Siss reminds me of Peter Nights and Worpel of Selwood. We killed it with these two picks. Blues can’t pick these two types with all the nu 1 picks its had in recent times. Elite picks means s##t. Give me Worpel instead of any of the Bomber young mids any day of the week.
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Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?
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Siss reminds me of Peter Nights and Worpel of Selwood. We killed it with these two picks. Blues can’t pick these two types with all the nu 1 picks its had in recent times. Elite picks means s##t. Give me Worpel instead of any of the Bomber young mids any day of the week.
Will always be the oldest list as Silk shall not retire.
Yeah nah worpel is not selwood. Haha I love the denial. It's over guys. Make no mistake it was a dynasty but it's over. Don't pull a north Melbourne and stay middle of the road for a long time. You need real elite players not worpel not scrimshaw. Sicily is elite but that's it. Do your time like every one else. Although not as long as us. Time to let go mate. The next phase acceptance
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See. I dont think Worpel is going to lead us into the promise land, You labeled Scrimshaw as not elite, I think even missing the last 3/4 he's going to be close to our F+B with Impey. I cant rate the guy highly enough. I think he has much more potential the Sicily. His left foot is more damaging and he's that true KPP height.
Worpel is a beast, tough as nails and has amazing leadership qualities.
Coming from a blues fan that has followed a rabble of a club last two decades. Your lot wouldn’t have a clue about what’s needed for success. Hawks are building towards more silverware very soon and the melts will be extremely satisfying to watch. Hawks will bottom out this year, make the 8 next year and push top 4 the next and perhaps even win it again. Blues will still be bottom 4 .... let’s revisit I will remember for you in particular!
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Not quite accurate. Most of the senior players won’t be on the list. See below.
Roughead 32
Puopolo 31
Birchall 31
Mohr 30
Schoenmakers 28
Mirra 28
Where does the Hawks average rank now? It drops to 8th or 9th!
The players who took the field tonight. Let me know what your definition of “old” is.
Impey 23
Worpel 20
Sicily 24
O’Meara 24
Lewis 20
Nash 20
Glass 21
Hardwick 22
Howe 23
Gunston 27
Scully 28
Breust 28
O’Brien 24
Shiels 28
Hanrahan 20
He isn't elite right now. I can't see it GC didn't see it.
Ok mate. Good luck with that. Lels Hahaha the denial. Content for days. @ at me when you do k.
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Sonny Hayes
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23 year old Jarman Impey getting slept on big time. The guy has been super consistent all year and over the past month has been elite.
Strong defensively, great rebounding and probably one of the best overhead marks for a defender his size. People struggling to shake the reputation he got from when he was younger.
Strong defensively, great rebounding and probably one of the best overhead marks for a defender his size. People struggling to shake the reputation he got from when he was younger.
Samael
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Most of the senior players won't be on the list?
Are we going to overlook you're still heavily dependent on McEvoy, Ceglar, Frawley, Smith & others?
Well, the bolded players aren't exactly young. Also, you're conveniently rounding down ages to the point of being outright incorrect. O'Meara is 25, O'Brien is 25, etc.
Sure you have some good young players, every team does, but when you've been sacrificing the draft for ready-made talent for so long, it takes a toll on the quality of your youth. It's the difference between players like Howe/Lewis/Hardwick and say, Bailey Smith, Aaron Naughton and Josh Dunkley. Similar comparisons can be made with Carlton or even Gold Coast's high-end talent.
Yes, we are heavily dependent on Ceglar, a player who wasn't considered best 22 tonight. He's also still 28. McEvoy is still under 30 (although not for much longer). Some people think Smith has been going through the motions all year (although I'm not sure I agree). Frawley is certainly still very much relied upon. You've named 4, none of who have hit 31 yet, so could conceivably have 2-3 years left in them. Of those over 30, only Frawley is crucial (Smith will be a luxury once Scully is fully up to speed).
