Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

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The Donners said:
Firstly, Duryea is bog average. Even bottom 6 players win premierships.

Mitchell VFL apprenticeship? Please.

I’ll give you Breust even though he was coming off a broken leg when he was drafted.
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Mitchell won the J J Liston.

Admittedly he played 11 games and got 31 votes (10 x 3 votes, 1 x 1 vote - a major letdown)... but he got his start there.

Most of our drafted players spend some time at Box Hill. And go back to Box Hill from time to time to work on things. O'Brien and Lewis did. Hardwick did. Sicily did. Shiels did (because he was still in high school).

I can go looking if you'd like, or you can accept that a heap of our drafted players spend a fair bit of time in their first year or 2 at Box Hill.
 
TheFourPillars said:
Nope that is only for Shiel hawthorn supporters have never said anything about pulling out going after lynch and cogs
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Actually I think the writing was on the wall when Kennett came out last Saturday night and had a go at Gil for meddling in free agency. That was when I stopped thinking it would happen.

Pretty sure one of our posters said the day before that Carlton were out of the running too.
 

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matey said:
Hawks system of serving an apprenticeship versus no system at most other clubs!

Many of the soft mids at Bombers wouldn’t get a game at the Hawks or would be regularly dropped until they can prove that they can put their head over the ball playing for BH first.
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With the talk of petracca I noticed his stats werent unlike James Cousins. of course that's just numbers not quality. Cousins not always dominating in the Box Hill Midfield either
 
I see Hawthorn supporters are in full denial mode.

The mail going around everywhere (except the Dingley wasteland, apparently) in the lead up was that Conigs was settled in Sydney and was most likely going to stay. GWS were happy to let him do his due diligence and talk to other clubs because they were confident he wouldn't leave. And he didn't.

Hawthorn supporters were led a merry dance by their ITKNothings and are now trying to rationalise why it fell apart. Your club isn't the 22-year-old supermodel anymore. It's 36 with two kids and a cigarette addiction.
 
RUNVS said:
B: J.Scrimshaw, J.Frawley, J.Sicily
HB: B.Hardwick, B.Stratton, C.Nash
C: R.Henderson, J.O’Meara, T.Scully
HF: P.Puopolo, T.O’Brien, I.Smith
F: L.Breust, J.Gunston, B.McEvoy
FOLL: J.Ceglar, L.Shiels, J.Worpel
I/C: S.Burgoyne, D.Howe, C.Wingard, O.Hanrahan

This was Hawthorn's round 23 team and the highlighted players are over 30. To be honest it isn't quite as many players as I originally thought it would be.
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Ten of that team were traded (mostly the midfield), the rest drafted. Makes a bit of a mockery of the title. in 2015, the team had seven, but they made up seven of the 17 players who played three premiership
Its not unlike whats being going on at hawthorn since 2010

24 Ben Stratton 17 Brian Lake 12 James Frawley
HB: 14 Grant Birchall 6 Josh Gibson 9 Shaun Burgoyne
C: 10 Bradley Hill 5 Sam Mitchell 26 Liam Shiels
HF: 33 Cyril Rioli 25 Ryan Schoenmakers 16 Isaac Smith
F: 22 Luke Breust 2 Jarryd Roughead 28 Paul Puopolo
Foll: 7 Ben McEvoy 15 Luke Hodge (c) 3 Jordan Lewis
Int: 4 Matt Suckling 8 Taylor Duryea 20 David Hale
19 Jack Gunston
 
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Jobe Watson said:
I see Hawthorn supporters are in full denial mode.

The mail going around everywhere (except the Dingley wasteland, apparently) in the lead up was that Conigs was settled in Sydney and was most likely going to stay. GWS were happy to let him do his due diligence and talk to other clubs because they were confident he wouldn't leave. And he didn't.

Hawthorn supporters were led a merry dance by their ITKNothings and are now trying to rationalise why it fell apart. Your club isn't the 22-year-old supermodel anymore. It's 36 with two kids and a cigarette addiction.
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Ironing
 
HairyO said:
Mitchell won the J J Liston.

Admittedly he played 11 games and got 31 votes (10 x 3 votes, 1 x 1 vote - a major letdown)... but he got his start there.

Most of our drafted players spend some time at Box Hill. And go back to Box Hill from time to time to work on things. O'Brien and Lewis did. Hardwick did. Sicily did. Shiels did (because he was still in high school).

I can go looking if you'd like, or you can accept that a heap of our drafted players spend a fair bit of time in their first year or 2 at Box Hill.
Click to expand...
Is playing about 10 senior games in your first year an apprenticeship? Mitchell was fat so couldn’t play out a full season.

Re O’Brien. I said they became good after VFL time. Jury is still out.
 
Jobe Watson said:
I see Hawthorn supporters are in full denial mode.

The mail going around everywhere (except the Dingley wasteland, apparently) in the lead up was that Conigs was settled in Sydney and was most likely going to stay. GWS were happy to let him do his due diligence and talk to other clubs because they were confident he wouldn't leave. And he didn't.

Hawthorn supporters were led a merry dance by their ITKNothings and are now trying to rationalise why it fell apart. Your club isn't the 22-year-old supermodel anymore. It's 36 with two kids and a cigarette addiction.
Click to expand...

