News Suns to ask for Pick 1 as a priority pick

[Blackas87]

I doubt they've had many years of profit, and have probably been kept alive through league funding. I doubt Toronto makes a profit either.


And the Phoenix Coyotes? Atlanta Thrashers?

If they aren’t making a profit and can’t afford players they get relegated just like they do in the English premier league. London got promoted last season.

Phoenix is owned by Alex Meruelo and Andrew Barroway.

Atlanta Thrashers were sold to True North Sports and entertainment and the Franchise moved to Winnipeg. Atlanta obviously not a viable location and currently don’t have a team, if you’re not making a profit you don’t have a team. Are you suggesting the Suns should move somewhere more viable?

 

[Peel67skin]

If they aren’t making a profit and can’t afford players they get relegated just like they do in the English premier league. London got promoted last season.

Phoenix is owned by Alex Meruelo and Andrew Barroway.

Atlanta Thrashers were sold to True North Sports and entertainment and the Franchise moved to Winnipeg. Atlanta obviously not a viable location and currently don’t have a team, if you’re not making a profit you don’t have a team. Are you suggesting the Suns should move somewhere more viable?

You look and sound like a smart person should put yourself up for AFL top jobs. Can't believe they put you behind Goodwin to coach Melbourne.

 

[Blackas87]

You look and sound like a smart person should put yourself up for AFL top jobs. Can't believe they put you behind Goodwin to coach Melbourne.

If I was coaching Melbourne the club would be asking for priority picks.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If they aren’t making a profit and can’t afford players they get relegated just like they do in the English premier league. London got promoted last season.

Yes, because clubs don't receive TV revenue and central funding from the league at all?

Phoenix is owned by Alex Meruelo and Andrew Barroway.

Atlanta Thrashers were sold to True North Sports and entertainment and the Franchise moved to Winnipeg. Atlanta obviously not a viable location and currently don’t have a team, if you’re not making a profit you don’t have a team. Are you suggesting the Suns should move somewhere more viable?

Fascinating. No I don't, because clubs are not privately owned here and aren't required to make a profit. We are not America and there's no point trying to compare us to them in terms of viability or structure.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If I was coaching Melbourne the club would be asking for priority picks.

By all means, it costs nothing to ask, but you'd get laughed out of the room.

 

[Stroppy]

What? How were the Suns not set up properly?

First 4 years
2011: 3 wins 56.3%
2012: 3 wins 60.8%
2013: 8 wins 91.7%
2014: 10 wins 93.7%

Suns were improving every year. What do the Suns do? Sack Guy McKenna and appoint Rocket Eade

2015: 4 wins 72.9%

But hey let’s blame the AFL for giving the Suns 9 of the first 15 picks in the 2010 draft, and a larger salary cap by $1million to poach the best player in the Comp (Gary Ablett) among others before free agency came in.

They did the Suns wrong, give the the Suns a priority pick.

Actually, I would agree that the Suns were given enough player concessions to get started. But as any good club will tell you, you also need everything off-field to be humming along at the same time.

And that was ballsed up big time. Rookie chairman, rookie football boss, rookie CEO, rookie coach, rookie captain, portables, but worst of all the lowest football department spending of any club, year after year after year. The lowest. Madness, and a lot of that is on the AFL.

Early doors the club was a house of cards built primarily on the on-field brilliance of Ablett and the natural talent of a few youngsters. But off-field was a shemozzle and those early player concessions were wasted.

Now we have a lot of the off-field things right including spending more than any other club on off-field player development and proper facilities.

What we lack now are enough good players. Yes, a lot of high draft picks in recent years. But we got picks in the 6-10 range for Prestia, O'Meara, and May, pick 3 for Lynch, and a 2nd rounder for Saad. Great. That is not an increase in talent.

Unless this new club in a non-football state can break the cycle of bringing in young players and sending them out again just as they start to get good, we will stay in the bottom 6 for a long long time. The only time we looked like getting out of the bottom 6 was by being able to pay the best player in the modern game twice as much as anyone else could afford. Can't do that now.

The idea behind setting up both GWS and the Suns in really difficult places to set up an AFL club was putting together a whole stack of talented young players that could see a future full of finals together so they would stick out the hard times and resist the strong pull of the 3 AFL states. That idea is still a good one. Time for the AFL to double down.

Actually, after writing all that, we are an absolute lock to get a pick 1 priority. Absolute lock.

 

[Blackas87]

Yes, because clubs don't receive TV revenue and central funding from the league at all?


Fascinating. No I don't, because clubs are not privately owned here and aren't required to make a profit. We are not America and there's no point trying to compare us to them in terms of viability or structure.

Of course they receive funding from the league through the tv revenue. The tv revenue comes from fans wanting to watch their club.

The English premier league was a breakaway league in 1992 from “the football league” (which has 3 divisions) because the top clubs didn’t want the tv revenue spread across 3 divisions to clubs that people weren’t watching. Basically the top clubs get the tv viewership, the top clubs get the tv revenue.


