLeod…….M.O'Loughlin.....S.Burgoyne
C:...P.Matera.......M.Rioli.............M.Long
HF:.N.Winmar…...A.Goodes………..J.Krakouer
F:...C.Rioli..........L.Franklin.........E.Betts
R:...G.Farmer.....P.Burgoyne.......B.Cable

The trouble here of course, is with key defensive posts.....I simply can't find any.....Thought about both adding Mal Michael & Josh Gibson, but neither are of Aboriginal descent, so far as I'm aware....Darryl White came to mind, but I reckon Mickey O & Pickett were far better players.

Additions, omissions & criticisms welcomed in order to aid & assist me in improving this list.

Gary Malarkey for full back? Only fairly recently it was revealed that he is indigenous.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Gary Malarkey for full back?

Geez....Had no idea he was of Aboriginal stock....Fixed.

 

[Wild Bill]

Phil Krakour stiff. Jim was better than Peter Burgoyne and should be rover.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Phil Krakour stiff. Jim was better than Peter Burgoyne and should be rover.

Who would Phil replace though?

The Krakouer magic was more a package-deal than anything else, but Jim was clearly the superior & more gifted player.

I'd have Phil along-side the likes of the Hill brothers from Fremantle.....close, but no cigar.

I'd also have Walters in ahead of all 3 of them, if I could fit him in.....Jeff Farmer from Melbourne was also vbery stiff & would also be in ahead of Phil.

Too many small forwards I'm afraid, with a special shout out to Syd Jackson also.

 

[Wild Bill]

Who would Phil replace though?

The Krakouer magic was more a package-deal than anything else, but Jim was clearly the superior & more gifted player.

I'd have Phil along-side the likes of the Hill brothers from Fremantle.....close, but no cigar.

I'd also have Walters in ahead of all 3 of them, if I could fit him in.....Jeff Farmer from Melbourne was also vbery stiff & would also be in ahead of Phil.

Too many small forwards I'm afraid, with a special shout out to Syd Jackson also.

He takes Jim’s spot and Jim roves. Phil’s stats stack up very well against Rioli - averaging more disposals and goals.

May could end up with a key post by career end and Ryder has played CHB & CHF.

Lewis is another. Maybe put 4 on the bench.

 

[Procrastinator35]

He takes Jim’s spot and Jim roves. Phil’s stats stack up very well against Rioli - averaging more disposals and goals.

May could end up with a key post by career end and Ryder has played CHB & CHF.

Lewis is another. Maybe put 4 on the bench.

I forgot about Ryder, but neither of him nor May are getting in ahead of Malarkey or Mickey O.

I'll consider putting in a bench of 4.

Phil is not in Cyril's class I'm afraid....Couldn't take a hangar to save himself.....Sizzle has the all-round game & big game premiership performances that Phil lacks.

 

[35Daicos]

I'm glad you've added the bench. No doubt WA fans will be miffed that Stephen Michael hasn't made it into the team, but most of us will have seen very little of him! Ryder would probably be needed for CHB, allowing O'Loughlin to move to somewhere more suitable. I think you've over-rated Peter Burgoyne somewhat, decent player though he was. You had Pickett in the original 18; he surely deserves a spot again now you've named 24?!

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'm glad you've added the bench. No doubt WA fans will be miffed that Stephen Michael hasn't made it into the team, but most of us will have seen very little of him! Ryder would probably be needed for CHB, allowing O'Loughlin to move to somewhere more suitable. I think you've over-rated Peter Burgoyne somewhat, decent player though he was. You had Pickett in the original 18; he surely deserves a spot again now you've named 24?!

Yeah, I'll need to mull over it some more now that so many more names I've over-looked have come-up for discussion.

I'll finalise the bench to 7 to make it an even 25.

David Wirrpunda is also deserving of a mention, although he won't be replacing either of Wanganeen or Chris Johnson in the back pockets.

Chad Wingard is also a very good player, but needs another 5 years of top-class footy to be replacing any of these guys, much less a place on the bench.

 

[Santoz]

Yeah, I'll need to mull over it some more now that so many more names I've over-looked have come-up for discussion.

I'll finalise the bench to 7 to make it an even 25.

David Wirrpunda is also deserving of a mention, although he won't be replacing either of Wanganeen or Chris Johnson in the back pockets.

Chad Wingard is also a very good player, but needs another 5 years of top-class footy to be replacing any of these guys, much less a place on the bench.

Darryl White over Stephen Hill surely.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

B:...C.Johnson.....G.Malarkey......G.Wanganeen.
HB:.A.McLeod……..P.Ryder……..…..M.O'Loughlin
C:...P.Matera.......M.Rioli............M.Long
HF:.N.Winmar…...A.Goodes………..J.Farmer
F:...C.Rioli..........L.Franklin.........E.Betts
R:...G.Farmer.....S.Burgoyne.......B.Cable

Int: B.Pickett, J.Krakouer, P.Burgoune, S.Hill, C.Lewis, S.Michael, P.Krakouer.


Additions, omissions & criticisms welcomed in order to aid & assist me in improving this list.

Very strong side.

I’d personally have Daniel Wells in, ahead of a few you have n the bench and j farmer too.

Very strong side.

In the all time greats Polly Farmer sits very comfortably as do a few others, Franklin, McLeod, Cable.

What a good side.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Very strong side.

I’d personally have Daniel Wells in, ahead of a few you have n the bench and j farmer too.

Very strong side.

In the all time greats Polly Farmer sits very comfortably as do a few others, Franklin, McLeod, Cable.

