Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2019

[Partridge]

I hate to be a stickler...... but only one of those GFs was against a tenant.
The difference between now and then is 1; we have a ground that should be seeing the first 2 weeks of finals, and 2; we were so much ahead of the competition during those years (outside 1 or 2 who could compete) it didn't matter where we played, we'd win.
I know the old adage is win anywhere against anyone, but if a home final is the difference between making a GF or bombing out against a tenant (and a 70/20 against crowd) then I know which I'd prefer...

I meant all finals. As it was playing Richmond at the MCG in a Qualifying Final that caused such gnashing of teeth and rending of garments on here, I though all finals applied. We beat Collingwood in Prelims in 2007 and 2009, and Hawthorn in the Qualifying in 2011. All MCG tenants.

Worse, and far more recently, we played Hawthorn at the MCG in the Qualifying in 2016. We finished 2nd, they finished 3rd. There was not a murmur of complaint. Why not? It was exactly the same circumstances as 12 months later.

I still think it wasn’t the venue that was the issue. It was Richmond daring to not be easybeats anymore that people hate. And still do.

 

[Partridge]

This is my point exactly i just want the AFL to be consistent and admit they don't care about fairness
I am actually glad we get to play finals at the MCG just don't like double standards

If the argument is about the AFL’s hypocrisy i completely agree. My point is they’re not going to change so just ignore it and win anyway.

 

[Cats_R_Cool_4_Ever]

Makes me feel like some bacon

Bacon for dinner it is!

 

[you pick one]

Seeing as we beat Collingwood - in finals, and at the MCG - en route to premierships in 2007, 2009, and 2011, I’m not sure why it’s any kind of concern.

Exactly....I believe GMHBA Stadium meets that criteria.

Back in the day the ground didn't come into play for me,the only time a half back seen the other end of the ground was when you changed ends.LOL.

 

[Baudolino]

Worse, and far more recently, we played Hawthorn at the MCG in the Qualifying in 2016. We finished 2nd, they finished 3rd. There was not a murmur of complaint. Why not? It was exactly the same circumstances as 12 months later.

Not sure I understand what point you think you're making here. You're not even debating the actual principle of the matter, you're just pointing out a pseudo-hypocrisy you've identified as if that counts as some kind of gotcha.

What does the fact that there were very few complaints when we played Hawthorn in 2016 have to do with the legitimacy of the argument being made by Cats fans? Are you suggesting that because we didn't raise the point back then, that we are for some unknown reason committed to remaining silent on the issue? Moreover, why does it strike you are so surprising that there should be a paradigm shift in the attitude among fans towards the situation? Opinions change over time and there's nothing wrong with that. There's clearly been some consciousness-raising amongst the fanbase over the last two years as people have come to realise how utterly, utterly absurd the status quo is when it comes to finals ground choice, and how Geelong is on the wrong end of the inequities of that status quo. Hence the shift in attitude.

Here's a better way to reframe what you said:

"We played Hawthorn at the MCG in the Qualifying in 2016. We finished 2nd, they finished 3rd. There was not a murmur of complaint. Why not? We SHOULD have complained just like we did 12 months later."

 

[Mad_Hatter]

I meant all finals. As it was playing Richmond at the MCG in a Qualifying Final that caused such gnashing of teeth and rending of garments on here, I though all finals applied. We beat Collingwood in Prelims in 2007 and 2009, and Hawthorn in the Qualifying in 2011. All MCG tenants.

Worse, and far more recently, we played Hawthorn at the MCG in the Qualifying in 2016. We finished 2nd, they finished 3rd. There was not a murmur of complaint. Why not? It was exactly the same circumstances as 12 months later.

I still think it wasn’t the venue that was the issue. It was Richmond daring to not be easybeats anymore that people hate. And still do.

Nah I don't think so, atleast for me.
My issue with that game was the RFC sending out tweets telling their fans to buy up the Cats ticket allocation, then the umpires telling Cotchin "since it's your home game, you call the toss"...
It looked very manufactured by the AFL to get a desired result, THAT'S my issue.
2007-2011 was far easier for Cats fans to get to the game, it's now atleast another 2 hours travel (being conservative) so far too many just won't bother, especially being a Friday night game.
I don't consider the venue or opposition an issue, never have, I DO have issue with the ability of the "home" fans being able to actually make the game and not going out for a "home" final to a 70-20 crowd.

 

[Munich]

Can’t remember too many bitching about it from 2007-2011. How we won three flags (against MCG tenants too) I’ll never know.

Were the saints an MCG tenant back then?

Honestly can't remember.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Were the saints an MCG tenant back then?

Honestly can't remember.

Nah they were dome-ies.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Were the saints an MCG tenant back then?

Honestly can't remember.

No, in fact in 2009 the Saints did not play a game at the MCG until round 22. They didn't seem to fare too badly in that game nor the next 3 at the MCG despite that, however.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

The BRIS Vs RICH game will be a different story next week. RICH won't be on their cheat ground for the first time in two months. It will be a lot closer, and I wouldn't be that surprised if the Lions turn it around.

 

[Munich]

No, in fact in 2009 the Saints did not play a game at the MCG until round 22. They didn't seem to fare too badly in that game nor the next 3 at the MCG despite that, however.

I suppose looking at the sides we did beat in qual and prelim finals, there would be a couple of MCG tenants in there, Collingwood multiple times as well.

