- Jul 30, 2018
- 11,782
- 15,176
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Banned
- #176
Tell it to Malifice.No ones ever considered a war result a victory of liberalism.
Malifice’s law.I didn't bandy about a reference to Stormfront lightly before.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Tell it to Malifice.No ones ever considered a war result a victory of liberalism.
Malifice’s law.I didn't bandy about a reference to Stormfront lightly before.
Tell it to Malifice.
Some aboriginal mobs in Voctoria practised infanticide, but not for spiritual reasons - it was to maintain a sustainable population. Brutal, but effective.
Whether you are for or against ethnonationalism is immaterial: it’s what happened. Whatever anyone thinks about liberalism being embraced, the settlement of Europe as a result of the two world wars was a redrawing of national boundaries according to ethnicity, and the (historically anomalous) 70 years of resultant peace must be taken in that context.As arguments for ethno-nationalism go, it's extraordinarily weak.
It's a much more interesting question when you don't stack the deck by saying Imperial Japan when you could use the example of modern Japan which is one of the most peaceful and successful societies on the planet by most measures.1) Do you honestly believe that [closed border, insular, ethnically nationalist] Nation States (Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan) are desirable?
Yeah I let that slide, too hard to keep up with Malifice’s argumentum ad wikipedium.It's a much more interesting question when you don't stack the deck by saying Imperial Japan when you could use the example of modern Japan which is one of the most peaceful and successful societies on the planet by most measures.
There's a few in there but I'll leave you two to discuss it.Yeah I let that slide, too hard to keep up with Malifice’s argumentum ad wikipedium.
It’s dangerous when you start talking about the Ottoman Empire, because things didn’t resolve themselves cleanly. We’re still dealing with the failures of that empire’s collapse today in Iraq and Syria.There's a few in there but I'll leave you two to discuss it.
IMO it's impossible to discuss Germany 1914-1945 without a Godwin descent.
There are plenty of other examples to use of violence in the search of a "monist state" that work just as well like the Ottomans/Turkey and the Armenian/Greek/Assyrian Genocide; the breakup of Yugoslavia; Spain under Franco.
The states that were instinctively "multicultural" post WWII were the imperial powers (UK, US, France, Soviet Union) with the greatest incentive to justify their empires at a time of powerful nationalist sentiment. A lot of the the pamphleteering of the anti-colonialist struggle was flat out reactionary/racist.
Yes we do train our soldiers just fine when they are voluntary workers earning a decent wage. But nations with less focus on the rights and virtues of individuals and more emphasis on the greatness of the state are able to find a whole lot more robotic sacrificial soldiers and dont have to pay them much at all. Look at the number of soldiers that exist in China and nth Korea.Not true. We train our soldiers to follow orders just fine.
Or as we put it in the Army: This isn't a a democracy; we just fight for one'
He's providing much hilarity in this thread.
His central argument is 'Europe would be more peaceful if it resorted to ultra nationalist ethnic nationalism' and that 'the cause of peace on the European continent has been the ethnic nationalism of its member nations' and 'the only reason Europe is failing is because of mixed ethnic groups' and that 'liberalism has failed.'
Or, to put it another way: 'Europe would be more peaceful under Hitler 2.0.'
Considering elsewhere he's also asserted that the ''White race'' is a thing (and that it's superior to other races), that the reason Europe is 'superior' to the rest of the World is due to this 'white race', and his current strong advocacy of ethnic nationalism (presumably a 'Europe for the White race') you can see where his loyalties lie. I didn't bandy about a reference to Stormfront lightly before.
Sieg ******* Heil.
What were the consequences of this abandoning of ethnic homogenisation in Europe?Whether you are for or against ethnonationalism is immaterial: it’s what happened. Whatever anyone thinks about liberalism being embraced, the settlement of Europe as a result of the two world wars was a redrawing of national boundaries according to ethnicity, and the (historically anomalous) 70 years of resultant peace must be taken in that context.
When?What were the consequences of this abandoning of ethnic homogenisation in Europe?
