Preview JLT1: Dockers vs Collingdidnt, Monday 4th March

[Mudd]

TBH the only melts I'm seeing in this thread are from people melting over non existent melts.

Go back through the melt thread if you want to see some actual melts.

I haven't seen anyone who has raised concerns about yesterday mention the final scoreline, it's about the process.

 

[theGav56]

With switta getting injured, Schultz must be given a run with his pressure, energy and goal sense. Matera and Ballas are just poor.

We have a deficit in terms of quality small forwards and Switkowski looked liked plugging that, at least in part.

I would like to see Crowden set the challenge of transforming into a pressure small forward, or at least adding that to his game. It is what we need, and so far I haven't been convinced that there is a spot for him in the best 22 as a midfielder.

Expecting all of Crowden, North and Schultz to play J2 if available.

 

[wayToGo_]

Agree but a few of those we already know what they can do, so i'm not sure performing to their level really rates as a positive for me. There are still too many spuds or at least only-just contributors.

Harsh marker Walters played midfield (not small forward like last year) and was only on the field 55% (less than Hogan - 57%). Lobb in his first semi-competitive game for us - beat/held his own against one of the best two rucks in the comp (Grundy completely dominated Jones - and so did the Pies when he did). Thought Hill was a far more balanced performance than he showed in any game last year - won the hard ball a few times, tackled a few times even. The youngsters - Tucker playing inside/run with role, Cox training as a defender playing forward, Brayshaw first game since being king hit. Think they are all worthy of some credit.

Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Phillips, Grundy, Beams were all in their best players - that's a seriously experienced and quality midfield. And all of them were on the ground a lot more than Walters (55%), Mundy (70%) and BHill (67%). We backed in our youth by giving them plenty of game time, shifted the magnets around a bit, didn't rotate players off the bench nearly as much as the Pies and still managed to be within a point half way through the 4th. The inside 50 efficiency was the difference in the end between the two teams. People complain about us playing an extra defender behind the ball. A lot of their scores came from a fast break over the back in 1 v 1 scenario that wouldn't have happened as much if we had played less attacking and more defensively. It's a pity it is a 6 day turnaround because our players will learn a lot from their game reviews this week. Get some more quality back, tidy up the inside 50 (composure/patience/less bombing), get the forwards to create space for each other better, get the structure right so it doesn't rebound the other way like a yo-yo and it'll all look a lot better.

Also, a shoutout to poor Switkowski. He only managed 3 disposals (2 were contested) before coming off injured. All three ended in scores. We really need him fit and available this season. Hopefully it's minor and he is back quickly. Don't think it was a coincidence our forward pressure dropped off once he got injured either.

 

[blue shark]

I think I read somewhere that WC had 63 inside 50's for 11 goals in the GF? We had 60 inside 50's against Pies so you
don't have to be a rocket scientist to see where we fall down.

 

[wild side]

I think I read somewhere that WC had 63 inside 50's for 11 goals in the GF? We had 60 inside 50's against Pies so you
don't have to be a rocket scientist to see where we fall down.

its all about the way it comes in as well. We bombed it, west coast bring it in like a proper footy team should.
Big difference.

 

[its free real estate]

Hard to expect a side that has hoofed the ball up forward for five years to start hitting targets inside 50 all of a sudden just because we’ve got some tall timber. Give it to about round 8 before we judge whether we’re still playing dumb footy.

 

[dropbear101]

The "no game plan/same old game plan/no plan b" are the biggest schmoes tell. You lose, your game plan is disrupted.

One thing that is very different is the number of i50's. Last year we were the 3rd lowest i50 side.

It could be that part of bedding the rapid movement plan down is using an interim catchphrase like "just get it in there", so they don't get distracted from the key aim which is quick transition into the F50.

As they build the familiarity with the movement, they can build the finishing finesse more easily.

This guy has got it.

 

[blue shark]

its all about the way it comes in as well. We bombed it, west coast bring it in like a proper footy team should.
Big difference.

Would love to see the Boss back the youth who can use the ball, sure we need extractors, but dual inside/outside players
need to be front and centre.
Guys like Tucker, Cerra, Valente, and they all have size to their frames.
We need two Walters, but i think his value is up forward.

 

[arsesmart]

its all about the way it comes in as well. We bombed it, west coast bring it in like a proper footy team should.
Big difference.

