Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[beta_condition]

Funniest thing about the Naughton thing is Hawks could have had him themselves if they were no so hellbent on trading out all those picks from 2016 and 2017 draft to ensure they got to the O'Meara deal. Naughton indeed could have been what Hawks picked in first round of 2017 if they had kept their 2017 future 1st round rather than trade it away in 2016 trade period.

It would be so much better to have Naughton and 4 or 5 other talented youngsters from those two draft periods and still have more speculative types like Mitchell Lewis you can always try out.

Worpel, Moore, Ross, Mitchell, O'merea, Impey, Morrison, Lewis and Henderson are they players we picked up due to trading out that pick 7, so we gained our 3 best midfielders, hugely promsing Key Forward and an elite line breaker. Such bad trading right?

 

[beta_condition]

That’s everyone’s point though. You’re meant to be “better now” with those guys you brought in. Because they are ready made players. You traded away draft picks for elite talent to win now. And you’re sitting 12th.. it’s not working mate. This isn’t what was supposed to happen.

You're acting as if the players we've bought in are 30, they still have 8 years of elite football left.

 

[footyfan1978]

Disagree, we would not have been better with Naughton and 4 or 5 random talented youngsters than with Tom Mitchell, O'meara, Impey, Worpel.

You only disagree as the equation is wrong in your mind and random post without understanding context. You do not lose Tom Mitchell or Worpel to get those other talented youngsters to go with Naughton. You only lose O'Meara part in relation to Naughton plus 6 other possible draft pick opportunities you could have had during 2016 and 2017 drafts.
Mitchell, Naughton, Worpel, Tom Stewart, Willie Rioli, Luke Ryan etc etc could have all been yours to have and still have your other late draft picks you have used.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

That’s everyone’s point though. You’re meant to be “better now” with those guys you brought in. Because they are ready made players. You traded away draft picks for elite talent to win now. And you’re sitting 12th.. it’s not working mate. This isn’t what was supposed to happen.

Losing a Brownlow medalist and have very little football from our star recruit will do that, look i am not saying this is a sure thing to work at all but lets wait and see how it plays out before calling it a bust.

People are acting like it was this year that we needed to be contending. We still have 3-5 years at least of Mitchell, Wingard, O'meara, Sicily, Scully and these types of entering/being the prime of their career.

Just hypothetically if you were to add in Mitchell, a full season from Wingard, Coniglio, a top 6 pick from this year and our father son that is projected to go as a late first rounder. That would be back a much much improved team and most probably a top 8 team and who knows from there.

Now obviously that is not a lock to happen and may not even be likely but there are scenarios where we can go in to next season with a strong list that can contend in finals if things fall our way.

 

[footyfan1978]

Worpel, Moore, Ross, Mitchell, O'merea, Impey, Morrison, Lewis and Henderson are they players we picked up due to trading out that pick 7,

Wrong. You did not follow the trace of the picks given up. Only O'Meara and Impey have any connection to fallout of 7 draft picks given up during 2016 and 2017 draft periods due to the trades with Saints, Carlton and Suns to secure O'Meara.
Impey you probably still get trading pick 26 of 2017 draft if you wanted to. Naughton and 6 other potential draft youngsters is what you have missed out on to ensure you got O'Meara. It is why it was labelled selling the farm to get him.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

You only disagree as the equation is wrong in your mind and random post without understanding context. You do not lose Tom Mitchell or Worpel to get those other talented youngsters to go with Naughton. You only lose O'Meara part in relation to Naughton plus 6 other possible draft pick opportunities you could have had during 2016 and 2017 drafts.
Mitchell, Naughton, Worpel, Tom Stewart, Willie Rioli, Luke Ryan etc etc could have all been yours to have and still have your other late draft picks you have used.

You are also assuming Mitchell comes to us without us going after O'meara. Would he have still come to the club if we were about to enter a full rebuild? We could also have drafted Coffield or Clark instead of Naughton.

 

[Cadillac]

You're acting as if the players we've bought in are 30, they still have 8 years of elite football left.

O’meara 8 years of elite footy left on that dodgy knee? Impey? Elite footy?
Has Impey ever played any elite footy in his career? Is O’meara currently playing elite footy?.. Wingard capable of elite footy in patches but consistency has always dogged him.

 

[footyfan1978]

You are also assuming Mitchell comes to us without us going after O'meara

Tom Mitchell is a no brainer trade. Swans only getting pick 14 as the biggest cost what excellent trade value independent and before O'Meara trade worked on.
You had a lot of trades, that 2016 period. Nothing wrong with Mitchell trade at all. It is only because you sold the farm to get O'Meara next that you blown a great opportunity to get Tom Mitchell and still get plenty of talented youngsters in the draft during 2016 and 2017 that would have been a really balanced list management approach.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Tom Mitchell is a no brainer trade. Swans only getting pick 14 as the biggest cost what excellent trade value independent and before O'Meara trade worked on.
You had a lot of trades, that 2016 period. Nothing wrong with Mitchell trade at all. It is only because you sold the farm to get O'Meara next that you blown a great opportunity to get Tom Mitchell and still get plenty of talented youngsters in the draft during 2016 and 2017 that would have been a really balanced list management approach.