Of course there is no point comparing to American teams and leagues around the world, majority of teams are privately owned and are there to make a profit, even the NRL and A League clubs are privately owned. AFL clubs are non profit organisations.

My point was I don’t know any other league in the world that creates a team to grow the sport. There’s going to be many problems putting a team in a region where the sport isn’t popular, players don’t come from the region, staff don’t come from region, there aren’t enough fans and tv viewerships to fund themselves. Government Infrastructure such as transport and funding for training venues isn’t coming because it isn’t the focus of the region, teams in regions where a sport isn’t popular are going to struggle for many reasons.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

My point was I don’t know any other league in the world that creates a team to grow the sport.

Melbourne Storm is the obvious one. Super Rugby has also dabbled unsuccessfully in commercially-driven expansion of late.

American sports also regularly establish and move franchises with growing TV revenues in mind - see the repeated attempts to get a successful NFL team into LA, NBA expansion into Canada, etc. Yes, private owners theoretically turn a profit (or inflate their egos), but the rest of the league has to approve it, and do so from a financial perspective.

 

[Blackas87]

Melbourne Storm is the obvious one. Super Rugby has also dabbled unsuccessfully in commercially-driven expansion of late.

Melbourne Storm were privately created by news Corp for news Corps new competition the super league, during the super league war, along with the Adelaide Rams.

Once the Super league and ARL merged into the NRL the Storm were entered in the the NRL Comp. Adelaide Rams did not enter the NRL as only the Storm were able to be a viable business for News Corp.

Both teams weren’t created by the NRL to grow the the sport. The NRL did put up funding to keep the Adelaide Rams around and grow the sport in Adelaide.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

This is all very interesting but nothing to do with the Suns. If you want to continue discussing this I'd suggest posting in The Footy Industry.

 

[Blackas87]

This is all very interesting but nothing to do with the Suns. If you want to continue discussing this I'd suggest posting in The Footy Industry.

Agree we’ve gone way off topic.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Melbourne Storm were privately created by news Corp for news Corps new competition the super league, during the super league war, along with the Adelaide Rams.

Once the Super league and ARL merged into the NRL the Storm were entered in the the NRL Comp. Adelaide Rams did not enter the NRL as only the Storm were able to be a viable business for News Corp.

Both teams weren’t created by the NRL to grow the the sport. The NRL did put up funding to keep the Adelaide Rams around and grow the sport in Adelaide.

A "viable business" that reliably lost money for two decades? Yeah, nah. Storm only existed to grow the game in Victoria. Mr Bananas is right though, we're well off topic so I'll leave it here.

 

[Chris25]

If I'm in charge, I'm giving the Suns the #1 pick.

A mid or end of first round pick is a token offer, it's really not going to have much of an impact. It's an 18 year old who is probably 50/50 at making the grade. If you're serious, it has to be the top pick. I said it in another thread, but the best way to keep or attract star players is by winning. The best way of winning is with established A-grade talent. And outside of homesickness, the best way to attract this established talent is with a talented list capable of winning.

The AFL can't make players want to go to the Gold Coast, and throwing money at the problem will just result in another Gary Ablett situation where someone gets a quick pay day and then heads home. Continuing to inject talent is the way forward. And it's just a lucky coincidence that the top two guys are best friends who may well stick around. Getting more fringe guys like Horlin-Smith (Brandon Ellis and Hugh Greenwood for example) or state league players like Burgess into the club isn't going to do anything.

For me, the future pick trading is a nothing argument. You're not trading for a specific pick, the whole idea of trading the future is fluid. If it drops by a pick, then oh well. It's no surprise the first to complain publicly about this is the club with the highest traded pick. Carlton could have sacked their coach earlier in the season, gone on a winning streak and made finals. Adelaide wouldn't have predicted that when they made the trade. Things change. No, that's not a great comparison. But clubs know a priority pick is always a small chance, and a good football mind would surely have seen the Gold Coast as being in the frame for one and factored that into the mix. It's not a big surprise. Similarly, once Melbourne realised the situation their poor list management got them in and decided to start tanking the season, they should have factored the Gold Coast situation into that decision.

And it terms of fairness, the fairest thing is to give them the #1 pick. If they were to be given a mid first round pick, then I'm sure Adelaide won't be complaining anymore but then it's unfair to GWS and Brisbane who made future first round pick trades after that point. An end of first round priority pick is unfair to Brisbane, GWS, Sydney, Essendon and every other club who holds traded picks after then. A pick at the top of the draft is the 'fairest' because everyone is affected similarly.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Hopefully we've been putting a lot of work into Anderson since we realised how shite we are, and if they're best mates we'll just get both him and Rowell together when they leave GC in 2-3 years.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Hopefully we've been putting a lot of work into Anderson since we realised how s**t we are, and if they're best mates we'll just get both him and Rowell together when they leave GC in 2-3 years.

Lol as if anyone good wants to join Melbourne. Last big name player you got was Jeff White all those years ago from Freo.