I am a bit confused. So yesterday Freo brought the ball inside 50 less than WC did in the GF (shudder) yet managed to score more goals, but somehow Freo did worse converting those entries?

 

[wild side]

Did you watch the game yesterday?

 

[blue shark]

I am a bit confused. So yesterday Freo brought the ball inside 50 less than WC did in the GF (shudder) yet managed to score more goals, but somehow Freo did worse converting those entries?

We kick it to the disadvantage of our forwards, intercept, rebound footy is what breaks us down. In the old days our
manic pressure would keep the ball in our forward half.
Teams that attack from defence love playing against us, and when they get on a roll we fail to negate.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'm in the group of people who were disappointed in how many times we bombed it long to the top of the square. It was not encouraging but I still think there was a lot to like and work with, and some valid disclaimers

1) Final score means nothing, in front in the last qtr of a JLT match in 40 degrees. Couldnt be more unconcerned with going down by close to 30 points
2) If Switta can keep his body together I really think we have a player on our hands. Seems ridiculous from how limited we've seen him but he applies an incredible amount of pressure and was massive that first qtr. Injury history starting to build up though...
3) Cox is going to be an absolute star, is already a better player than Taberner with that game being the perfect example.
4) Might be making excuses but you'd have to argue since our depth is pretty average that missing our best two midfielders impacts us just about more than any other team, its a big drop off in talent. To compete with the best midfield in the comp was a good effort
5) Happily surprised with how good Lobb was, will be the best ruck combo in the comp with Darcy for the next 4 years.
6) Want to see more of that marking from AP this year. Its what he'll need to do to take the next step
7) I have never seen a worse game of football from a defender than what Hamling put out, only up from here.
8) Ballas is so cooked its not even funny. Will remember the good times.
9) AB will be unstoppable with another 8kg of muscle. Will play 250 games of football
10) I think we have a serious issue against fast/small forwards. It's why I'm confused about the obvious non-rating of Nyhuis. He is clearly our best small defender, and by a long way. We have the attacking defenders in Wilson and Ryan, not sure why Nhyuis isnt getting more of a gig

 

[arsesmart]

Did you watch the game yesterday?

I am tempted to follow up your question to my question with another question. But yes, I did watch with a fairly open mind and being JLT it was easier with a lot less emotion involved.

It's a simple fact that WC kicked less goals for more entries (with a much more established forward line). Holding their performance up as a beacon doesn't say that much about better forward entries. No doubt Freo will be looking to drastically improve i50 efficiency, hopefully we can improve our efficiency of WC mentions entries here.

 

[wild side]

I am tempted to follow up your question to my question with another question. But yes, I did watch with a fairly open mind and being JLT it was easier with a lot less emotion involved.

It's a simple fact that WC kicked less goals for more entries (with a much more established forward line). Holding their performance up as a beacon doesn't say that much about better forward entries. No doubt Freo will be looking to drastically improve i50 efficiency, hopefully we can improve our efficiency of WC mentions entries here.

OK thanks, but my point was followed up by blue shark, we kicked it to a number of contests to the top of the goal square, didn't mark it, then they ran it out. Couple of times yesterday they went coast to coast, good to watch. We don't deliver the ball well to another player in our team, has been happening for a long time.
It's the coaches responsibility to correct this. they haven't and i'm getting pissed off watching it

 

[Daddoo]

its all about the way it comes in as well. We bombed it, west coast bring it in like a proper footy team should.
Big difference.

Exactly. As the dumbf**k Garry Lyon said twice during the broadcast, "Not much science to what the Dockers are doing." If that bloke with an IQ of a rock can see it, there's somewhere there. While there was some positives, we still saw the same game plan as last year. How many times did Freo have more than two-three-four disposals in a row. Yes, the forwards didn't look like they will in round 10 and our midfield was missing some key players, but I would have like to see some semblance of a different way to deliver i50s and moving the ball up the ground besides hacking it forward after one disposal. Would have loved to see more ball possession, supporting runs, and at least an attempt at some strategy. I don't expect us to compete for a flag, but if Ross can't take advantage of the new forward line and young developing players, it's gonna be a painful year to watch footy. This is on Ross. Our first three games before the derby are winnable, but...not so sure if we play like this.

