News Suns to ask for Pick 1 as a priority pick

[Pure_Ownage]

Surely GCS Craig Cameron listened to you and get cooked Murdoch and slower than turtle GHS last year.

That wasnt my point. My point was help them fix retention not give them more picks. Giving more picks to a side that cant retain players is like giving an alcoholic the keys to the bottle shop. GCS need help but the right sort of help.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

No it doesn't. As has been stated time and time again, two guys who have a very close existing relationship and go interstate together are less likely to leave. See McCluggage and Berry, or the Scott brothers.


They've spent the last three years doing precisely that. Do keep up.

Then you are talking about better drafting strategy not higher picks. What they are doing to improve retention is not working and the stats back that up. Please keep up.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Then you are talking about better drafting strategy not higher picks. What they are doing to improve retention is not working and the stats back that up. Please keep up.

You're the one not keeping up. They can't do the particular strategy of taking two best mates in this instance if they don't have the picks to get both Rowell and Anderson.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

You're the one not keeping up. They can't do the particular strategy of taking two best mates in this instance if they don't have the picks to get both Rowell and Anderson.

Yes because Rowell and Anderson are the only 2 vic metro players in the draft who are mates with each other and mcluggage and berry were the only 2 vic country players in that dradt and were both picked top 5. They can execute that strategy whatever picks they have with smarter recruitment.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yes because Rowell and Anderson are the only 2 vic metro players in the draft and mcluggage and berry were the only 2 vic country players in that dradt and were both picked top 5. They can execute that strategy whatever picks they have with snarter recruitment.

What, you think everyone from the same geographic region are all best mates? Bloody hell, we'd never have conflict, quarrels or crime if that were the case.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yes because Rowell and Anderson are the only 2 vic metro players in the draft and mcluggage and berry were the only 2 vic country players in that dradt and were both picked top 5. They can execute that strategy whatever picks they have with smarter recruitment.

In addition, the issue with Gold Coast isn't their inability to keep late round draft picks around, it's about their inability to keep top talent around. In this case we're talking about keeping either Rowell or Anderson around long term, and they're more likely to do so if they have their best mate there. Do either of them have another best mate that hasn't been reported on who is talented enough to be drafted in this pool? Please do share this information with us if there is someone like that.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

What, you think everyone from the same geographic region are all best mates? Bloody hell, we'd never have conflict, quarrels or crime if that were the case.

Haha no. Im just saying of all the reasons to give them a PP the notion that they can only draft best mates with picks 1 and 2 and not anywhere else in the draft is very flimsy at best.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Haha no. Im just saying of all the reasons to give them a PP the notion that they can only draft best mates with picks 1 and 2 and not anywhere else in the draft is very flimsy at best.

Okay, who is Rowell/Anderson's other best mate in this draft pool? I'm afraid I haven't seen that info reported anywhere.

 

[Blackas87]

You're the one not keeping up. They can't do the particular strategy of taking two best mates in this instance if they don't have the picks to get both Rowell and Anderson.

So they should only get a priority pick because 2 top players are best mates?

If Rowell and Andersen weren’t mates, should GC get a priority pick?

By the way GC could trade up to get pick 2 if they have a strategy of drafting mates. They had the opportunity to draft the King brothers last year so not sure this a strategy of theirs.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So they should only get a priority pick because 2 top players are best mates?

If Rowell and Andersen weren’t mates, should GC get a priority pick?

You're not listening, are you? I and others made a full case earlier for Gold Coast getting a priority pick, on the grounds of being terrible for several years and needing some assistance with getting their rebuild going, so they can have sustained success in 3-5 years time.

The context that the point about mates was said in, is several people responding to the suggestion of Gold Coast deserving a priority pick, by moaning that if one is awarded, the player will just walk after a couple of years. But this is not an issue in the specific context we're talking about. If anything, it will help retention for the reasons outlined above. Do you understand now?

By the way GC could trade up to get pick 2 if they have a strategy of drafting mates. They had the opportunity to draft the King brothers last year so not sure this a strategy of theirs.

Oh sure, with what? Pick 15? Don't make me laugh.

Last year they took Lukosius and Rankine who were both mates who went to high school together. They were the highest rated players on their board too no doubt, well above Max King. At pick 6 their choices were Bailey Smith who's a far bigger flight risk, Ben King or a steep decline in talent. Neither you nor I know what they would have learned from Ben in a private interview, but I would imagine that they heard enough to feel comfortable enough to take him knowing that Max went to St Kilda. Seeing as they replaced their off field staff entirely in the last 2-3 years, I wouldn't assume they were simply incompetent, the evidence isn't there to suggest that yet.

