Toast Mark O'Connor

[catempire]

Wow one play. There is a clip of zac smith shiimmying past mids in his one game this year. I could bring out half a dozen clips of menzel doing awesome run from behind tackles. It means nothing. Absolutely nothing.

And i said his defence has been excellent.

It’s a horrible take. But you are the king of them and I bow down before you.

 

[dazbroncos]

ow.... and table stats for the win.

GO Catters

 

[Seeds]

It’s a horrible take. But you are the king of them and I bow down before you.



View attachment 713841

Yep second from the top. Cos he is scared and always takes the safe option. Just like blicavs. And kolo also up high. Do you have a metres gained stat?

Sj was one of our best disposers of the ball in the past thirty years and his DE was attrocious. Cos he took risks.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yep second from the top. Cos he is scared and always takes the safe option. Just like blicavs. And kolo also up high. Do you have a metres gained stat?

Sj was one of our best disposers of the ball in the past thirty years and his DE was attrocious. Cos he took risks.

The important things for a defender are (a) safe disposal, and (b) metres gained in the chain.

 

[Seeds]

The important things for a defender are (a) safe disposal, and (b) metres gained in the chain.

True in most cases. But when all of them collectively suck at b then b becomes just as important. Go see the Be brave thread.

 

[Seeds]

ow.... and table stats for the win.

GO Catters

Think before you post Daz.

 

[catempire]

Yep second from the top. Cos he is scared and always takes the safe option. Just like blicavs. And kolo also up high. Do you have a metres gained stat?

Sj was one of our best disposers of the ball in the past thirty years and his DE was attrocious. Cos he took risks.

“His disposal is atrocious”

Own it Seedsy. Horrid take.

 

[moond0g]

“His disposal is atrocious”

Own it Seedsy. Horrid take.

I'm sorry, but you are being a bit over the top.

DE in and of itself doesn't prove anything. The notion that DE can be very high because a player is taking the easy to execute option is very valid.

I'm not trying to get involved in your dispute one way or another, but you'd have to admit that at least

 

[Max Milburn]

I'm sorry, but you are being a bit over the top.

DE in and of itself doesn't prove anything. The notion that DE can be very high because a player is taking the easy to execute option is very valid.

I'm not trying to get involved in your dispute one way or another, but you'd have to admit that at least

Not really. If you dispose of the ball efficiently, then your disposal is not atrocious.
What happens after that doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[moond0g]

Not really. If you dispose of the ball efficiently, then your disposal is not atrocious.
What happens after that doesn't have anything to do with it.

True. But DE takes no consideration of the relative difficulty of disposals. That's the point

 

[catempire]

I'm sorry, but you are being a bit over the top.

DE in and of itself doesn't prove anything. The notion that DE can be very high because a player is taking the easy to execute option is very valid.

I'm not trying to get involved in your dispute one way or another, but you'd have to admit that at least

Apology accepted.

A high DE is objectively incompatible with the claim made.

 

[Seeds]

“His disposal is atrocious”

Own it Seedsy. Horrid take.

Dont pretend DE is a stat declaring how good a disposer he is. If he is chipping it backwards to guys 20 metres on their own most of the time then he is going to have great DE and can still be an attrocious disposer. The fact Kolo and Blicavs is up there should give you a hint. Im betting Tom Lonergan used to rank highly as well. What do you think of his disposal?

The stat you need is average metres gained per possession multiplied by DE.

Put that together and see where he ranks. If he ranks high I will come out and claim Im utterly wrong.

 

[catempire]

Dont pretend DE is a stat declaring how good a disposer he is. If he is chipping it backwards to guys 20 metres on their own most of the time then he is going to have great DE and can still be an attrocious disposer.

Incorrect. Atrocious disposal implies the standard of disposal is substantially substandard. What you are talking about is possibly atrocious decision making but even that is unlikely given the whole team is doing the same thing so it is likely a coached phenomena.

The fact Kolo and Blicavs is up there should give you a hint. Im betting Tom Lonergan used to rank highly as well. What do you think of his disposal?

Well done. You have inadvertently stumbled on the fact that I presented a list of defenders. So we could compare like with like.

 

[nohairandfair]

he is a better player than Tuohy or bews...big fan

Not exactly an extravagant claim.

 

[moond0g]

A high DE is objectively incompatible with the claim made.

Incorrect. Atrocious disposal implies the standard of disposal is substantially substandard. What you are talking about is possibly atrocious decision making but even that is unlikely given the whole team is doing the same thing so it is likely a coached phenomena.

I don't really want to debate this. I actually think O'Connor is becoming a very good play, so it's somewhat a moot point. but your statistical assumptions just erk me a little haha.

The reality is, the DE is based on a binary outcome, i.e. was the disposal deemed effective or ineffective?

You're then making the assumption that the sample is homogeneous in every other way, i.e. no other factors influence whether a possession is deemed effective or ineffective.

When in reality we know that other covariates like whether the possession was contested or uncontested, the distance (long vs short kick), weather (wet vs dry), subjective 'difficulty', and other things, all influence whether a possession is deemed effective or not.

</rant>

 

[catempire]

You're then making the assumption that the sample is homogeneous in every other way, i.e. no other factors influence whether a possession is deemed effective or ineffective.

No I’m not. But thanks for trying.

 

[moond0g]

No I’m not. But thanks for trying.

So do you disagree that multiple factors can influence whether a disposal is classified as 'effective' or not?
and that these other factors are not considered in the DE stat?

 

[catempire]

So do you disagree that multiple factors can influence whether a disposal is classified as 'effective' or not?
and that these other factors are not considered in the DE stat?

I do not disagree.

 

[FredLeDeux]

So do you disagree that multiple factors can influence whether a disposal is classified as 'effective' or not?
and that these other factors are not considered in the DE stat?

That doesn't make any sense.
The DE stat is the one that classifies a disposal as "effective".
Unless you are setting up an alternative method of classification.

 

[Turbocat]

Where would Merrick sit in the table of irish recruits to have played the game? Potential is a dirty word but he could be very good in another couple of years so quick has been his development...

 

[catempire]

Where would Merrick sit in the table of irish recruits to have played the game? Potential is a dirty word but he could be very good in another couple of years so quick has been his development...

Somewhere between Stynes and Setanta.

 

[Turbocat]

Somewhere between Stynes and Setanta.

Id have thought between Pearce Hanley and Zac Tuohey ............ at least alphabetically..

 

[Turbocat]

On games....

Stynes 264
Kennelly 197
2e 179
Hanley 156
Wright 150 ...

MOC seems good enough to get to 100 games at least..

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Somewhere between Stynes and Setanta.

Might be worth getting Setanta in - a few of the boys need a kick up the arse at present.

 

[Willo_]

I reckon on the weekend just gone he had and won individual one on ones (or worst case halved the contest) against Gunston, Bruest and Poppy.... pretty incredible, quicker, bigger and stronger than he appears.
What a find.

Also more than capable of taking the game on when need be and backing himself in, he might play a little safe but he also doesn't often waste the ball or give it back... that is vital considering his inexperience.