Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Wojcinski]

Hawks have assembled a number of quality players in the last couple years that will take them up the ladder next year and that will be at the club for the next 5-7 years. And without access to the elite end of the draft! Future is bright. I would be more worried about the Cats with Kelly gone and Danger/Selwood/Ablett all close to the end of their careers.

So you don't want to talk about the topic of this thread I assume? Just seems weird to make claims and then when asked about them you deflect to my team instead. I'm happy with how my teams going at the moment but that isn't what this topic is about.

 

[Wojcinski]

So we beat Geelong with only 2 good players? Doesnt bode well for you lot.

I said younger players, in reference to matey's post "Last two months Hawks wins have been on the back of its younger players. "

Don't strawman me.

 

[ChappyUK]

Hawks have assembled a number of quality players in the last couple years that will take them up the ladder next year and that will be at the club for the next 5-7 years. And without access to the elite end of the draft! Future is bright. I would be more worried about the Cats with Kelly gone and Danger/Selwood/Ablett all close to the end of their careers.

Selwood maybe. Danger has at least 4 left. Kelly’s value back could set us up for the future via draft or trade.

 

[Wojcinski]

Selwood maybe. Danger has at least 4 left. Kelly’s value back could set us up for the future via draft or trade.

Don't forget 3 rising star noms, two of them finishing in the top 5 for voting... all the while sitting top of ladder.

But less about Geelong as it's not a Geelong thread and more about Hawthorn's supposed younger players that have been dominating for two months.

 

[HairyO]

I said younger players, in reference to matey's post "Last two months Hawks wins have been on the back of its younger players. "

Don't strawman me.

What age is "younger" ?

22? 26? 30? Burgoyne had 8 years to go when he turned 30.

 

[Wojcinski]

What age is "younger" ?

22? 26? 30? Burgoyne had 8 years to go when he turned 30.

I don't know, I was asking matey

 

[HairyO]

I don't know, I was asking matey

Our "younger" players (I figure anyone who without injury has at least 5 or 6 years ahead of them):
Worpel
Sicily
Lewis
Hardwick
Mitchell
O'Meara
Impey
Scrimshaw
Howe
Nash
And probably Henderson who seems to be just like a fine wine.

 

[matey]

Selwood maybe. Danger has at least 4 left. Kelly’s value back could set us up for the future via draft or trade.

Fair enough if you use the picks or trade properly which is never guaranteed.

 

[matey]

I don't know, I was asking matey

What’s the use trying to communicate with someone that thinks that Worpel is just good. He is one of the best young mids in the game! A young gun. Probably Hawks future captain.

Thank you Geelong for passing on him 3 times.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Jobe Watson is melting on the autopsy thread, geez that trade win they were gloating about has gone sour. Shiel couldn't hit the backside of a barn.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Imagine being so obsessed with me.

Hawthorn supporters so triggered about not making finals with the oldest list in the league that they have to turn this thread into an off-topic Essendon discussion thread. Sad. Don't you guys have enough threads about us on your own board?

 

[Wojcinski]

What’s the use trying to communicate with someone that thinks that Worpel is just good. He is one of the best young mids in the game! A young gun. Probably Hawks future captain.

Thank you Geelong for passing on him 3 times.

You still haven't answered my question, you just keep deflecting away from it to talk about Geelong for some reason

 

[matey]

You still haven't answered my question, you just keep deflecting away from it to talk about Geelong for some reason

Who does Worpel play for? Talk about deflection!

There’s 200+ pages on my thoughts and what many other Hawk fans think re the topic thread. Go waste your time and revisit them because I would only waste my time trying to answer your question and reason with a salty Cats fan that has clearly got it in for the Hawks. If you think that Worpel is just good well I guess that all the other players at Hawthorn are crap! Get it.

 

[Wojcinski]

Who does Worpel play for? Talk about deflection!

There’s 200+ pages on my thoughts and what many other Hawk fans think re the topic thread. Go waste your time and revisit them because I would only waste my time trying to answer your question and reason with a salty Cats fan that has clearly got it in for the Hawks. If you think that Worpel is just good well I guess that all the other players at Hawthorn are crap! Get it.

I was literally just trying to talk about the subject of this topic. You keep bringing up Geelong.

Pretty sure that average will drop a fair bit in a couple weeks time and maybe you need to start watching other games. Last two months Hawks wins have been on the back of its younger players. And one of the best from Geelong Falcons you gotta be happy with that!

You don't think other clubs will have retirees. No doubt Worpel is good, but the Hawks haven't bottomed out yet. Which other younger players contributed over the last 2 months? Lewis played well vs Geelong, who else?

I just don't know why you won't answer my question?

 

[TylerDurden]

Essendon’s elite draft picks has delivered little they are still miles away from the 5th best team. McGrath, Heppell, Parish and acquiring Shiel last year ....... that would have to be one of the softest midfield groups I have ever seen assembled at the Bombers. In finals footy gets shown up especially. They won’t win a final for another 10 years playing bruise free footy like that. After bottoming out this year Hawks rebuild will have it back playing finals next year ..... Bombers out! They should trade their first draft pick for Wines or someone else that has a heart. Thank goodness cricket and Euro PGA golf was on last night.

What first rounder?

 

[4THAWN]

I was literally just trying to talk about the subject of this topic. You keep bringing up Geelong.



I just don't know why you won't answer my question?

what about <70 gamer dan howe, who had Joel Selwood put on him playing a negating forward role that didn't even work.

TOB has finally come on after 50 odd games, was solid down back for the first part of the year in a CHB role, and then swung forward kicking 12 goals in 5 games, and showing he can be a serious aerial threat.

Is sicily young enough for you?

