Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Samael]

Mitch Lewis is 20, and stacks up almost identically statisticly to Aaron Naughton. For a 20 year old key you would be delighted with how he's going.

I wouldn't compare Mitch Lewis to Aaron Naughton if I were you. I really wouldn't...

 

[Strattonsphere]

I wouldn't compare Mitch Lewis to Aaron Naughton if I were you. I really wouldn't...

Well he did so...

 

[Jobe Watson]

This thread is just great. Mitchell Lewis, a guy who a week ago couldn't get a game for a bottom 4 team that can't buy a goal, is now comparable to Naughton. Mitchell Lewis, so unproven that Hawthorn would rather play James Sicily as a forward instead of him, stacks up well against Naughton, a kid who nearly broke the record for most contested marks in just his 25th game. Amazing.

Have to pity the delusional mindset that some Hawthorn supporters have found themselves in. Coping mechanism I guess. Like the guy who gets dumped but doesn't want to accept that the relationship is over.

 

[WWSD]

This thread is just great. Mitchell Lewis, a guy who a week ago couldn't get a game for a bottom 4 team that can't buy a goal, is now comparable to Naughton. Mitchell Lewis, so unproven that Hawthorn would rather play James Sicily as a forward instead of him, stacks up well against Naughton, a kid who nearly broke the record for most contested marks in just his 25th game. Amazing.

Have to admire the delusional mindset that some Hawthorn supporters have found themselves in. Copping mechanism I guess. Like the guy who gets dumped but doesn't want to accept that the relationship is over.

Jobe Watson
Loken
Jade

AKA the three stooges

 

[Cadillac]

Haha Mitchell Lewis comparible to Naughton is a funny one.

As previous poster said, I thank my lucky stars that Chad Wingard chose the Hawks over us and instead we had to settle for Bailey Smith with pick 7 . What a star this kid is going to be.

Surely stars around the league are coming to the realisation that if you want success, Hawthorn probably “ain’t it”. Just ask Mitchell, Impey, O’meara, Scully and Wingard.

Because the club has traded away all their early picks and the kids around the 18-21 mark for ready made players. That decline is going to be hard to watch.

 

[WWSD]

Haha Mitchell Lewis comparible to Naughton is a funny one.

As previous poster said, I thank my lucky stars that Chad Wingard chose the Hawks over us and instead we had to settle for Bailey Smith with pick 7 . What a star this kid is going to be.

Surely stars around the league are coming to the realisation that if you want success, Hawthorn probably “ain’t it”. Just ask Mitchell, Impey, O’meara, Scully and Wingard.

Because the club has traded away all their early picks and the kids around the 18-21 mark for ready made players. That decline is going to be hard to watch.

Nobody goes to the Bulldogs because they are a minnow club.

Coniglio will be the next Hawthorn signing.
I look forward to you and many other opposition supporters on here melting hard about how Hawthorn have benefited from
free agency.

 

[Cadillac]

Nobody goes to the Bulldogs because they are a minnow club.

Coniglio will be the next Hawthorn signing.
I look forward to you and many other opposition supporters on here melting hard about how Hawthorn have benefited from
free agency.

Haha to be honest I’m hoping like hell that Coniglio goes to Hawthorn. Because he will win SFA with that playing group. Making over a million a year and chewing up the remaining salary cap that you guys have. Just floating above water struggling to make up the numbers in the bottom 8. Or maybe even scrape in the 8 if you’re lucky.


You’ve spent all this money on trades and free agents and we are still above your lot on the ladder.

And we will be even further in front once we spend some cash over the next couple of years.

If you continue to play BOG average footy, than the players who have chosen to come to hawthorn will probably start having regrets.
You’re declining at a rapid rate.

I’ve never seen a bunch of supporters overrate their own like yours do. It’s laughable really.

 

[WWSD]

Haha to be honest I’m hoping like hell that Coniglio goes to Hawthorn. Because he will win SFA with that playing group. Making over a million a year and chewing up the remaining salary cap that you guys have. Just floating above water struggling to make up the numbers in the bottom 8. Or maybe even scrape in the 8 if you’re lucky.


You’ve spent all this money on trades and free agents and we are still above your lot on the ladder.