 

[arsesmart]

OK thanks, but my point was followed up by blue shark, we kicked it to a number of contests to the top of the goal square, didn't mark it, then they ran it out. Couple of times yesterday they went coast to coast, good to watch. We don't deliver the ball well to another player in our team, has been happening for a long time.
It's the coaches responsibility to correct this. they haven't and i'm getting pissed off watching it

Syncing the forward line with each other and the rest of the team is a work in progress, it'll take a while, especially given Hogan's only been out of the rehab group for a couple of weeks. Funnily enough, the Magpies had a similar i50 entry total in the GF too, so the difference was beyond F50.

 

[WilloTree]

I think we have a serious issue against fast/small forwards.

As we get Blakely and Hill back this should be less of a concern, but you're right, yesterday Collingwood's small forwards went on a rampage at times. I was surprised how many they got over the back against a Ross Lyon team. It's basically the cardinal sin.

Hamling just didn't have a match-up (Elliott dominated him on the ground). The Magpies mids all push hard forward and hit the scoreboard as well (Varcoe 3, Sidebottom 1, Wills 1, Beams 1, Phillips 1). We have to start making them kick some dirty ball rather than have uncontested shots on goal.

I think we just need to start getting players back - as mentioned Hill and Blakely, but also some more pressure in the midfield with the return of Fyfe and more game time to Mundy. Conca has a good defensive side as well.

Don't know where to start with the forwards. Playing 4 talls didn't work except when Lobb was rucking and one of Tabener or Hogan was miles up the ground. Just have to make a call now and sit Taberner out until we can keep the ball popping out of the back 50 so easily. More game time from Mundy would be ideal here as well, and I think Banfield has to at the least play 60-80% forward. Walters as a mid just robs us in the area we need him most.

I think I'd like to see the forward 6 next week:
Walters, Cox, Mundy
Schultz, Hogan, Banfield

Lobb forward and ruck

Would love to see Sturt get some minutes as well.

 

[Lach72]

Harsh marker Walters played midfield (not small forward like last year) and was only on the field 55% (less than Hogan - 57%). Lobb in his first semi-competitive game for us - beat/held his own against one of the best two rucks in the comp (Grundy completely dominated Jones - and so did the Pies when he did). Thought Hill was a far more balanced performance than he showed in any game last year - won the hard ball a few times, tackled a few times even. The youngsters - Tucker playing inside/run with role, Cox training as a defender playing forward, Brayshaw first game since being king hit. Think they are all worthy of some credit.

Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Phillips, Grundy, Beams were all in their best players - that's a seriously experienced and quality midfield. And all of them were on the ground a lot more than Walters (55%), Mundy (70%) and BHill (67%). We backed in our youth by giving them plenty of game time, shifted the magnets around a bit, didn't rotate players off the bench nearly as much as the Pies and still managed to be within a point half way through the 4th. The inside 50 efficiency was the difference in the end between the two teams. People complain about us playing an extra defender behind the ball. A lot of their scores came from a fast break over the back in 1 v 1 scenario that wouldn't have happened as much if we had played less attacking and more defensively. It's a pity it is a 6 day turnaround because our players will learn a lot from their game reviews this week. Get some more quality back, tidy up the inside 50 (composure/patience/less bombing), get the forwards to create space for each other better, get the structure right so it doesn't rebound the other way like a yo-yo and it'll all look a lot better.

Also, a shoutout to poor Switkowski. He only managed 3 disposals (2 were contested) before coming off injured. All three ended in scores. We really need him fit and available this season. Hopefully it's minor and he is back quickly. Don't think it was a coincidence our forward pressure dropped off once he got injured either.

Interesting figures
Tucker 79%
Brayshaw 73%

Also interesting: Bewley 39% for 13 posssessions
Giro 59% for 13 possessions.

Looks like we were pushing our young mids in Tucker and Brayshaw a bit against a solid midfield. Given the clearance figures etc you'd say they did pretty well

May also account for the ease with which the pies moves the ball out when they did win it.
Pendlebury: 73%
Beams: 73%
Sidebottom: 81%
Phillips 85%
Grundy 84%

 

[Lach72]

As we get Blakely and Hill back this should be less of a concern, but you're right, yesterday Collingwood's small forwards went on a rampage at times. I was surprised how many they got over the back against a Ross Lyon team. It's basically the cardinal sin.

Hamling just didn't have a match-up (Elliott dominated him on the ground). The Magpies mids all push hard forward and hit the scoreboard as well (Varcoe 3, Sidebottom 1, Wills 1, Beams 1, Phillips 1). We have to start making them kick some dirty ball rather than have uncontested shots on goal.