 

[Blackas87]

You're not listening, are you? I and others made a full case earlier for Gold Coast getting a priority pick, on the grounds of being terrible for several years and needing some assistance with getting their rebuild going, so they can have sustained success in 3-5 years time.

The context that the point about mates was said in, is several people responding to the suggestion of Gold Coast deserving a priority pick, by moaning that if one is awarded, the player will just walk after a couple of years. But this is not an issue in the specific context we're talking about. If anything, it will help retention for the reasons outlined above. Do you understand now?


Oh sure, with what? Pick 15? Don't make me laugh.

Last year they took Lukosius and Rankine who were both mates who went to high school together. They were the highest rated players on their board too no doubt, well above Max King. At pick 6 their choices were Bailey Smith who's a far bigger flight risk, Ben King or a steep decline in talent. Neither you nor I know what they would have learned from Ben in a private interview, but I would imagine that they heard enough to feel comfortable enough to take him knowing that Max went to St Kilda. Seeing as they replaced their off field staff entirely in the last 2-3 years, I wouldn't assume they were simply incompetent, the evidence isn't there to suggest that yet.

I have been listening, have you been? they have used 7 top 10 picks in the last 3 drafts plus pick1 coming this year. They already have plenty of young talent on their list, getting young talent on their list isn’t the issue.

They can future trade, 2020 1st round pick for pick 2. If they want best mates go and make a deal.

With Lukosius not signing beyond 2020, are we sure drafting mates together is helping retention at the Suns?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I have been listening, have you been? they have used 7 top 10 picks in the last 3 drafts plus pick1 coming this year. They already have plenty of young talent on their list, getting young talent on their list isn’t the issue.

They need more. One of those picks has already left. I've explained this before and yet you come out with the same tired argument once again, which tells me you haven't been listening.

They can future trade, 2020 1st round pick for pick 2. If they want best mates go and make a deal.

Why, when they deserve a priority pick?

With Lukosius not signing beyond 2020, are we sure drafting mates together is helping retention at the Suns?

Ever been told not to count chickens before they've hatched? What makes you so sure Lukosius will not re-sign in the next year?

 

[Blackas87]

They need more. One of those picks has already left. I've explained this before and yet you come out with the same tired argument once again, which tells me you haven't been listening.

So they have still have retention issues, have you been listening?

Why, when they deserve a priority pick?

They don’t deserve a priority pick. They have the same amount of wins as Carlton over the last 6 years. Carlton’s 2018 was worse than the Suns this year. Did Carlton deserve a priority pick? They future traded this years 1st round pick to bring in the talent they wanted, why can’t the Suns do the same?

Ever been told not to count chickens before they've hatched? What makes you so sure Lukosius will not re-sign in the next year?

Did I say he won’t re-sign? I said are we sure drafting mates together will help retention at the Suns? Why don’t the Suns find out if that Strategy works for them before assuming it will solve their problems.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So they have still have retention issues, have you been listening?

I don't believe I ever said they didn't have retention issues. Another straw man argument from you.

They don’t deserve a priority pick. They have the same amount of wins as Carlton over the last 6 years. Carlton’s 2018 was worse than the Suns this year.

That's a mighty fine opinion you have there. We'll see if the AFL agrees with you.

They future traded this years 1st round pick to bring in the talent they wanted, why can’t the Suns do the same?

The Suns aren't obligated to do what you want them to do. If they think it's in their interests to trade away the 2020 pick, maybe they'll do so. But I doubt they'll see it as being in their interests, because teams usually don't part with players who are worth the #1 overall pick.

Did I say he won’t re-sign? I said are we sure drafting mates together will help retention at the Suns? Why don’t the Suns find out if that Strategy works for them before assuming it will solve their problems.

Your point is predicated on the fact Lukosius has not yet re-signed. Therefore if he does, you will be conclusively proven wrong. There are other clubs out there besides the Suns, some of whom have tried this strategy and made it work. Are the Suns some special case where proven strategies don't apply?

 

[Blackas87]

I don't believe I ever said they didn't have retention issues. Another straw man argument from you.

Did I say you did? I’m telling you and so are others, retention is their problem, getting young talent on their list is not the problem. Again you’re not listening and don’t understand their problem.

The Suns aren't obligated to do what you want them to do. If they think it's in their interests to trade away the 2020 pick, maybe they'll do so. But I doubt they'll see it as being in their interests, because teams usually don't part with players who are worth the #1 overall pick.

its not what I want, I’m saying if they want Rowell and Anderson go out and get them, make a deal.

Your point is predicated on the fact Lukosius has not yet re-signed. Therefore if he does, you will be conclusively proven wrong. There are other clubs out there besides the Suns, some of whom have tried this strategy and made it work. Are the Suns some special case where proven strategies don't apply?