What about blake hardwick. He'll be a good chance of backing up last year's 2nd place in the BnF with a top 5 in the BnF this year as a 22 year old.

 

[Wojcinski]

what about <70 gamer dan howe, who had Joel Selwood put on him playing a negating forward role that didn't even work.

TOB has finally come on after 50 odd games, was solid down back for the first part of the year in a CHB role, and then swung forward kicking 12 goals in 5 games, and showing he can be a serious aerial threat.

Is sicily young enough for you?

What about blake hardwick. He'll be a good chance of backing up last year's 2nd place in the BnF with a top 5 in the BnF this year as a 22 year old.

Howe and Sicily will be 25 when 2020 starts and TOB will be 26, hardly considered 'younger' players. Hardwick is a good one though

 

[4THAWN]

Howe and Sicily will be 25 when 2020 starts and TOB will be 26, hardly considered 'younger' players. Hardwick is a good one though

So what, you're saying 23/24 is when you cut-off a younger player.
-Hardwick, Cousins, Glass, Golds, Greaves, Hanrahan, Jiath, Jones, Koschitzke, Lewis, Moore, Morrison, Nash, Reeves, Ross, Scrimshaw, Walker, Worpel

So we've got 18 players who are all under 23/24 next year. There's most definitely some good players here. Bolded are my picks for "most likely to make it/already made it".

Geelong's list of young players looks like this
-Brownless, Clark, Cockatoo, Constable, Fogarty, Guthrie, Henry, Jarvis, Jones, Kennerly, Kreuger, Miers, Narkle, O'Connor, Okunbor, Parfitt, Parsons, Ratugolea, Schlensog, Simpson, Tarca.

You've got 21 players under 23/24 next year. Not gonna try be an expert on your list, but I'd guess this is roughly what the best players look like bolded

You've got good young players too, but I'd say theres not much between these 2 groups as wholes. Maybe advantage hawthorn, maybe advantage Geelong, but I dont know a lot of these Geelong kids so I can't really say.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

So what, you're saying 23/24 is when you cut-off a younger player.
-Hardwick, Cousins, Glass, Golds, Greaves, Hanrahan, Jiath, Jones, Koschitzke, Lewis, Moore, Morrison, Nash, Reeves, Ross, Scrimshaw, Walker, Worpel

So we've got 18 players who are all under 23/24 next year. There's most definitely some good players here. Bolded are my picks for "most likely to make it/already made it".

Geelong's list of young players looks like this
-Brownless, Clark, Cockatoo, Constable, Fogarty, Guthrie, Henry, Jarvis, Jones, Kennerly, Kreuger, Miers, Narkle, O'Connor, Okunbor, Parfitt, Parsons, Ratugolea, Schlensog, Simpson, Tarca.

You've got 21 players under 23/24 next year. Not gonna try be an expert on your list, but I'd guess this is roughly what the best players look like bolded

You've got good young players too, but I'd say theres not much between these 2 groups as wholes. Maybe advantage hawthorn, maybe advantage Geelong, but I dont know a lot of these Geelong kids so I can't really say.

You highlighted 4 players yet to debut and left Parfitt unmarked? Surprising.

 

[TallyHawk]

Imagine being so obsessed with me.

Hawthorn supporters so triggered about not making finals with the oldest list in the league that they have to turn this thread into an off-topic Essendon discussion thread. Sad. Don't you guys have enough threads about us on your own board?

Not obsessed, you simply humour me. Anyway it’s Dodoro’s time to shine again (fist pump)


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jobe Watson]

Not obsessed, you simply humour me. Anyway it’s Dodoro’s time to shine again (fist pump)


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Would you like an autograph?

I get DMs from Hawthorn supporters all the time saying that I am the reason they log into BigFooty every day. And now I know why: I have a fan club.

 

[4THAWN]

You highlighted 4 players yet to debut and left Parfitt unmarked? Surprising.

I don't reckon he's that good, and would have thought Narkle will take his spot in the future. As i said not an expert on Geelong's list.

 

[WWSD]

What happens if the Hawks use pick 11 in this years draft and trade it’s 2020 first round pick for a first round pick in this years draft. Does that count as ignoring the elite end? Come draft time Hawthorn could have 3 picks inside the top 30 and there is the possibility of 1-2 players being traded out.

If Hawthorn can get Carlisle via a trade then he’s exactly the defender they need. In 2019 the Hawks ranked 3rd in points conceded and 1st in contested marks. Carlisle would free up Sicily who could become Gibson MKII.

We haven’t even seen the best of Scrimshaw, Worpel, Hardwick, Lewis etc.

Expect a better output from O’Meara, Wingard, Scully, Gunston, Breust and Sicily. There is upside. Finals in 2020 is a possibility especially with the likelihood of an easier fixture and the return of Mitchell.

 

[Spook]

Interestingly, letting overpaid players compared to performance used to be what the hawks where known for and what helped them build their premierships

Letting Williams, Anderson, Lisle, Hartung, Savage, Suckling where allowed to leave in order to pay players like Roughead, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis ect

Now Hawthorn is doing the opposite being a net importer of B grade talent like, Vickery, Wingard, Scully Impi, Henderson ect

Henderson may have been B grade when we got him but defiatley A grade now.

 

[Roddy]

Wow, there is MUCH Hawk Derangement Syndrome in this thread...

 

[HairyO]

Howe and Sicily will be 25 when 2020 starts and TOB will be 26, hardly considered 'younger' players. Hardwick is a good one though

Players play forever these days. Properly managed they can all play in to their 30s.

Ruckmen generally take to mid 20s to come good. KPF and KPD early to mid 20s.

Clubs dont need quality youth. They need quality players.

And the definition of youth that most seem to have simply doesnt matter. Clubs rarely do well if stacked with kids.