No that is not what i am saying, fair chance he does not come to us if we are going to do a full rebuild. No doubt part of the selling point to getting Tom to the club was the rebuild model we were taking. Of course we would still make the trade either way on our end but he would be every chance to go elsewhere if we did that.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

O’meara 8 years of elite footy left on that dodgy knee? Impey? Elite footy?
Has Impey ever played any elite footy in his career? Is O’meara currently playing elite footy?.. Wingard capable of elite footy in patches but consistency has always dogged him.

Does Mitchell come back 100% from his broken leg? A lot of players never look the same.

 

[Vindicater]

Whike I did chuckle alittle at Impey being called elite, some people need to at least watch him because he has developed into quite a nice player.

Good solid B grader.

 

[Cadillac]

Whike I did chuckle alittle at Impey being called elite, some people need to at least watch him because he has developed into quite a nice player.

Good solid B grader.

A solid B grader for sure. Nothing more. The elite comment was outrageous.

 

[La Dispute]

The word elite just gets thrown about far too often on Bigfooty, and in particular in this thread.

I wouldn’t even classify O’Meara as elite. Just a very good midfielder, who plays at a similar standard to Brad Crouch or Dom Sheed. He might improve a bit in the next few seasons and go up a notch or two, but he’s largely been playing at the same level for a while now.

 

[HeHateMe]

Whike I did chuckle alittle at Impey being called elite, some people need to at least watch him because he has developed into quite a nice player.

Good solid B grader.

A solid B grader for sure. Nothing more. The elite comment was outrageous.

Im not prepared to come out and call Impey elite. I need him to perform at his current level for a bit longer against more opposition.

Although people are sleeping on Impey. We need to revisit this discussion in 12 months.

 

[threesixpio]

The Hawks five best players against Collingwood were

Sicily (24)
Impey (23)
Lewis (20)
Worpel (20)
Hardwick (22)

Yeah... no youth.

And Jaegar was good too

???

Wasn’t he pick 76?

It’s the entire point of the thread.

yes - in defence of Bunk it was a question rather than just an opinion

Pick 76 = captain clunk

 

[threesixpio]

The word elite just gets thrown about far too often on Bigfooty, and in particular in this thread.

I wouldn’t even classify O’Meara as elite. Just a very good midfielder, who plays at a similar standard to Brad Crouch or Dom Sheed. He might improve a bit in the next few seasons and go up a notch or two, but he’s largely been playing at the same level for a while now.

Won’t get on the field
Lost his pace
Not quite elite yet

 

[threesixpio]

Im not prepared to come out and call Impey elite. I need him to perform at his current level for a bit longer against more opposition.

Although people are sleeping on Impey. We need to revisit this discussion in 12 months.

Anyone who wasn’t impressed by Impey on Friday is unfootbally

 

[La Dispute]

Won’t get on the field
Lost his pace
Not quite elite yet

Certainly haven’t got their money’s worth, that’s for sure.

Not sure who’s positing he’s lost his pace though? Still has some serious wheels.

His kicking skills have certainly been impacted by injury though.

 

[TylerDurden]

Impey's gone from being called a spud in here, to not quite elite. He's only 23.

Simpson sent Hutchings to him last week as a sign of respect.

Was embarrassing how many times he ran rings around the Pies forwards Fri night. A joy to watch.

 

[threesixpio]

Certainly haven’t got their money’s worth, that’s for sure.

Not sure who’s positing he’s lost his pace though? Still has some serious wheels.

His kicking skills have certainly been impacted by injury though.

Ha ha. My next one was

Still not worth it

 

[Samael]

Has Impey ever played any elite footy in his career?

He had a good game against Collingwood, therefore he must now be elite.

 

[La Dispute]

Ha ha. My next one was

Still not worth it

I’d subscribe to this.

The club parted with multiple first round draft picks, and used 3.2 mil salary cap space for effectively 3 years. (his first was a write-off, and the games he played, he was poor-very poor)

His production hasn’t been equivalent to what they’ve paid for him, if you’re going to look at his performance across the total duration of his contract, which would put him in the top bracket of players in the league.

It’s an average return on investment any way you look at it, but Hawthorn knew the risk in taking him on, and at very least he’s now playing out full seasons at a good level. Early on in the piece it looked liked they’d completely butchered the trade.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So where to from here Hawks?

Should the club be hitting the draft now, or continuing along the same lines - use this year’s first and second round picks on established talent?

Will they continue to ignore the pointy end of the draft?

 

[Jobe Watson]

So amazingly better he averages a whopping .06 contested marks more and .2 goals more. Yea Id say they're very comparable.

If Naughton was at Hawthorn, do you think he'd have only played 7 games for the year?

 

[beta_condition]

If Naughton was at Hawthorn, do you think he'd have only played 7 games for the year?

Did I say he was better than Naughton or equal?