Yeah that's right. With the collapse of imperial authority the Young Turk radicals wanted to create a Turkish state and one of the plotters told an American representative as early as 1910 that they couldn't/wouldn't share a Turkish identity with Christians, and that went double for the Armenians who they loathed. The Kurds were Sunni though, and one of the more reactionary and backward expressions of it at the time. The Turks set the Kurds on the Armenian and the Assyrian civilian train and seeing the brutality they inflicted on kafir women and children, probably didn't foresee them becoming a problem down the track. To their credit both the Turko-Kurd and Iraqi-Kurdish leadership have made extremely heartfelt and sincere apologies for their role in the genocide of Turkey's Christian population since.It’s dangerous when you start talking about the Ottoman Empire, because things didn’t resolve themselves cleanly. We’re still dealing with the failures of that empire’s collapse today in Iraq and Syria.
But what pretty much everyone agrees is that the boundaries drawn did not hew to ethnic lines enough, and the resultant persecution of Kurds, Shia, and Yazidis, among other groups, is because the nations created were multiethnic with one ethnic group holding all the power.
Apparently the Japanese only admitted 27 refugees last year. Of which, 2 have already been arrested for rape. They may rethink even such modest generosity going forward.It's a much more interesting question when you don't stack the deck by saying Imperial Japan when you could use the example of modern Japan which is one of the most peaceful and successful societies on the planet by most measures.
I don't think Israel should be your exhibit A for peaceful ethno-nationalism.Never forget that the group of people who suffered the most from ethnonationalism decided it was in their best interests after their genocide to form an ethnic nation state.
Not that I've followed the thread well but to me it appears the main reason you and Mal are talking past one another is that he sees the nation state and the cultural and physical trappings of national identity as bad by definition.Never forget that the group of people who suffered the most from ethnonationalism decided it was in their best interests after their genocide to form a ethnic nation state.
I think the context of that one was the creation of the Armenian state on the fringe of the new Turkey. They wanted their own state so badly that they gave up a claim on maybe 2/3% of what was dejure the land of the Armenian nobility and people going back thousands of years.I don't think Israel should be your exhibit A for peaceful ethno-nationalism.
Around 80% of Armenians disappeared, not even the Jews were erased as comprehensively. The Nazis even boasted about how no one remembered them.I don't think Israel should be your exhibit A for peaceful ethno-nationalism.
Never forget that the group of people who suffered the most from ethnonationalism decided it was in their best interests after their genocide to form an ethnic nation state.
Dunno, are they claiming the Caucasus too?And hows that going for the Palestinians?
It's a much more interesting question when you don't stack the deck by saying Imperial Japan when you could use the example of modern Japan which is one of the most peaceful and successful societies on the planet by most measures.
According to census statistics, 98.5% of the population of Japan are Japanese, with the remainder being foreign nationals residing in Japan.[1] However, these statistics measure citizenship, not ethnicity, with all domestic minorities such as the Ainu, Ryukyuans, Burakumin and naturalized immigrants being counted as simply "Japanese."
Naturalized Japanese citizens and native-born Japanese nationals with multi-ethnic background are all considered to be Japanese in the population census of Japan,[33] therefore no ethnicity census data is available.
Based on 2012 data from the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research, Japan's population will keep declining by about one million people every year in the coming decades, which would leave Japan with a population of 42 million in 2110 (down from 130 million today). More than 40% of the population is expected to be over the age of 65 in 2060.
Dunno, are they claiming the Caucasus too?
Around 80% of Armenians disappeared, not even the Jews were erased as comprehensively. The Nazis even boasted about how no one remembered them.
Not that I've followed the thread well but to me it appears the main reason you and Mal are talking past one another is that he sees the nation state and the cultural and physical trappings of national identity as bad by definition.
Yes, nationalism can be exclusionary. Yes, nationalism can be xenophobic. Yes, nationalism can be built on violence. However the nation state can also simultaneously mean safety, solidarity, purpose and pride for the ingroup.
Can you show evidence of this? Repeating this every second post with nothing else is growing tiresome.Look what ethnic nationalism gets you.
Yet you support it.