And we will be even further in front once we spend some cash over the next couple of years.

If you continue to play BOG average footy, than the players who have chosen to come to hawthorn will probably start having regrets.
You’re declining at a rapid rate.

I’ve never seen a bunch of supporters overrate their own like yours do. It’s laughable really.

Hawthorn haven’t spent all their money hence why they are going after multiple trade targets! Nobody is interested in joining the Bulldogs. Money can’t buy success. One Premiership in 50 years tells me just how crap they are. That’s why your club picks up scraps that nobody else wants.

 

[Cadillac]

Hawthorn haven’t spent all their money hence why they are going after multiple trade targets! Nobody is interested in joining the Bulldogs. Money can’t buy success. One Premiership in 50 tells me so. That’s why your club picks up scraps that nobody else wants.

You’re calling Lloyd scraps. Yet he’s had a far more significant impact than Wingard has. And we didn’t mortgage the future by getting him. And would be on around $300k a year. Compared to Wingard on over $700K.

We won a flag under 3 years ago on the back of shrewd drafting. Not bringing in high profiled players from other clubs. We develop our own. You guys are bringing players in just to tread water.
You’re miles off genuinely competing again. And you think Coniglio will be the difference?

Yeah, we might be a minnow club off the field in comparison to hawthorn. But we’ve won a flag more recently than the Hawks have. And we are currently above you on the ladder.
With a very young side who’s only going get better. It’s a good time to be a dogs fan .

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Hawthorn haven’t spent all their money hence why they are going after multiple trade targets! Nobody is interested in joining the Bulldogs. Money can’t buy success. One Premiership in 50 years tells me just how crap they are. That’s why your club picks up scraps that nobody else wants.

How old are you? You sound like an insecure teenager.

 

[WWSD]

You’re calling Lloyd scraps. Yet he’s had a far more significant impact than Wingard has. And we didn’t mortgage the future by getting him. And he isn’t on 700K + a season.

We won a flag under 3 years ago on the back of shrewd drafting. Not bringing in high profiled players from other clubs. We develop our own. You guys are bringing players in just to tread water.
You’re miles off genuinely competing again. And you think Coniglio will be the difference?

Yeah, we might be a minnow club off the field in comparison to hawthorn. But we’ve won a flag more recently than the Hawks have. And we are currently above you on the ladder.
With a very young side who’s only going get better. It’s a good time to be a dogs fan .

Wingard is on 600,000. There are other Hawthorn players earning more money. Nice try though.

Dogs fans said the same thing during the early-mid 2000s about how their list was packed to the brim with youth and high draft picks. How did that work out?

That strategy has worked out so well for Carlton, Essendon, St Kilda and Melbourne. Every year we hear the same crap trotted out. How many Premierships do those teams have to show for years of mediocrity? ZERO

You can have the Bulldogs finishing above the Hawks on the ladder this year. Last time I checked teams were judged on final ladder position and not Premierships won.

 

[Cadillac]

Wingard is on 600,000. There are other Hawthorn players earning more money. Nice try though.

Dogs fans said the same thing during the early-mid 2000s about how their list was packed to the brim with youth and high draft picks. How did that work out?

That strategy has worked out so well for Carlton, Essendon, St Kilda and Melbourne. Every year we hear the same crap trotted out. How many Premierships do those teams have to show for years of mediocrity? ZERO

You can have the Bulldogs finishing above the Hawks on the ladder this year. Last time I checked teams were judged on final ladder position and not Premierships won.

So you’re paying him 600k? Can you confirm that? And what assets did you give up to get him? Surely not a first round draft pick and the best young player on your list?

In the mid 2000’s we were rebuilding our list and eventually played in 3 consecutive preliminary finals. Albeit not good enough to make the grand final. We rebuilt again and eventually won a flag in 2016. So I’m not exactly sure we are the failed example you would be looking for.

I’m not talking about Carlton, Saints and Essendon. I was talking about the Bulldogs. And we’ve shown a successful blue print in building our list over the years. We are probably two genuine guns off competing again. (That’s a lot closer than hawthorn are currently).

And your last paragraph made zero sense. Call it a night. You’ve got no idea. And it might be a good time to cut out the chest puffing. Hawthorn have been an amazing team over the years. But it’s 2019. And nobody gives a **** what you’ve done in the past. If you continue to play shit footy.