Why did Gil have to throw in all the extra Ambassador money?

Why did GWS have to make it a 7 year deal when I bet you they wanted it to be 5 years?

We had someone months ago say his Aunt said he was staying. Does that guy count as ITK?

The Donners said:
Is playing about 10 senior games in your first year an apprenticeship? Mitchell was fat so couldn’t play out a full season.

Re O’Brien. I said they became good after VFL time. Jury is still out.
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Hodge was way fatter and he managed 15 games first year.
 
Jobe Watson said:
I see Hawthorn supporters are in full denial mode.

The mail going around everywhere (except the Dingley wasteland, apparently) in the lead up was that Conigs was settled in Sydney and was most likely going to stay. GWS were happy to let him do his due diligence and talk to other clubs because they were confident he wouldn't leave. And he didn't.

Hawthorn supporters were led a merry dance by their ITKNothings and are now trying to rationalise why it fell apart. Your club isn't the 22-year-old supermodel anymore. It's 36 with two kids and a cigarette addiction.
Click to expand...
He stayed at the Giants, i couldn't care less about the reason. We move on and look to improve in the trade period, nice to see the same old Essendon supporters still obsessed with this club though.
 
The Donners said:
Firstly, Duryea is bog average. Even bottom 6 players win premierships.

Mitchell VFL apprenticeship? Please.

I’ll give you Breust even though he was coming off a broken leg when he was drafted.
Click to expand...

Yaeh, I was surprised too when Duryea and sucking were given a lot of credit for Bulldogs making finals
 

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The Donners said:
Firstly, Duryea is bog average. Even bottom 6 players win premierships.
Click to expand...
pfft, 78% efficiency when you're kicking the ball 72% of your disposals(2015 stats) is not easy to do.

Bloke played 63/76 games during the threepeat years, was more than serviceable, even played some ripper individual finals games most notably 2015 prelim against freo.

Been great for the dogs this year, at his best he is a very solid defender and very effective with the ball.

If some bloke called Blake Hardwick hadn't rolled around at the same time Taylor suffered a form slump/down year, he'd likely still be a hawk.
 
FairKouta said:
Hawks should be going all in on Cameron why is Whitfield the number target ?
They need Cameron more than Whitfield. Clarko has a good system just need conversion. Go hard at the Coleman medalist.
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Why in gods name would Cameron, or Whitfield for that matter go to Hawthorn ?

I mean really this is getting ridiculous.
 
Jobe Watson said:
I see Hawthorn supporters are in full denial mode.

The mail going around everywhere (except the Dingley wasteland, apparently) in the lead up was that Conigs was settled in Sydney and was most likely going to stay. GWS were happy to let him do his due diligence and talk to other clubs because they were confident he wouldn't leave. And he didn't.

Hawthorn supporters were led a merry dance by their ITKNothings and are now trying to rationalise why it fell apart. Your club isn't the 22-year-old supermodel anymore. It's 36 with two kids and a cigarette addiction.
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very true, but it gets better or worse, if you go for Hawthorn

Hawthorn seem to have heaps of salary cap room, very much like what North had/have.

As per the EBA 95% of that TPP needs to be spent. In 2019 that amount is $ 12.1 m of the TPP of $ 12.76 m,

The problem is, as clubs like the hawks and the roos, do not have great young players coming through, they need to spend this money on free agents. As the best free agents keep rejecting them, namely, Dustin Martin, Tom Lynch, Coniglio, Whitfield, Kelly, even Shiel, it means that the top dollars are spent on less than A grade footballers, and players past their best, or that have injury histories and hence more risk, players like Polec, Scully, Vickery, Wingard, Patton, Pittard, Hall ect.

It gets even worse, because the top clubs, let their fringe and overpaid to performance players go to these middle of the road clubs, in doing so they protect their own clubs and free up their TPP so they can retain their own elite top shelf talent, and in Richmond s case, even attract A greade free agents like Tom Lynch for less than market prices.

This is exactly what is being done with Patton, Scully, LLoyd, Miles, Ellis ect.

It is a self perpetuation of mediocrity that will only be stopped if you draft and retain you own talent, because no legit A grade free agent will ever go to a middle of the road club ubless you pay him maybe 50% above market wages, even then it is a long shot.
 
I'm afraid the Hawks and Clarko don't know what they're doing reading all this. :tired:

Would be so much easier to stay positive if only they had a track record and some bona fides to fall back on.

#saveus
 
MinerBoy said:
I'm afraid the Hawks and Clarko don't know what they're doing reading all this. :tired:

Would be so much easier to stay positive if only they had a track record and some bona fides to fall back on.

#saveus
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Big Footy know how to turn our club around.

Hit the Draft like Carlton andMelbourne !!
 
MinerBoy said:
I'm afraid the Hawks and Clarko don't know what they're doing reading all this. :tired:

Would be so much easier to stay positive if only they had a track record and some bona fides to fall back on.

#saveus
Click to expand...
We need Trav20 to repost his “blueprint for success” that everyone would soon be mimicking to taste the success that Melbourne have recently had.
 
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