What a good side.

And a very quick side to boot....

Wells injury plagued career counts against his inclusion I'm afraid....No one doubts his class & ability, but he hasn't been on the park for any length of time to prove himself over the journey.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Darryl White over Stephen Hill surely.

While it's true that White played in Premierships for Brisbane, the fact is he was a bottom 6 player.....While Stephen Hill is a Top 6 player for his club.

If I include everybody, then the bench will blow out to over 100.

 

[Wild Bill]

And a very quick side to boot....

Wells injury plagued career counts against his inclusion I'm afraid....No one doubts his class & ability, but he hasn't been on the park for any length of time to prove himself over the journey.

257 games puts him in the top 10 games played. He has also won 2 b&fs.

 

[Procrastinator35]

257 games puts him in the top 10 games played. He has also won 2 b&fs.

Has only once played more than 10 games in the past 5 seasons....2009 was also a write-off with a mere 7 games.

His best season was 2013, where he kicked 25 goals in 22 games at an average disposal count of 21.....Not really enough for a midfielder.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

And a very quick side to boot....

Wells injury plagued career counts against his inclusion I'm afraid....No one doubts his class & ability, but he hasn't been on the park for any length of time to prove himself over the journey.

I’d be re-checking your thinking there.

Daniel has played over 250 games and nearly every season he’s played most games.

He has 4 seasons with less than 10 games and 3 of those are in the last 4 years.

The missing games is a bit of myth actually.

Once you get to 250 games, you’re doing lots of playing.

Uber elite silk. Star.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Has only once played more than 10 games in the past 5 seasons....2009 was also a write-off with a mere 7 games.

His best season was 2013, where he kicked 25 goals in 22 games at an average disposal count of 21.....Not really enough for a midfielder.

You have Cyril in, (correct by the way) for a lot less games and possessions.

So I just think Wells is bit under appreciated, most likely because North Melbourne gets over looked quite a bit.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I’d be re-checking your thinking there.

Daniel has played over 250 games and nearly every season he’s played most games.

He has 4 seasons with less than 10 games and 3 of those are in the last 4 years.

The missing games is a bit of myth actually.

Once you get to 250 games, you’re doing lots of playing.

Uber elite silk. Star.

He's classy but he doesn't get the pill anywhere near enough to warrant the high praise that he gets.

His second best season was in 2011, where he averaged 22.5 disposals from 21 games, kicking 17 goals.

As an attacking midfielder with elite finishing skills, he doesn't kick any where near enough goals.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You have Cyril in, (correct by the way) for a lot less games and possessions.

So I just think Wells is bit under appreciated, most likely because North Melbourne gets over looked quite a bit.

Cyril is a forward pocket specialist, who topped the league stats on forward pressure acts for so many years running it wasn't funny.....Not to mention his direct effect on scoring-chains....He's also snaffled close to 300 goals in his time as a Hawk.

Only Brent Harvey had a better ball retention rate inside attacking 50 than Cyril league-wide.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

He's classy but he doesn't get the pill anywhere near enough to warrant the high praise that he gets.

His second best season was in 2011, where he averaged 22.5 disposals from 21 games, kicking 17 goals.

As an attacking midfielder with elite finishing skills, he doesn't kick any where near enough goals.

Well just have to agree to disagree.

To me he’s a far better player than the excellent Byron Pickett, far better than Peter Burgoyne, and as much as he is loved with the partnership with brother Jim, but Daniel Wells is so much more superior and sublime than Phil Krakour.
Sorry Phil.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Cyril is a forward pocket specialist, who topped the league stats on forward pressure acts for so many years running it wasn't funny.....Not to mention his direct effect on scoring-chains....He's also snaffled close to 300 goals in his time as a Hawk.

Only Brent Harvey had a better ball retention rate inside attacking 50 than Cyril league-wide.

I’m not disputing Cyril in any way, just mentioning stats can be used in many ways.
Cyril Rioli deserves all his praise and for a smaller type in size for position he has few equals, and the sublime magician, Peter Daicos aside, I’d struggle to find a more miraculous goal kicker.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Well just have to agree to disagree.

To me he’s a far better player than the excellent Byron Pickett, far better than Peter Burgoyne, and as much as he is loved with the partnership with brother Jim, but Daniel Wells is so much more superior and sublime than Phil Krakour.
Sorry Phil.

Pickett brings something different to the table than any other player though.....Hardness & clout.

He was also highly versatile & had many break-out games where he was the difference between winning & losing.....A very high-impact & damaging player was Pickett.....Who could turn a game with a hip 'n shoulder.

Wells has too many same-same qualities that don't serve to separate him from so many other indigenous players.

For a player of his class & abilities, his overall career is sublimely underwhelming.....Too often he would flatter only to deceive.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I’m not disputing Cyril in any way, just mentioning stats can be used in many ways.
Cyril Rioli deserves all his praise and for a smaller type in size for position he has few equals, and the sublime magician, Peter Daicos aside, I’d struggle to find a more miraculous goal kicker.

Betts is probably more a goal conjurer than Sizzle is.....Cyril has a far superior range as a player than does Betts, but Betts has him when it comes to manufacturing goals from insane & impossible angles & situations.....What a career he has carved for himself in such a specialised position.

 

[adammania9]

Neon Leon Davis > Stephen Hill

 

[Procrastinator35]

O.K.....I've gotten rid of Phil Krakouer, Peter Burgoyne & Stephen Hill from the bench.....To cut the side down to an elite 22.

Happy to hear arguments on who should be replaced for whom from here on in.