Bluemour Discussion Thread XVII - Coniglio means Rabbit in Italian!

[Kramer1]

Bit harsh, even if he hasn’t played for two seasons. Technically Doc is strictly off field at the moment so is considered part of the coaching group rather than a player, AFL have given permission for that.

A Doc controlling the defence will be an added bonus next season, will make the coaches job much easier too.

You idiot. She meant doc as in doctor. Teague has his level 2 first aid, so we save bulk coin if he is team doctor too.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Could be director of coaching .......

 

[DangerousD]

Look at Betts stats in his last year at Carlton.

Very poor year.

Who would think being unhappy at work would have a detrimental effect on performance

 

[Coops93]

Hard judge.

He's not wrong, though. It's takes a fair amount of mental gymnastics to think that a guy who plays 1 or 2 games every 6 weeks is a valuable player.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Fits in with what my Crows contacts tell me.
There's a lot of friction out at West Lakes with Gibbs feeling he's been treated as a blow in, open to a move back to Carlton.

If that’s the case he 100% is a blow in and is proving them correct

 

[Blue and Blue]

Could be director of coaching .......

 

[Coops93]

I don’t believe structurally Teague has changed all that much I think he is just playing the best players in the right position, Murphy and curnow have been 2 of our best since he has taken over because they have been put back into the midfield full time gibbons as well getting more minutes around the footy. Would be very interesting to see where we would have been sitting if this happened from round 1

He's definitely played with the structure forward of the ball. The forwardline now compared to under Bolton is nothing close to the same.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Bit harsh, even if he hasn’t played for two seasons. Technically Doc is strictly off field at the moment so is considered part of the coaching group rather than a player, AFL have given permission for that.

A Doc controlling the defence will be an added bonus next season, will make the coaches job much easier too.

I believe MEB was referring to a Director of coaching. I agree. The money would be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Jabba73]

I will fight you and win easily

Can confirm

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I am surrounded by goobertrons.

 

[walshalloffamer]

I believe MEB was referring to a Director of coaching. I agree. The money would be better spent elsewhere.

Director of Coaching? We're not shooting a movie...

 

[Nori]

He's not wrong, though. It's takes a fair amount of mental gymnastics to think that a guy who plays 1 or 2 games every 6 weeks is a valuable player.

Charlie? Kreuzer? Docherty?

Trade them all.

 

[Coops93]

Charlie? Kreuzer? Docherty?

Trade them all.

Who said anything about trading anyone? But for arguments sake..

Kreuzer When he's on the field everyone knows we're better. Cuningham does not have that impact.
Charlie - Proven superstar, was being discussed as potentially the best player in the comp pre-season. Cuningham was not and has never been.
Docherty - All Australian and captain. Cuningham is not either of those or even close.

Cuningham has no proven impact on the team, only potential impact. I think we can all see he does add something different and something we lack, but he's never been a part of the team long enough to truly have any impact on the team. Cuningham does not belong in the same conversation with anyone you listed, it's an insult to them.

Again, the mental gymnastics required to think Cuningham has that level of impact is immense. The idea of what Cuningham can add to the team vs what he's actually added so far are universes apart.

 

[Tushay]

Who said anything about trading anyone? But for arguments sake..

Kreuzer When he's on the field everyone knows we're better. Cuningham does not have that impact.
Charlie - Proven superstar, was being discussed as potentially the best player in the comp pre-season. Cuningham was not and has never been.
Docherty - All Australian and captain. Cuningham is not either of those or even close.

Cuningham has no proven impact on the team, only potential impact. I think we can all see he does add something different and something we lack, but he's never been a part of the team long enough to truly have any impact on the team. Cuningham does not belong in the same conversation with anyone you listed, it's an insult to them.

Again, the mental gymnastics required to think Cuningham has that level of impact is immense. The idea of what Cuningham can add to the team vs what he's actually added so far are universes apart.

Hardly mental gymnastics: most players are unproven until they are proven.

Cunningham has some key attributes that will be very important to us: line breaking speed and a long, accurate kick.

Cunners is not in the 'never trade' basket but something of disproportionate value would have to be on the table.

 

[Coops93]

Hardly mental gymnastics: most players are unproven until they are proven.

Cunningham has some key attributes that will be very important to us: line breaking speed and a long, accurate kick.

Cunners is not in the 'never trade' basket but something of disproportionate value would have to be on the table.

To compare an unproven player to proven players like Kreuzer, Curnow and Doc yeah it does.

I'm not suggesting we trade him, I'd rather keep him unless it brings us someone like Papley. But I just think people are conflating his potential with his actual output and value to the team when he does play. The only thing I'm trying to say is that he's not a truly valuable player that we need in the team. He's not proven that ability yet, and he in no way should be compared the those guys above.

 

[Funk]

Who would think being unhappy at work would have a detrimental effect on performance

Re Betts.

Fair enough - just don’t be crap at your job and demand a big pay increase.

Fairly simple logic to understand.

 

[Kruezing]

Ritchie is much more talented than Papley ... hopefully Russell can get him playing consistently ...

 

[Nori]

Who said anything about trading anyone? But for arguments sake..

Kreuzer When he's on the field everyone knows we're better. Cuningham does not have that impact.
Charlie - Proven superstar, was being discussed as potentially the best player in the comp pre-season. Cuningham was not and has never been.
Docherty - All Australian and captain. Cuningham is not either of those or even close.

Cuningham has no proven impact on the team, only potential impact. I think we can all see he does add something different and something we lack, but he's never been a part of the team long enough to truly have any impact on the team. Cuningham does not belong in the same conversation with anyone you listed, it's an insult to them.