 

[Partridge]

Nah I don't think so, atleast for me.
My issue with that game was the RFC sending out tweets telling their fans to buy up the Cats ticket allocation, then the umpires telling Cotchin "since it's your home game, you call the toss"...
It looked very manufactured by the AFL to get a desired result, THAT'S my issue.
2007-2011 was far easier for Cats fans to get to the game, it's now atleast another 2 hours travel (being conservative) so far too many just won't bother, especially being a Friday night game.
I don't consider the venue or opposition an issue, never have, I DO have issue with the ability of the "home" fans being able to actually make the game and not going out for a "home" final to a 70-20 crowd.

Fair enough. Sorry dumb question, why was it easier then to get to the game then? Would be the same now wouldn't it?

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Fair enough. Sorry dumb question, why was it easier then to get to the game then? Would be the same now wouldn't it?

Trains.
V/Line can now no longer go to Richmond for MCG games, and never will again unless they completely change the line.

 

[Partridge]

Here's a better way to reframe what you said:

"We played Hawthorn at the MCG in the Qualifying in 2016. We finished 2nd, they finished 3rd. There was not a murmur of complaint. Why not? We SHOULD have complained just like we did 12 months later."

Depends on your point of view. You think we should have complained. Fair enough.

I don't think it matters - not in 2016, not in 2017, not now - and is completely irrelevant to the outcome.

If that's pseudo-hypocrisy (whatever that is) so be it.

 

[Partridge]

Trains.
V/Line can now no longer go to Richmond for MCG games, and never will again unless they completely change the line.

Ah cool fair enough. Yes that sounds like an intelligent change.

 

[cats_09]

Fair enough. Sorry dumb question, why was it easier then to get to the game then? Would be the same now wouldn't it?

I can't talk for 07 to 09 as such, but I know from about 2010 or 2011 (when I was finally able to afford a membership), that Vline was running footy special trains through to Richmond St and after the match they had 3 services from Richmond back to Geelong.

Last year they stopped running the trains through to Richmond (it's to do with the line works & stuff), so it means having to get off at Southern Cross & making ones own way to the MCG. It's not as bad before the match; obviously it can get busy closer to match time & depending on Metro trains, but it's getting home after matches that can be harder especially as it can mean potentially changing 2 trains just to get to Southern Cross (not all trains from Richmond or Jolimont will go to Southern Cross, sometimes they will stop at Flinders St & go back the same direction they came from)

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Ah cool fair enough. Yes that sounds like an intelligent change.

It sucks for those who don't like to drive.
It sounds like it wouldn't take much longer, but from personal experience, in a big MCG game, it's 8 hours door to door (25 mins other side of Geelong) without any mucking around, straight to the game and straight back.
Used to be 4.5/5 hours.

 

[Munich]

Trains.
V/Line can now no longer go to Richmond for MCG games, and never will again unless they completely change the line.

And what's wrong with getting off at flinders/southern cross? It's a 10 min tram...

 

[cats_09]

And what's wrong with getting off at flinders/southern cross? It's a 10 min tram...

Pre-game when people are getting to the game at different times isn't so bad - post game when 60 or 70k are leaving and a good number all heading in the same direction, it's a lot slower

 

[Munich]

Pre-game when people are getting to the game at different times isn't so bad - post game when 60 or 70k are leaving and a good number all heading in the same direction, it's a lot slower

No different for the people coming from Ballarat or Bendigo.

If that's honestly the excuse I'm shook.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

And what's wrong with getting off at flinders/southern cross? It's a 10 min tram...

Because it isn't.
Firstly time is taken changing from the train to either another train or a tram (and it isn't 10 minutes), then you need to factor in the fact coming home is no longer an express train straight from richmond, you end up having to travel to Southern Cross for a train an hour after those specials would have left, and factor in the fact they stop a heap more times.
It's an extra 3 hours for anyone who lives in Geelong, more if you are one who likes to have pre-game dinner or post-game drinks.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

No different for the people coming from Ballarat or Bendigo.

If that's honestly the excuse I'm shook.

GEELONG football club. Regardless those trains would also have gone directly to Richmond, they can no longer.
It's absolutely a reason, the numbers are very telling.

 

[Baudolino]

I don't think it matters - not in 2016, not in 2017, not now - and is completely irrelevant to the outcome.

The belief that home ground advantage isn't a real thing is contradicted by every data point you could possibly wish to name. The statistical evidence is both overwhelming and undeniable.

It's not just AFL. It's literally every single sport in which home and away grounds exist. Take soccer as one example. A few years ago someone did a breakdown of the statistics pertaining to the 64 biggest leagues around the world, drawing upon 80,000 games. These were the findings:



But honestly, you could play this game with any professional sport. The same is true of all of them. To suggest that home ground advantage is irrelevant is to deny reality.

 

[Munich]

Because it isn't.
Firstly time is taken changing from the train to either another train or a tram (and it isn't 10 minutes), then you need to factor in the fact coming home is no longer an express train straight from richmond, you end up having to travel to Southern Cross for a train an hour after those specials would have left, and factor in the fact they stop a heap more times.
It's an extra 3 hours for anyone who lives in Geelong, more if you are one who likes to have pre-game dinner or post-game drinks.

I used to catch the train all the time and we never had the luxury of a direct line to Richmond.

The number 70 tram runs direct along flinders to the G, plus extra 70a trams for footy games. It takes 5 mins from Flinders St station, perhaps add 10 if you're coming from Southern Cross as you need to walk down Spencer St first.

That's a poor excuse for not attending I'm afraid.

 

[Gunf]

I see GWS vs Dogs is at Giant stadium... Again double standards from AFL