Again, I wanted to thank you for trading for Wingard. Because if you didn’t he was going to become a Bulldog. And if that happened we would have traded our draft pick that ended up being Bailey Smith. And I can confidently say that Bailey Smith is on track to being an absolute superstar. And will most likely have a much better career at the Dogs than Wingard will at the Hawks.

 

[WWSD]

So you’re paying him 600k? Can you confirm that? And what assets did you give up to get him? Surely not a first round draft pick and the best young player on your list?

In the mid 2000’s we were rebuilding our list and eventually played in 3 consecutive preliminary finals. Albeit not good enough to make the grand final. We rebuilt again and eventually won a flag in 2016. So I’m not exactly sure we are the failed example you would be looking for.

I’m not talking about Carlton, Saints and Essendon. I was talking about the Bulldogs. And we’ve shown a successful blue print in building our list over the years. We are probably two genuine guns off competing again. (That’s a lot closer than hawthorn are currently).

And your last paragraph made zero sense. Call it a night. You’ve got no idea. And it might be a good time to cut out the chest puffing. Hawthorn have been an amazing team over the years. But it’s 2019. And nobody gives a fu** what you’ve done in the past. If you continue to play s**t footy.

Again, I wanted to thank you for trading for Wingard. Because if you didn’t he was going to become a Bulldog. And if that happened we would have traded our draft pick that ended up being Bailey Smith. And I can confidently say that Bailey Smith is on track to being an absolute superstar. And will most likely have a much better career at the Dogs than Wingard will at the Hawks.

Best younger player? That’s funny.

I’m 99.99% sure Sicily, Worpel and Hardwick are all better than Burton right now. I couldn’t care if Hawthorn gave up 1, 2 or even 3 first round picks to get Wingard.

Hawthorn payed a hefty price at the trade table for Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Hale, McEvoy etc and we all know how successful those trades turned out to be.

It’s too soon to write off his career. Tell me
something. Did Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale dominate and play much games in their first year at Hawthorn? No.

 

[Cadillac]

Best younger player? That’s funny.

I’m 99.99% sure Sicily, Worpel and Hardwick are all better than Burton right now. I couldn’t care if Hawthorn gave up 1, 2 or even 3 first round picks to get Wingard.

Hawthorn payed a hefty price at the trade table for Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Hale, McEvoy etc and we all know how successful those trades turned out to be.

It’s too soon to write off his career. Tell me
something. Did Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale dominate and play much games in their first year at Hawthorn? No.

You guys did well in those trades for those players. But it’s easy for those blokes to fit in a side which consists of Buddy, Roughead, Lewis, Mitchell, hodge etc.

You guys can keep on topping up and it will be interesting to see where it gets you. And we will keep nailing our picks in the draft and developing within.

Just go easy on the whole chest pumping superiority complex. Because your club has achieved **** all on field since 2015. And it’s desperately doing everything it can to remain relevant and keep Clarkson interesting by continuously topping up every year.

 

[tommyk72]

We won a flag under 3 years ago on the back of shrewd drafting. Not bringing in high profiled players from other clubs. We develop our own. You guys are bringing players in just to tread water.

*cough* Tom Boyd *cough*

Sure. Bringing in externals plays not role in winning flags. Clearly haven't won enough to have a decent sample size to know what works and what doesn't.

 

[TigerTime88]

Best younger player? That’s funny.

I’m 99.99% sure Sicily, Worpel and Hardwick are all better than Burton right now. I couldn’t care if Hawthorn gave up 1, 2 or even 3 first round picks to get Wingard.

Hawthorn payed a hefty price at the trade table for Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake, Hale, McEvoy etc and we all know how successful those trades turned out to be.

It’s too soon to write off his career. Tell me
something. Did Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale dominate and play much games in their first year at Hawthorn? No.

The difference with the top ups mentioned above to now is the Hawks built a core first.

Mitchell, Hodge, Buddy, Roughy, Birchall, Rioli, Lewis ect were the foundations of that team. This time the Hawks aren’t drafting any gun kids but instead trading for them.

At best a Coniglio will lift the Hawks to just outside/inside the eight. Some serious issues down there being excused because “Clarko knows what he is doing”.