Again, the mental gymnastics required to think Cuningham has that level of impact is immense. The idea of what Cuningham can add to the team vs what he's actually added so far are universes apart.

The question about Cuningham's value as a player was in relation to whether he should be traded or not. I was arguing against trading him. This year from 8 games he's averaged 17 possessions, 1 goal and 1 goal assist per game. That's not bad for a medium forward.

Someone even suggested if we traded Cuningham for Papley we'd need to include an attractive pick. For the record Papley in 2019 averages 14 possessions, 1.4 goals and 0.7 goal assists each game and doesn't spend time running through the midfield like Cunningham.

So for me it's a question of do you think that Russell can get Cuningham's body conditioned for AFL and I reckon you'd have to back him in based on his record.

 

[Kruezing]

The question about Cuningham's value as a player was in relation to whether he should be traded or not. I was arguing against trading him. This year from 8 games he's averaged 17 possessions, 1 goal and 1 goal assist per game. That's not bad for a medium forward.

Someone even suggested if we traded Cuningham for Papley we'd need to include an attractive pick. For the record Papley in 2019 averages 14 possessions, 1.4 goals and 0.7 goal assists each game and doesn't spend time running through the midfield like Cunningham.

So for me it's a question of do you think that Russell can get Cuningham's body conditioned for AFL and I reckon you'd have to back him in based on his record.

Could not agree more ... 100% ...

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The question about Cuningham's value as a player was in relation to whether he should be traded or not. I was arguing against trading him. This year from 8 games he's averaged 17 possessions, 1 goal and 1 goal assist per game. That's not bad for a medium forward.

Someone even suggested if we traded Cuningham for Papley we'd need to include an attractive pick. For the record Papley in 2019 averages 14 possessions, 1.4 goals and 0.7 goal assists each game and doesn't spend time running through the midfield like Cunningham.

So for me it's a question of do you think that Russell can get Cuningham's body conditioned for AFL and I reckon you'd have to back him in based on his record.

I don’t know where you got your stats from but Papley is averaging 16 touches, 1.6 goals and the same amount of assists as Cuningham

 

[Nori]

I don’t know where you got your stats from but Papley is averaging 16 touches, 1.6 goals and the same amount of assists as Cuningham

Actually those stats I gave for Papley were over his career. AFL Tables have him as 15 disposals and 0.8 goal assists per game up to and including round 19, 2019. So not much different.

 

[Coops93]

The question about Cuningham's value as a player was in relation to whether he should be traded or not. I was arguing against trading him. This year from 8 games he's averaged 17 possessions, 1 goal and 1 goal assist per game. That's not bad for a medium forward.

Someone even suggested if we traded Cuningham for Papley we'd need to include an attractive pick. For the record Papley in 2019 averages 14 possessions, 1.4 goals and 0.7 goal assists each game and doesn't spend time running through the midfield like Cunningham.

So for me it's a question of do you think that Russell can get Cuningham's body conditioned for AFL and I reckon you'd have to back him in based on his record.

The other thing you have to consider then is that Papley is already at that level without the fitness question marks.

Sure you can hope that Cuningham gets there as well, and like you say Russell has a good record in this area, there's still no sure answer to it.

The other thing I'd say is that I don't think Cuningham and Papley are the same. Papley is a genuine small forward who can roll through the midfield from time to time. Cuningham is more naturally up the field than Pappy boy imo. I don't think one pushes the other out necessarily.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Actually those stats I gave for Papley were over his career. AFL Tables have him as 15 disposals and 0.8 goal assists per game up to and including round 19, 2019. So not much different.

I’m pretty sure it is 16 touches. But there is a huge difference between .9 goals a game and 1.6.
In saying that Cuningham’s stats are good for a young HFF. Someone playing Forward Flank and getting 20 touches and a goal a game is bloody handy to have and that’s what Cuningham should be able to bring. If they can get a goal and a half they are priceless

 

[Nori]

The other thing you have to consider then is that Papley is already at that level without the fitness question marks.

Sure you can hope that Cuningham gets there as well, and like you say Russell has a good record in this area, there's still no sure answer to it.

The other thing I'd say is that I don't think Cuningham and Papley are the same. Papley is a genuine small forward who can roll through the midfield from time to time. Cuningham is more naturally up the field than Pappy boy imo. I don't think one pushes the other out necessarily.

Yes, I agree with your points. Hopefully Cuningham still has up side from his performances in 2019 because he was scoring goals in a pretty dysfunctional forward line under Bolts, whereas Papley is probably at his level, but can do it consistently.

I really only had one point at the start of the discussion and that was I didn't want to trade Cuningham for Papley. I'd love to have them both in the side.

 

[Nori]

I’m pretty sure it is 16 touches. But there is a huge difference between .9 goals a game and 1.6.
In saying that Cuningham’s stats are good for a young HFF. Someone playing Forward Flank and getting 20 touches and a goal a game is bloody handy to have and that’s what Cuningham should be able to bring. If they can get a goal and a half they are priceless

Stats wise if you take the goals and the goal assists together Cuningham has 2.0 per game and Papley has 2.3.

You have to remember that Cuningham was playing in a team with a dysfunctional forward line (under Bolton) and was also spending time through the midfield. I'd like to see Cuningham play a few games under Teague to see if it makes any difference.

As I've said, I rate Papley highly and I want SOS to recruit him. The comparison was only to point out that Cuningham goes okay as well.