We have a couple more best 22 players over 30 than most teams, but few of them are doing the heavy lifting these days. Look at our B&F top 10 from last year, the older guys simply didn't feature that strongly. All teams have some experienced players in their list of really key players, it is when you are heavily relying on a bunch of 30+ players to fill your best 10 players that transitioning them out is a concern. We are not really in that situation. We've already suffered some pain when we've had to transition out Gibson, Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge. We've got some decent replacements for several of those players already, and when we replace McEvoy in 3 or 4 years time, I'm sure we'll find someone to replace him too. Frawley is a little more pressing, being a year older, but he's still playing very good footy right now, so finding his successor can probably easily wait a year or two. We've actually only got 2 players that are 31 or older in our best 22 right now, and that is poppy and Burgoyne. This is not an unusually high number when comparing to other clubs. Poppy isn't scoring, so we'll not feel the loss of his scoreboard contribution, but will feel the loss of his forward pressure. Burgoyne will obviously leave a hole, but even he is contributing less than he ever has before, which means his loss will not be as great as it would have been had he left in his prime.
We do have a cluster of 30 year olds, some of which are still key contributors, and I suspect Clarko would hope several of those will play decent footy for another 3-4 years and fit within another tilt. It would certainly make it easier if we could squeeze in another competitive year inside the next 3 instead of the next 4-5. With Mitchel/O'Meara/Wingard's ages they can still target a 5 year window without those trades looking stupid, but its a much bigger rebuild at 5 years than a shot in 3 years would entail. I suspect they are planning to be competitive again by 2021-2022. It is possible we may only have Poppy and Burgoyne retired from the team by the end of 2020, although it can be hard to predict how quick 30+ year old players will go down hill. Roughy is the only player still on the list that looks completely cooked right now. Burgoyne wants to go one more year if the club wants him. Poppy would be borderline IMO.
I'd take Hardwick over any similarly aged small defender on the bulldogs list right now, and it wouldn't even be close. I'd also take O'Meara and Mitchell over Smith and Dunkley, given those dogs players are the types we could have got in the draft had we decided to keep picks instead of trade them for O'Meara and Mitchell. Naughton is perhaps the most promising young KP player in the competition right now, and I'd certainly bet on him playing 200+ games before Lewis, but on paper Naughton isn't massively ahead of Lewis right now, despite having had more opportunity at AFL level. Howe is probably one of the last picked in the side, and was having trouble breaking into the side with perhaps the shallowest midfield in the competition this year. Why choose him in your comparison bunch instead of say Scrimshaw, Worpel or Impey who is also 23 like Howe? Or perhaps even Sicily who is less than a year older than Howe?
In any case, you can't rattle off the result of bulldogs early picks and compare them to our younger players without also looking at the flip side to that which is the bringing in of Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard (who refused to be traded to Bulldogs, as an aside).
Samael
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Whoa there, you're comparing a first year player like Bailey Smith to guys like Mitchell and O'Meara? Who have been around for like 7-8 years? Cmon, if you're going to compare those guys to anyone on our list, it's Bontempelli and Macrae, but even that's not really relevant. I only mentioned Howe/Lewis/Hardwick because I know they're among your under 23 age bracket. Also, Josh Dunkley was a second round pick.
The real comparison with these players should be made with the assets you gave up. The Tom Mitchell trade was obviously a no-brainer, but for O'Meara, you gave up 2017 pick 7, 2017 pick 26, 2016 pick 36 and Brad Hill. Between O'Meara and what you gave up, I know what I'd rather have. For Wingard you gave up pick 15, Ryan Burton and pick 35. Again, not sure about you, but I know what I'm choosing, especially with an eye on the long term.
Again, because they're mostly older. Impey and Sicily are in the same age bracket as Bont. Hawthorn's dearth of talent is in the 18-23 year old bracket.
I'm counting my lucky stars every day.
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Nash and Glass are possibly the two worst players in the league who are currently getting games. If those two weren't playing last night it's very possible Hawthorn would have won by 6 goals.
Can't argue there.
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A nice win by the Hawks
Friday night victories always made sweeter by fact one can sit back over the weekend and watch various crises unfold and engulf other clubs
Friday night victories always made sweeter by fact one can sit back over the weekend and watch various crises unfold and engulf other clubs
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So is Hardwick.
Who are the better small defenders? He gets a run in every team.
Our biggest issue now is tall forwards. Lewis wont be our saving grace but he gets us half way.
Jhye Clark 13
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Hardwick is far from elite.
Strapping Young Lad
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He is playing the Gibson role to a tee. Been a superb player this year.
Gibson won two B&F's in premiership years.....people still didn't rate him. Meh.
So a Carlton supporter can't see it, nor can the Gold Coast see it boy oh boy two clubs inept at talent development. Do we just ignore his performances thus far for Hawthorn.
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I agree, can't understand how they are getting games ahead of Ross, and Jiath.
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