caspian
Team Captain
- Jan 6, 2019
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Analysis "The game plan"
- Thread starter Deliverance
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No, you are just confusing not having a clue, with an absence of tactics or gameplan.
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- #55
Yeah nah. Listening to Buckley on the radio today, his analysis was they tried to win by switching the play, but it didn't work. No mention of any other tactic or strategy. High level stuff. 
Experts interviewing him also hadn't noticed anything else to the pies game other than switching the play that was worth analysing. Emperor's New Clothes.
Experts interviewing him also hadn't noticed anything else to the pies game other than switching the play that was worth analysing. Emperor's New Clothes.
Yeah nah. Listening to Buckley on the radio today, his analysis was they tried to win by switching the play, but it didn't work. No mention of any other tactic or strategy. High level stuff.
Experts interviewing him also hadn't noticed anything else to the pies game other than switching the play that was worth analysing. Emperor's New Clothes.
And again. Dude confuses his own lack of comprehension with insight
Because I watch the Suns more than others I can see how we play.
We play super defensive, almost flooding the defensive 50. All the players have a man and stand 'back shoulder' of their opponent, we don't really zone outside of kick ins. Then we just run in waves out of our backline and try and score over the top i.e Alex Sexton running onto the pill. That is just what I have noticed and picked up by watching us this year. Seems simple enough and the lads seem to be executing it some what competently.
We play super defensive, almost flooding the defensive 50. All the players have a man and stand 'back shoulder' of their opponent, we don't really zone outside of kick ins. Then we just run in waves out of our backline and try and score over the top i.e Alex Sexton running onto the pill. That is just what I have noticed and picked up by watching us this year. Seems simple enough and the lads seem to be executing it some what competently.
So much this in this thread.
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of each team's plan but **** me surely everyone can see the distinct difference between say West Coast and Richmond at least?
"We have no game plan" must be one of the most common posts in an autopsy thread on here. Yeah, I am sure clubs are happy to pay coaches $$$ to just tell players to go out and kick more goals than the other team.
I mean, **** me. How many of you have whinged about Roos-ball or Lyon-ball? What the **** do you think that is? Its a GAMEPLAN. Why did the Hawks have way more marks than the oppo in their wins circa 2012-2015 - you guessed it, its a GAMEPLAN.
When you lose, especially badly of course it looks like you don't have one because your players sucked at executing it and/or the opposition didn't let you execute it.
KermitJagger
Professional Thread Derailer
- May 17, 2017
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I don't think they're part of the same whole, and even if they were there are so many more variables that factor into that equation.
Quality of the player, quality of the game plan, ability of the coach to convey the game plan, ability of the player to perform that game plan, ability of the player to lead others in performing that game plan and so on.
The coach needs to take into account the players he has, their general makeup and their ability. Granted a lot of this stuff gets delegated to assistants and performance coaches now, but the general structure and strategy of an AFL game is far more important than quality of the players.
You could have a team full of players like Gary Ablett Sr, who was mercurial but didn't give a stuff about the game or overall team strategy, and you'd probably get flogged by a team full of hard working foot soldiers who understand strategy and can execute it.
Damian Hardwick spent a while trying to emulate Hawthorn's game plan with a list that had some very high quality players, but it didn't work. They came undone in the finals before having a dismal season in 2016 where they took stock of where they were.
As soon as he adjusted his strategy to suit the tools he had at his disposal, lo and behold they win a premiership and everyone is lauding them as having the best top 4 players of any club in all the land.
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- #60
Watch the game carefully. Listen to player interviews, coaches interviews and expert analysis. You'll see the light eventually and get to my level of comprehension champo.
KermitJagger
Professional Thread Derailer
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Watch the game carefully. Listen to player interviews, coaches interviews and expert analysis. You'll see the light eventually and get to my level of comprehension champo.
So what you're telling me is that a people speak in simplistic ways about visual strategies that need statistics and analytics to explain in any great detail?
That doesn't make team tactics simplistic or non existent, it just means that the person talking about the strategy understands that statistical and mathematical analyses don't really translate to spoken word well at all. Ask anyone who has studied physics in any detail how difficult it is to explain the concepts versus drawing them out.
Watch the game carefully. Listen to player interviews, coaches interviews and expert analysis. You'll see the light eventually and get to my level of comprehension champo.
You are peak Dunning Krueger
WOW.
You can't tell the difference between Richmond's slingshot fast game plan based on territory gain, pressure and fast ball movement compared to the Hawks game plan the Eagles have adopted in slow movement, kicking, spreading, non contested style game plan?
Like really?
Then compare it to a club with a younger list who are struggling to implement their style and get flogged by the top four sides.
WOW!!
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- #64
You've pretty much just reworded my post for me thanks.
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- #65
FTFY
- May 5, 2006
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And your game plan is a modified rip off of the premiership team Hawks game plan. Wonder where he got the inspiration from.
Who is that young man with brown hair standing behind Clarkson?
Aaaaah the projection is palpable
How about you pick another sport (excluding the American football) and explain its strategic and tactical aspects that have no analogous equivalent in Australian football?