I think we just need to start getting players back - as mentioned Hill and Blakely, but also some more pressure in the midfield with the return of Fyfe and more game time to Mundy. Conca has a good defensive side as well.

Don't know where to start with the forwards. Playing 4 talls didn't work except when Lobb was rucking and one of Tabener or Hogan was miles up the ground. Just have to make a call now and sit Taberner out until we can keep the ball popping out of the back 50 so easily. More game time from Mundy would be ideal here as well, and I think Banfield has to at the least play 60-80% forward. Walters as a mid just robs us in the area we need him most.

I think I'd like to see the forward 6 next week:
Walters, Cox, Mundy
Schultz, Hogan, Banfield

Lobb forward and ruck

Would love to see Sturt get some minutes as well.

If Fyfe is back next week this is what I'd do personally.

Cerra moves midfield. Conca comes in to assist midfield. One of Duman/Hughes gets the arse for Nyhuis.

Walters moves into the forward line.

Walters Lobb Matera

Hogan Cox Schultz

Langdon Fyfe Hill

Wilson Pearce Ryan

Logue Hamling Nyhuis

Darcy Brayshaw Cerra

INT from: Conca Colyer Bewley Giro Hughes Taberner Crowden North Ballantyne Duman

It's more balanced

 

[_007_]

I've been in Taberner's corner all year but damn Cox was good yesterday. I can't remember when it was, but he did a slick shimmy and handball to a runner that really moved me along the arousal curve. Also he kicked straight, which has been his only knock really. Tabs would want to put in a better effort week 2.

 

[WilloTree]

If Fyfe is back next week this is what I'd do personally.

Cerra moves midfield. Conca comes in to assist midfield. One of Duman/Hughes gets the arse for Nyhuis.

Walters moves into the forward line.

Walters Lobb Matera

Hogan Cox Schultz

Langdon Fyfe Hill

Wilson Pearce Ryan

Logue Hamling Nyhuis

Darcy Brayshaw Cerra

INT from: Conca Colyer Bewley Giro Hughes Taberner Crowden North Ballantyne Duman

It's more balanced

That looks pretty good to me as well. Hughes had a good game yesterday. Would give him JLT2 at least.

 

[Lach72]

I've been in Taberner's corner all year but damn Cox was good yesterday. I can't remember when it was, but he did a slick shimmy and handball to a runner that really moved me along the arousal curve. Also he kicked straight, which has been his only knock really. Tabs would want to put in a better effort week 2.

Has anyone else noticed he moves like Pavlich? Just something in his gait.
I thought Lobb was more effective when not rucking, so having Darcy will be very handy

 

[Lach72]

That looks pretty good to me as well. Hughes had a good game yesterday. Would give him JLT2 at least.

Hughes had a 50/50 game.

50% good stuff and 50% wtf

 

[apuchar]

If Fyfe is back next week this is what I'd do personally.

Cerra moves midfield. Conca comes in to assist midfield. One of Duman/Hughes gets the arse for Nyhuis.

Walters moves into the forward line.

Walters Lobb Matera

Hogan Cox Schultz

Langdon Fyfe Hill

Wilson Pearce Ryan

Logue Hamling Nyhuis

Darcy Brayshaw Cerra

INT from: Conca Colyer Bewley Giro Hughes Taberner Crowden North Ballantyne Duman

It's more balanced

Looks about right. One defensive small back would be nice.
I gather you were at the game Lach. What did you make of Tucker's game?

 

[Nothing]

Interesting figures
Tucker 79%
Brayshaw 73%

Also interesting: Bewley 39% for 13 posssessions
Giro 59% for 13 possessions.

Looks like we were pushing our young mids in Tucker and Brayshaw a bit against a solid midfield. Given the clearance figures etc you'd say they did pretty well

May also account for the ease with which the pies moves the ball out when they did win it.
Pendlebury: 73%
Beams: 73%
Sidebottom: 81%
Phillips 85%
Grundy 84%

That is one of the best midfields in the AFL, playing the same percentage of time they would in a real game (more or less). They won first possession often, from the best ruck last year (arguably). Even with all that, we only really faded in the last 10 minutes of the game. If the coaches wanted to shut that down they could have played Mundy and Walters more.

I'm always surprised at what people take from preseason games. Some want games into the kids, others want to win. Against that midfield (with those minutes) the two are incongruous.