I’m saying retention is their problem, others are saying drafting mates together will mean they will stick together. Why do people think that’s the case? Jesse Hogan was best mates with James Harmes at Melbourne, Jesse didn’t stay because of his best mate, there is more to life than your best mate.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Did I say you did?

You implied it above.

I’m telling you and so are others, retention is their problem, getting young talent on their list is not the problem. Again you’re not listening and don’t understand their problem.

And I've told you over and over, drafting mates helps with retention. They've already overhauled their off field set up and spent much more on player welfare. There's really not much more they can do.

I’m saying retention is their problem, others are saying drafting mates together will mean they will stick together. Why do people think that’s the case?

Because it helps, and has been proven to over the years. I've given you two examples already and I'm sure there are many others.

Jesse Hogan was best mates with James Harmes at Melbourne, Jesse didn’t stay because of his best mate, there is more to life than your best mate.

Did Hogan and Harmes grow up together? Were they best friends as juniors? Did them moving interstate together help both of them settle because it brought part of their support network over? Someone with a similar experience that they could rely on, taking a little bit of their mutual experience in Western Australia to their new home? Because I know Harmes was born in Melbourne and came from Dandenong Stingrays, did he live in Perth in the time between those events?

 

[Blackas87]

You implied it above.


And I've told you over and over, drafting mates helps with retention. They've already overhauled their off field set up and spent much more on player welfare. There's really not much more they can do.


Because it helps, and has been proven to over the years. I've given you two examples already and I'm sure there are many others.


Did Hogan and Harmes grow up together? Were they best friends as juniors? Did them moving interstate together help both of them settle because it brought part of their support network over? Someone with a similar experience that they could rely on, taking a little bit of their mutual experience in Western Australia to their new home? Because I know Harmes was born in Melbourne and came from Dandenong Stingrays, did he live in Perth in the time between those events?

I didn’t, I’ve been telling you retention is their problem. Getting talent on their list isn’t a problem.

Did Jack Scrimshaw stay at the Suns because of his mates? Mates before he was at the Suns.

 

[Damo T]

I didn’t, I’ve been telling you retention is their problem. Getting talent on their list isn’t a problem.

Did Jack Scrimshaw stay at the Suns because of his mates? Mates before he was at the Suns.



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It did. 3 out of the four boys have resigned.

 

[Blackas87]

It did. 3 out of the four boys have resigned.

Why didn’t Scrimshaw? The only first round pick not at the club that drafted him that year. Why are the Suns the only club that couldn’t keep its player.

 

[Damo T]

Why didn’t Scrimshaw? The only first round pick not at the club that drafted him that year. Why are the Suns the only club that couldn’t keep its player.

Why did the other 3 resign?

 

[Blackas87]

Why did the other 3 resign?

They got paid

 

[Damo T]

They got paid

Hope so. Good mates can afford to have a game of golf together on their time off.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

They got paid

Would you give it a rest ?

I would suggest you get yourself emotionally ready for Gold Coast getting picks 1 and 2, because it is almost certain now that they will get it.

Also it's a bit rich of a Melbourne fan to take pot shots at all the mistakes Gold Coast have made, I could write an entire encyclopedia on all the mistakes the Dees have made as a football club since sacking Norm Smith.

 

[Blackas87]

Would you give it a rest ?

I would suggest you get yourself emotionally ready for Gold Coast getting picks 1 and 2, because it is almost certain now that they will get it.

Also it's a bit rich of a Melbourne fan to take pot shots at all the mistakes Gold Coast have made, I could write an entire encyclopedia on all the mistakes the Dees have made as a football club since sacking Norm Smith.

lmao. I’ve stated in this thread, to you I don’t care about Rowell or Anderson. Young, Serong, Ash are the perfect players for Melbourne.

I’ve stated I don’t believe in the draft at all. The whole thing should be scrapped. The NRL don’t have a draft, The A league doesn’t have a draft. Why does the AFL need a draft.

Watts, Trengove, Grimes, Morton, Gysberts, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Tapscott all first round picks that didn’t choose to go to Melbourne. Those talented players got their careers ruined by going to a club they didn’t choose. No one’s career should be put in the hands of others. It’s why I don’t believe in the draft, it’s why the Suns shouldn’t get a priority pick, like Melbourne shouldn’t of.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

View attachment 729928

Referring to whom specifically? Mates for how long?

I’ve stated I don’t believe in the draft at all. The whole thing should be scrapped. The NRL don’t have a draft, The A league doesn’t have a draft. Why does the AFL need a draft.

And now I know it's useless discussing anything with you. You're a VFL navel gazer with no appreciation of the struggle it is to keep players at northern clubs. The draft is necessary to keep expanding the game into NSW and Queensland and prevent the big four clubs permanently being at the top. It's truly bewildering that you can't see that.