 

[beta_condition]

So you’re paying him 600k? Can you confirm that? And what assets did you give up to get him? Surely not a first round draft pick and the best young player on your list?

In the mid 2000’s we were rebuilding our list and eventually played in 3 consecutive preliminary finals. Albeit not good enough to make the grand final. We rebuilt again and eventually won a flag in 2016. So I’m not exactly sure we are the failed example you would be looking for.

I’m not talking about Carlton, Saints and Essendon. I was talking about the Bulldogs. And we’ve shown a successful blue print in building our list over the years. We are probably two genuine guns off competing again. (That’s a lot closer than hawthorn are currently).

And your last paragraph made zero sense. Call it a night. You’ve got no idea. And it might be a good time to cut out the chest puffing. Hawthorn have been an amazing team over the years. But it’s 2019. And nobody gives a fu** what you’ve done in the past. If you continue to play s**t footy.

Again, I wanted to thank you for trading for Wingard. Because if you didn’t he was going to become a Bulldog. And if that happened we would have traded our draft pick that ended up being Bailey Smith. And I can confidently say that Bailey Smith is on track to being an absolute superstar. And will most likely have a much better career at the Dogs than Wingard will at the Hawks.

See and when you reach too far you end up looking like a clueless idiot, do you really think Burton was our best young? He wasn't even the best player we drafted that year.

Also for you asking about whether Wingars is on 600k, Hawthorn don't need to over pay player unlike some other clubs *cough*. Signed up for pretty much the exact same deal at Hawthorn give or take.

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[Sonny Hayes]

Some of you really struggle to comprehend that the comparison to Naughton was purely statistically. They were almost identical this year.

Naughton is a better player at the moment but he had played more games and Lewis was always a bit of a project player that would take some time but i have no idea how anyone can possibly not rate him. Leading or second top goals in the VFL last year (CBF looking which it was) and has now come in and shown that he belongs at AFL level this year. He still needs to put on more size but as far as KPF players go he is progressing as well as most young ones in the AFL at the moment.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Haha to be honest I’m hoping like hell that Coniglio goes to Hawthorn. Because he will win SFA with that playing group. Making over a million a year and chewing up the remaining salary cap that you guys have. Just floating above water struggling to make up the numbers in the bottom 8. Or maybe even scrape in the 8 if you’re lucky.


You’ve spent all this money on trades and free agents and we are still above your lot on the ladder.

And we will be even further in front once we spend some cash over the next couple of years.

If you continue to play BOG average footy, than the players who have chosen to come to hawthorn will probably start having regrets.
You’re declining at a rapid rate.

I’ve never seen a bunch of supporters overrate their own like yours do. It’s laughable really.

You think Naughton is also the number 1 pick in his draft over Kelly... Don't think you should be taking shots at us for overrating our players.

 

[beta_condition]

This thread is just great. Mitchell Lewis, a guy who a week ago couldn't get a game for a bottom 4 team that can't buy a goal, is now comparable to Naughton. Mitchell Lewis, so unproven that Hawthorn would rather play James Sicily as a forward instead of him, stacks up well against Naughton, a kid who nearly broke the record for most contested marks in just his 25th game. Amazing.

Have to pity the delusional mindset that some Hawthorn supporters have found themselves in. Copping mechanism I guess. Like the guy who gets dumped but doesn't want to accept that the relationship is over.

So amazingly better he averages a whopping .06 contested marks more and .2 goals more. Yea Id say they're very comparable.

 

[Cadillac]

Some of you really struggle to comprehend that the comparison to Naughton was purely statistically. They were almost identical this year.

Naughton is a better player at the moment but he had played more games and Lewis was always a bit of a project player that would take some time but i have no idea how anyone can possibly not rate him. Leading or second top goals in the VFL last year (CBF looking which it was) and has now come in and shown that he belongs at AFL level this year. He still needs to put on more size but as far as KPF players go he is progressing as well as most young ones in the AFL at the moment.