Edit: Your credibility rests on this absolutely
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You've pretty much just reworded my post for me thanks.
Ah no I didnt. Not even close. I described two very different game plans, Richmonds v Eagles/Hawks. You are saying game plans are a myth, which is incorrect.
Is this some weird tactic of yours maybe?
Yeah nah. Listening to Buckley on the radio today, his analysis was they tried to win by switching the play, but it didn't work. No mention of any other tactic or strategy. High level stuff.
Experts interviewing him also hadn't noticed anything else to the pies game other than switching the play that was worth analysing. Emperor's New Clothes.
Yep because coaches get a huge benefit from spilling the beans on their game plans in detail and also detailing how they were beaten by an oppositions game plan.
Scott on AFL360 was asked about being mic'ed up during quarter time breaks. He said na wouldn't do it as they discussed plans that were private. Dew then said he had that talked with the mic's off and they only viewed the the final broader instructions to the players not the detailed plans.
The reason it all sounds the same from coaches is they like to talk in broad general terms and not specifics. That is done behind closed doors or at least with no cameras or mikes on.
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Yeah nah. Listening to Buckley on the radio today, his analysis was they tried to win by switching the play, but it didn't work. No mention of any other tactic or strategy. High level stuff.
Experts interviewing him also hadn't noticed anything else to the pies game other than switching the play that was worth analysing. Emperor's New Clothes.
Just listened to Buckley's interview
He didn't say they "tried to win by switching play" at any point which would be no shock to any one who actually understands the game. "The switch" as a plausible stand alone game style of ball movement might have been a thing in the late 90's. Against, say, an aggressive pressing zone it is pretty much useless in and of itself.
Against Richmond, Collingwood passed the ball up and back across half back to disrupt and tire Richmond's zone so that they could find a passage through in numbers and get a meaningful forward entry. They employed this approach far less against either Geelong or West Coast
This is clear as day when you look at the mark stats.
Collingwood had 7 players take 10 or more marks....of these
-the top 3 were defenders
-one was a chop-out leading forward (5 of which were contested marks)
-the other three are the gut running, largely defensive midfielders
Maynard last week was the only other player to take 10 marks in a game for us this year
But yeah, nah, it's the people who think the 50 odd people working full time in football departments are implementing 90s amateur level game plans that are "woke" sport followers
Did you watch the Hawks v Crows game?
Clarkson beat us.
Clarkson beat us.
It's pretty dissimilar from the Hawks gameplan.And your game plan is a modified rip off of the premiership team Hawks game plan. Wonder where he got the inspiration from.
WC don't employ the same defensive zones, have a larger focus on contested ball, structure their forwardline differently, play to their strengths in contested marking rather than overlap handball, pressure players into kicking or handballing to the wrongs spots to force interception rather than aggressively zero in on the ball carrier.
Both sides generate scores in different ways. The only similar things are that they are/were good kicking teams, that can be patient in attack. But the Hawks were much more direct tending to use a combination of overlap handball and short kicking to catch teams off guard before their defence could settle. In 2019, sides are much quicker at setting up behind the play. WC uses long kicking to shift zones before using a combination of hard running and strong contested marking to exploit the gaps. It's a gameplan that doesn't work with strongly dissimilar personnel.
EDIT: think about it like this, Hawthorn was maybe the best ground level team I have ever seen, with nippy forwards that would clean up after a Buddy, Gunston or Roughead brought the ball to ground or push up to the contest and pick off opposition ball transitioning from the inside to outside.
WC have improved their ground level ability, but where they kill you is via interception or forcing turnover by pushing teams/players into situations they don't want to be in. It's a gameplan designed around their list. Strong overhead marks, brilliant readers of the play and some absolute gut busting runners.
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If we are talking about tactics, the new zone rules are hurting teams that built a gameplan around getting numbers to the contest and sitting a player behind the ball.
Melbourne
Sydney
NM
Richmond
Melbourne with it's leaky defence and reliance on pure numbers of strong inside players, Sydney the masters of sitting people behind play or swarming the contest, Richmond who hold their structure a little better, but use HF's to rush the middle at the bounce to apply pressure and use hard running and an extra man to create a wall in defence and free up Rance/a tall. If tactics were a fictional thing, these teams wouldn't be struggling as much as they are now given the shift in gamestyle the rules changes have forced.
Melbourne
Sydney
NM
Richmond
Melbourne with it's leaky defence and reliance on pure numbers of strong inside players, Sydney the masters of sitting people behind play or swarming the contest, Richmond who hold their structure a little better, but use HF's to rush the middle at the bounce to apply pressure and use hard running and an extra man to create a wall in defence and free up Rance/a tall. If tactics were a fictional thing, these teams wouldn't be struggling as much as they are now given the shift in gamestyle the rules changes have forced.
Never suggested it wasn't. But I wasn't talking about our gameplan, I was responding to the claim that peopke should study Collingwood's strategy of beating Richmond when it's exactly how we beat them nearly 12 months ago and, as has been pointed out to me, how Adelaide beat them even before that.And your game plan is a modified rip off of the premiership team Hawks game plan. Wonder where he got the inspiration from.