Dees are simply not a destination club. Never have been really (Not trolling, just stating an historical fact)

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Lol as if anyone good wants to join Melbourne. Last big name player you got was Jeff White all those years ago from Freo.

Dees are simply not a destination club. Never have been really (Not trolling, just stating an historical fact)

Yeah because Jake Lever made the AA squad and then decided to go to Carlton instead

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Yeah because Jake Lever made the AA squad and then decided to go to Carlton instead

Jake Lever isn't a big name mate. The most famous thing he will be remembered for is that punch on with Tex Walker in half time at the 2017 GF

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Jake Lever isn't a big name mate. The most famous thing he will be remembered for is that punch on with Tex Walker in half time at the 2017 GF

Lol okay.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

LOL that article mentions the Suns have drafted 7 kids in the top 10 in the previous 3 drafts, but fails to mention one of those kids has already left.

Which supports the case that giving them an early PP wont help solve the problem anyway.

 

[Blackas87]

A "viable business" that reliably lost money for two decades? Yeah, nah. Storm only existed to grow the game in Victoria. Mr Bananas is right though, we're well off topic so I'll leave it here.

Yes way off topic.

But the Storm wouldn’t exist today without its current owners who saved the club. They came in with a 5 year plan to make the Storm a profitable business.

The NRL do not fund the Storm to keep a team in Melbourne. The Storm wouldn’t exist if it was up to NRL to fund them.

The entrepreneurs who saved Melbourne Storm

Who would buy a loss-making NRL team based in AFL-mad Melbourne?

www.afr.com

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Lol okay.

Actually like The Dees and hope you do well, but you know what I mean? Can't remember the last time the Dees managed to recruit an out and out superstar type like Judd or Tom Lynch ?

Mind you, I think a lot of it comes from the old toff establishment running your club for Decades, who refuse to advertise the MFC as an exciting, vibrant place to be (If you know what I mean)

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Actually, I would agree that the Suns were given enough player concessions to get started. But as any good club will tell you, you also need everything off-field to be humming along at the same time.

And that was ballsed up big time. Rookie chairman, rookie football boss, rookie CEO, rookie coach, rookie captain, portables, but worst of all the lowest football department spending of any club, year after year after year. The lowest. Madness, and a lot of that is on the AFL.

Early doors the club was a house of cards built primarily on the on-field brilliance of Ablett and the natural talent of a few youngsters. But off-field was a shemozzle and those early player concessions were wasted.

Now we have a lot of the off-field things right including spending more than any other club on off-field player development and proper facilities.

What we lack now are enough good players. Yes, a lot of high draft picks in recent years. But we got picks in the 6-10 range for Prestia, O'Meara, and May, pick 3 for Lynch, and a 2nd rounder for Saad. Great. That is not an increase in talent.

Unless this new club in a non-football state can break the cycle of bringing in young players and sending them out again just as they start to get good, we will stay in the bottom 6 for a long long time. The only time we looked like getting out of the bottom 6 was by being able to pay the best player in the modern game twice as much as anyone else could afford. Can't do that now.

The idea behind setting up both GWS and the Suns in really difficult places to set up an AFL club was putting together a whole stack of talented young players that could see a future full of finals together so they would stick out the hard times and resist the strong pull of the 3 AFL states. That idea is still a good one. Time for the AFL to double down.

Actually, after writing all that, we are an absolute lock to get a pick 1 priority. Absolute lock.

I dont disagree with that but thats a retention issue not a draft capital issue the way to improve it is to improve the clubs facilities, player welfare, and build a club culture and future prospects that players will want to come to and stay into. Giving you pick 2 is not going to move the needle on that.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Actually like The Dees and hope you do well, but you know what I mean? Can't remember the last time the Dees managed to recruit an out and out superstar type like Judd or Tom Lynch ?

Mind you, I think a lot of it comes from the old toff establishment running your club for Decades, who refuse to advertise the MFC as an exciting, vibrant place to be (If you know what I mean)

How often do 'superstar types' change club? Obviously when we've been shithouse for so long it's not likely, but I don't think it happens for any club often enough for my offhand joke about Anderson to matter.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Which supports the case that giving them an early PP wont help solve the problem anyway.

No it doesn't. As has been stated time and time again, two guys who have a very close existing relationship and go interstate together are less likely to leave. See McCluggage and Berry, or the Scott brothers.

I dont disagree with that but thats a retention issue not a draft capital issue the way to improve it is to improve the clubs facilities, player welfare, and build a club culture and future prospects that players will want to come to and stay into.

They've spent the last three years doing precisely that. Do keep up.

 

[Peel67skin]

I dont disagree with that but thats a retention issue not a draft capital issue the way to improve it is to improve the clubs facilities, player welfare, and build a club culture and future prospects that players will want to come to and stay into. Giving you pick 2 is not going to move the needle on that.

Surely GCS Craig Cameron listened to you and get cooked Murdoch and slower than turtle GHS last year.