So you’re claiming your guy to be a “bit of a project player” yet he was drafted 12 months earlier than Naughton was. Not to mention that he was drafted as a forward. Naughton literally spent the entire season last year in defense finishing 4th in our best and fairest. And because of injury in the JLT this year in the final hitout was made to play up forward. If any of them was going to be seen as a project this year it was him. And FWIW I couldn’t care less if he was being compared to Naughton statistically. Just don’t try and claim the “project” card when the one you’re arguing against has literally switched to the other side of the ground and is playing a new role after playing all his junior footy as a defender. And also WAFL as a defender.

You think Naughton is CLEARLY the number 1 pick in his draft over Kelly... Don't think you should be taking shots at us for overrating our players.

I said that in a redraft between the 18 year old players who were drafted (Kelly was 23) that I’d have drafted Naughton #1(you were saying Stevenson was and is better) I was arguing against it. While also saying some teams would have selected Naughton over Kelly.

Not sure what you’re getting at though.
Don’t get sooky because I don’t rate the direction of your footy club. It’s just an opinion.

 

[footyfan1978]

This thread is just great. Mitchell Lewis, a guy who a week ago couldn't get a game for a bottom 4 team that can't buy a goal, is now comparable to Naughton. Mitchell Lewis, so unproven that Hawthorn would rather play James Sicily as a forward instead of him, stacks up well against Naughton, a kid who nearly broke the record for most contested marks in just his 25th game. Amazing.

Have to pity the delusional mindset that some Hawthorn supporters have found themselves in. Copping mechanism I guess. Like the guy who gets dumped but doesn't want to accept that the relationship is over.

Funniest thing about the Naughton thing is Hawks could have had him themselves if they were no so hellbent on trading out all those picks from 2016 and 2017 draft to ensure they got to the O'Meara deal. Naughton indeed could have been what Hawks picked in first round of 2017 if they had kept their 2017 future 1st round rather than trade it away in 2016 trade period.

It would be so much better to have Naughton and 4 or 5 other talented youngsters from those two draft periods and still have more speculative types like Mitchell Lewis you can always try out.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

So you’re claiming your guy to be a “bit of a project player” yet he was drafted 12 months earlier than Naughton was. Not to mention that he was drafted as a forward. Naughton literally spent the entire season last year in defense finishing 4th in our best and fairest. And because of injury in the JLT this year in the final hitout was made to play up forward. If any of them was going to be seen as a project this year it was him. And FWIW I couldn’t care less if he was being compared to Naughton statistically. Just don’t try and claim the “project” card when the one you’re arguing against has literally switched to the other side of the ground and is playing a new role after playing all his junior footy as a defender. And also WAFL as a defender.

I said that in a redraft between the 18 year old players who were drafted (Kelly was 23) that I’d have drafted Naughton #1(you were saying Stevenson was and is better) I was arguing against it. While also saying some teams would have selected Naughton over Kelly.

Not sure what you’re getting at though.
Don’t get sooky because I don’t rate the direction of your footy club. It’s just an opinion.

I said he was a project player because he was a raw kid who was always going to take time, coming in to the league he was never going to be ready to go from day 1. He has progressed amazingly well over the course of the past 3 years.

You are missing the entire point of the comparison, they are statistically producing very similar numbers yet one is being rated as one of the best young players in the league and the other is being talked about as just some spud. The gap between the two on output is a hell of a lot closer than the gap between how each of the two are rated.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Funniest thing about the Naughton thing is Hawks could have had him themselves if they were no so hellbent on trading out all those picks from 2016 and 2017 draft to ensure they got to the O'Meara deal. Naughton indeed could have been what Hawks picked in first round of 2017 if they had kept their 2017 future 1st round rather than trade it away in 2016 trade period.

It would be so much better to have Naughton and 4 or 5 other talented youngsters from those two draft periods and still have more speculative types like Mitchell Lewis you can always try out.

Disagree, we would not have been better with Naughton and 4 or 5 random talented youngsters than with Tom Mitchell, O'meara, Impey, Worpel.

 

[Cadillac]

Disagree, we would not have been better with Naughton and 4 or 5 random talented youngsters than with Tom Mitchell, O'meara, Impey, Worpel.

That’s everyone’s point though. You’re meant to be “better now” with those guys you brought in. Because they are ready made players. You traded away draft picks for elite talent to win now. And you’re sitting 12th.. it’s not working mate. This isn’t what was supposed to happen.